News flash: the war in Iraq is NOT a war against terror

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Originally Posted by jones
We need help from the entire world to help flush the rats, roaches and fleas out.
jones, it would be nice but our so-called friends in Europe are in bed with a lot of our enemies so getting help from them isn't going to happen any time soon....not until they get a little more taste of terrorism at their back door. Terrorist makes bad bedfellows.
The French President has delusions of grandeur. Bush has foiled his plan to be "Emperor of Europe" by dividing the European opinion and by taking the focus away from the European Union.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
I know you dont belive that we were more well liked before the war in Iraq.
I've never cared for popularity contests.
But rest assured...if they need us...the phone will ring...is that France on line 2?
 

jones

Member
Well, I suppose i had better look for another board for help with my tank now. I have a feeling youre all gonna be giving me advice to give my tank heavy doses of copper to help it cycle. :thinking:
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
Oh boy, I never said, and neither did anyone else, that we should be diplomatic with the terrorists. Read my entire statement. We need help from the entire world to help flush the rats, roaches and fleas out.
Oh really? I was referring to the leader of countries such as Saddam...I'm not sure if he is a rat, roach or flea? They all can be found in holes. Hmmm...he called on his troops to die for the cause...yet he had no problem hiding in a hole.
I misread your post...but I still disagree
I'm sure Syria will just hand over all those weapons moved from Iraq and ex-Iraqi scum that fled to their country
I'll settle for the help form those with the stomach. courage and nerve to do something..
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
Well, I suppose i had better look for another board for help with my tank now. I have a feeling youre all gonna be giving me advice to give my tank heavy doses of copper to help it cycle. :thinking:
No way..I respect your opinion and you have every right to state it. I am actually enjoying the "debate".
You cannot get involved in such a discussion and not feel passionate about your position. By the end of the discussion...we all simply say have a nice day and move on.
Discussions on religion, war, politics. ethics, etc ...it brings out the best in all of us ..... right?
 

scubadoo

Active Member
We did ask for them.....but they never gave them up....I guess all the help pre-war. This was back when they liked us
.....
And tonight, the United States of America makes the following demands on the Taliban: Deliver to United States authorities all the leaders of al Qaeda who hide in your land. (Applause.) Release all foreign nationals, including American citizens, you have unjustly imprisoned. Protect foreign journalists, diplomats and aid workers in your country. Close immediately and permanently every terrorist training camp in Afghanistan, and hand over every terrorist, and every person in their support structure, to appropriate authorities. (Applause.) Give the United States full access to terrorist training camps, so we can make sure they are no longer operating.
These demands are not open to negotiation or discussion. (Applause.) The Taliban must act, and act immediately. They will hand over the terrorists, or they will share in their fate.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
How quickly we forget......we were told what was coming.....
Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. (Applause.) From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.
Our nation has been put on notice: We are not immune from attack. We will take defensive measures against terrorism to protect Americans.
 

jones

Member
There is nothing in this post i disagree with. That was exactly the way that should have been.
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
No way..I respect your opinion and you have every right to state it. I am actually enjoying the "debate".
You cannot get involved in such a discussion and not feel passionate about your position. By the end of the discussion...we all simply say have a nice day and move on.
Discussions on religion, war, politics. ethics, etc ...it brings out the best in all of us ..... right?

Whew, thank heavens for that. Lord knows I need TONS of help. If we all agreed on evrything, the world would be a very boring place.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
How quickly we forget......we were told what was coming.....
Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. (Applause.) From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.
Our nation has been put on notice: We are not immune from attack. We will take defensive measures against terrorism to protect Americans.
What ever happened to the guy that said this...the country that applauded, and the nation that for the most part stood as one. :help:
 

