News flash: the war in Iraq is NOT a war against terror

scubadoo

Active Member
Amen to this editorial.........
We can now certify Iraq as disarmed, even if the materials once declared by the Saddam regime and never accounted for have still not been found. Why does this certified disarmament upset people so much? Would they rather have given Saddam the benefit of the doubt? Much more infuriating about the current anti-Chalabi hysteria is this: He turns up in Washington with a large delegation of Iraqi democrats, including a female Shiite ex-Communist, several Sunni dignitaries from the "hot" provinces, and the legendary Abdul Karim al-Muhammadawi, who led a genuine insurgency among the Marsh Arabs for 18 years. And the American left mounts a gargoyle picket line outside and asks silly and insulting questions inside, about a question that has already been decided. What a travesty this is. Not only do the liberal Democrats apparently want their own congressional votes from 1998 and 2002 back. It sometimes seems that they are actually nostalgic for the same period, when Saddam Hussein was running Iraq, and there were no coalition soldiers to challenge his rule, and when therefore by definition there was peace, and thus things were more or less OK. Their current claim to have been fooled or deceived makes them out, on their own account, to be highly dumb and gullible. But as dumb and gullible as that?
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
Um, by the way, your articles ar not proof or evidence. They're articles, written by a person with an objective and a slant, just like every article for and against. Besides, it really doesn't matter, we were supposed to be fighting a war on terror, in response to 9/11. Instead we left that war, and tried to tie Iraq the the immediate problem. Have you forgotten that Iraq banned Bin Laden? That they were not connected with Al Qaida? If we were looking for a "bad" man dictator to take out, to make the people safer, or even a country that had the capacity of being dangerous and was compiling the resources to be a threat, then we should have been many other places in the world before Iraq. It was supposed to be about terroism. What ever happened to that war I wonder.
Simply bring something which states all or some of the above is wrong...with the exception of the last post l..I just found that interesting regarding the last two sentences.
You have a quote directly from a weapons inspector..plus the head genius which stated he fully expected us to find hidden WMD once we invaded.
I never knew the war on terror was just concerned about those responsible for 9/11.....I thought that was the wakup call..to get those responsible, plus others that would aid,plot, provide financila assistnace or commit another act such as 9/11.
Are you proposing we wait for another body count/attack here in the US before stopping others from doing the same?

I seem to have forgotten what a swell guy Saddam is/was....
 

jones

Member
What I'm nostalgic for is the time when almost the entire world didn't hate us. When it was safer for us to travel abroad. In the war on terror, a war where the enemy is hiding in countrys all across the world including our own. Support form the rest of the world is extremely important. Without help from the all across the world, how are we to weed out those terrorist cells effectively? This administration has taken us from having unprecedented support around the world immediately pre-9/11 to having unprecedented hatred around the world now. In the war on terror, diplomacy and logic are an incredible benefit. Not blindly waving our guns at a not so immanent possible future threat that i reapeat, was not connected to 9/11. I also like the broad classification of the liberal left. Not all democrats pretended to support the war in Iraq due to political pressure. Some people just cant get away from the obvious partisan bashing.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
Didn't we think something was going to break just before the 04 election?

Some liberals and democrats actually beleived we had captured Osama and he would be produced right before the 2004 election.
Again, it is just a hunch on my part.....I could be 100% wrong. I do believe we will be hearing some additional "stuff" in the near future....just a hunch ***)
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
Yes, I'll respond by saying that of course many many bad dicisions have been made throughout history. That does not make it right and proper to comit the morally reprehensible acts again.
And was your support for that administration the same?
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
Didn't we think something was going to break just before the 04 election?

Now that I think about it..it was Heinz Kerry that predicted Osama would be caught just before the election.
 

jones

Member
Originally Posted by jones
Some people just cant get away from the obvious partisan bashing.

Just thought I would post a quote too.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
There seems to be a few posters in this thread that beleive the war on terror only pertains to 9/11 and those repsonsible. I give you the following and perhaps it will help with memory loss:
Address to a Joint Session of Congress and the American People
United States Capitol
Washington, D.C.
9:00 P.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Speaker, Mr. President Pro Tempore, members of Congress, and fellow Americans: ...................
Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated. (Applause.)
 

jones

Member
Originally Posted by jones
In the war on terror, a war where the enemy is hiding in countrys all across the world including our own. Support form the rest of the world is extremely important. Without help from the all across the world, how are we to weed out those terrorist cells effectively? This administration has taken us from having unprecedented support around the world immediately pre-9/11 to having unprecedented hatred around the world now. In the war on terror, diplomacy and logic are an incredible benefit. Not blindly waving our guns at a not so immanent possible future threat that i reapeat, was not connected to 9/11.
So, you werent refering to me right.
and pre-9/11 should have been post 9/11, sorry.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
1. Numerous stockpiles of chemical protection suits were found.
2. The Iraqis NEVER complied to the Arms Inspectors. Give them more time some said... Good heavens, in 10 years I could personally look under every rock in Iraq. Saddam wasn't going to comply, ever.
3. Saddam supported palestinian terrorists.
4. Since we have invaded Iraq we've seen: Egypt allow for more Democracy, Lybia announce the were abandoning their WMD program, democratic votes in Iraq and Afghanistan, Pakistan continuing to "reform" to some degree, etc. The war on terrorism is global. You've just got to be willing to see it.
5. Not a single attack on US soil. This is the biggest one. Anyone wonder why that is? Could it be that all of those "foreign" fighters killed in Iraq had plans 3 years ago to be blowing up school buses and buildings throughout our homeland?
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
What I'm nostalgic for is the time when almost the entire world didn't hate us.....
How old are you? Since when has "the world" not hated us? I mean I think I read once about a 3 month period in 1844 where the critcism of the USA kind of slowed down, but...
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
Scuba, you are very compelling with your references....however, if those references were absolutely true, why on earth does not The President go on national TV with all of his experts at hand and lay it out for us and the world? The silence is thick, and telling, IMO. Is he above answering to the citizens? What is it? He has admitted he made a mistake, so who are we to argue with The President? Why does everyone feel the need to argue about all the other reasons to go to war in the absence of WMBs?
We need to justify the war because of the lack of WMBs is the answer. Afterall, we have to have a "cause" to go to war since we are not imperialists. Is anyone going to say that the President did not acknowledge that he was wrong about WMBs?

I can understand and respect the views of many regarding the cause factor in your statement. My own personal view ...these known groups have already gone on record regarding their hatred for us...and their mission....no secret.
The question is....do you shoot while they are loading their gun...or after they fire and hit someone?
Me....I beleive we shoot before we are shot.....given the position they have taken and communicated.
My position...the war is justified........terrorist state. Whether one needs a stockpile that is 10 stories high of WMDs to justify is up to each individual.
Saddam had the waeapons...they were moved or have yet to be discovered ...I'm convinced of it. I understand others need more compelling evidence.
IMO...there has been enough documented evidence to support the existence of these weapons pre-war and as the war continues. One would have to totally discount many discoveries and pass them off as "fairy tales".
Why has the President has not made this an issue?
He is lacking in many areas........ :help:
 

jones

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
1. Numerous stockpiles of chemical protection suits were found.
No one said that Iraq never had chemical programs, thats obvious.
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
2. The Iraqis NEVER complied to the Arms Inspectors. Give them more time some said... Good heavens, in 10 years I could personally look under every rock in Iraq. Saddam wasn't going to comply, ever.
And Iraq was the only country to not comply with a UN resolution? Didn't the U.S. itself forgo the UNs wishes on this issue?
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
3. Saddam supported palestinian terrorists.
Thats a local issue in the middle east, not a broad world wide terror plot. And he's not the only one who supported the palestinians.
Originally Posted by 1journeyman

4. Since we have invaded Iraq we've seen: Egypt allow for more Democracy, Lybia announce the were abandoning their WMD program, democratic votes in Iraq and Afghanistan, Pakistan continuing to "reform" to some degree, etc. The war on terrorism is global. You've just got to be willing to see it.
You really take comfort in Libyas announcement? You really believe theyre not crawling with terrorists who hate us? And the supposed democratic process in Iraq and Afghanistan is a joke. The situation in Afghanistan is horrible. Democracy can not be put in place by a war initiated by an outside force. Both the Sudis and the Kurds have said that they want us to leave. If democracy is to take hold it will only happen if the people of Iraq step up and make it happen, not because we forced it down their throat.
Originally Posted by 1journeyman

5. Not a single attack on US soil. This is the biggest one. Anyone wonder why that is? Could it be that all of those "foreign" fighters killed in Iraq had plans 3 years ago to be blowing up school buses and buildings throughout our homeland?
Hmm, thats convenient, make assumptions about reasons for something that didnt happen
 

jones

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
How old are you? Since when has "the world" not hated us? I mean I think I read once about a 3 month period in 1844 where the critcism of the USA kind of slowed down, but...
I know you dont belive that we were more well liked before the war in Iraq.
 

aw2

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
I know you dont belive that we were more well liked before the war in Iraq.
I was in the military and in the Middle East YEARS before this war broke out and even some after it broke out.
I can say, with 1000% conviction, without a single doubt, as God as my witness.....they've always hated us.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
What I'm nostalgic for is the time when almost the entire world didn't hate us. When it was safer for us to travel abroad. In the war on terror, a war where the enemy is hiding in countrys all across the world including our own. Support form the rest of the world is extremely important. Without help from the all across the world, how are we to weed out those terrorist cells effectively? This administration has taken us from having unprecedented support around the world immediately pre-9/11 to having unprecedented hatred around the world now. In the war on terror, diplomacy and logic are an incredible benefit. Not blindly waving our guns at a not so immanent possible future threat that i reapeat, was not connected to 9/11. I also like the broad classification of the liberal left. Not all democrats pretended to support the war in Iraq due to political pressure. Some people just cant get away from the obvious partisan bashing.
I am trying to understand your position regarding "diplomacy and logic". How do you establish diplomatic realtions with rats, roaches and fleas....
Again, I suggest you read the section of the presidential speech defining the war on terror. I have provided the cut and paste...please point where it states ONLY those connected to 9/11.
It is difficult for me to understand your possition regarding the war on terror as your statement is not supported by the definition given and communicated as it pertains to 9/11 as the ONLY group included.
I'm sure we could schedule breakfast and folks would simply bring us all the terrorists
I also suggest you do some research and review what was passed in 1998 and what it authorized...and the country and leader it pertained to. Please review the vote tally as well...for and against.
 

jones

Member
Originally Posted by AW2
I was in the military and in the Middle East YEARS before this war broke out and even some after it broke out.
I can say, with 1000% conviction, without a single doubt, as God as my witness.....they've always hated us.
I have no doubt about that, I'm talking about the rest of the world, I really believe that anti-american sentiment has grown since the Iraq war began.
 

jones

Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
I am trying to understand your position regarding "diplomacy and logic". How do you establish diplomatic realtions with rats, roaches and fleas....
Oh boy, I never said, and neither did anyone else, that we should be diplomatic with the terrorists. Read my entire statement. We need help from the entire world to help flush the rats, roaches and fleas out.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Its not just Iraq war that is problematic between us and say, other "civilized" countries, our allies in Europe. Actually, Germany, Russia, allies? Since when? Anyway, there just is a MAJOR political and "social" difference between them and us. We are capitalists, and to them that is repugnant. We believe in democracy, and they are socialist, environmentalist, etc. The democratic party here in the USA is the closest system to "their way of thinking" which is why American is better liked when our government is dominated by Democrats. So, you can imagine, right now they are really hot under the collar since every branch of the government is conservative. So, now they hate us.
Who cares? I sure as heck don't.
 

aw2

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
I really believe that anti-american sentiment has grown since the Iraq war began.

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands Iraqi men, women and children, that are opening their arms to our soldiers, feeding our soldiers and giving them shelter. Seems to me that they're pretty happy that we saved them from a tyranical dictator that gassed thousands of his own people just because he didnt like them.
 
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