jones

Member
And remember, wtih that statement, most of the rest of the world was applauding us too. Then somewhere down the line everything fell apart. Thanks for the conversation. I do appreciate people with strong opinions even if they dont share mine. Take care.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
There is nothing in this post i disagree with. That was exactly the way that should have been.
Whew, thank heavens for that. Lord knows I need TONS of help. If we all agreed on evrything, the world would be a very boring place.
We all have our opinions/views.
I have been very concerned lately at the "forgetfullness" of many in this country.
We demonstrate numerous times how we simply forget as time passes. For the most part, we learn a lesson today, but will make a decision tomorrow that is contrary to the lesson learned.
it is my hope that the lessons of today, will not be forgotten tomorrow. I am talking about history here as it relates to this thread.
On too many occassions, we feel we need some right and just cause before we react. IMO....we engage in offensive measures...and therefore we don't have to make decisions as a reaction to a body count or tragedy.
I believe we could all generate a quick list of countries that promote, harbor, etc known groups of terror that would like to destroy us.
What do we do? Wait for another body count? Take them out before they strike? Wait for some cause, case, or situation where and when it looks favorable to do something?
Being popular is not neessarily a good thing...it all depends who likes you........
Sometimes, you have to waer the black hat...and at the end of the day...who gives a crap if you are popular with a bunch of cowards.
Sorry I "hogged" this thread
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
No one said that Iraq never had chemical programs, thats obvious.
True, but how about brand new suits? Did he expect US to use WMDs?
Originally Posted by jones
And Iraq was the only country to not comply with a UN resolution? Didn't the U.S. itself forgo the UNs wishes on this issue?
Iraq was in breach of several UN resolutions. Name ONE that the USA breached.
Originally Posted by jones
Thats a local issue in the middle east, not a broad world wide terror plot. And he's not the only one who supported the palestinians.
We couldn't disagree more. Israel is an Ally. Should the USA turn a blind eye towards the palestinian terrorists? (like the rest of the world likes too?)
Originally Posted by jones

You really take comfort in Libyas announcement?
No, but's a start. More than they've ever done before.
Originally Posted by jones

You really believe theyre not crawling with terrorists who hate us? And the supposed democratic process in Iraq and Afghanistan is a joke. The situation in Afghanistan is horrible. Democracy can not be put in place by a war initiated by an outside force.
Tell that to all the millions of people under the former Soviet Union. Unless history has been re-written they all gained freedom through us as the outside influence.
Originally Posted by jones

Both the Sudis and the Kurds have said that they want us to leave.
No they haven't. Some citizens have said that, which is a good thing. Under Saddam they've all be missing tongues for those kind of comments. They are learning what freedom means
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Originally Posted by jones
If democracy is to take hold it will only happen if the people of Iraq step up and make it happen, not because we forced it down their throat.
Agreed, and we're allowing them to do so. Remember what happened to people who talked about this under Saddam?
Originally Posted by jones

Hmm, thats convenient, make assumptions about reasons for something that didnt happen
Do you have a more plausible theory as to why we haven't been attacked? You say the world hates us more, yet our homeland is more secure.
 

jones

Member
Last post, I'm afraid I'm addicted here, have to cut myself off.
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Remember what happened to people who talked about this under Saddam?
I do, and I also remember what happened years ago when the people of Iraq actually asked for our help, and we forgot to show up after we promised.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Under Bill CLinton as passed in 1998
SEC. 2. FINDINGS.
The Congress makes the following findings:
(1) On September 22, 1980, Iraq invaded Iran, starting an 8 year war in which Iraq employed chemical weapons against Iranian troops and ballistic missiles against Iranian cities.
(2) In February 1988, Iraq forcibly relocated Kurdish civilians from their home villages in the Anfal campaign, killing an estimated 50,000 to 180,000 Kurds.
(3) On March 16, 1988, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iraqi Kurdish civilian opponents in the town of Halabja, killing an estimated 5,000 Kurds and causing numerous birth defects that affect the town today.
(4) On August 2, 1990, Iraq invaded and began a 7 month occupation of Kuwait, killing and committing numerous abuses against Kuwaiti civilians, and setting Kuwait's oil wells ablaze upon retreat.
(5) Hostilities in Operation Desert Storm ended on February 28, 1991, and Iraq subsequently accepted the ceasefire conditions specified in United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 (April 3, 1991) requiring Iraq, among other things, to disclose fully and permit the dismantlement of its weapons of mass destruction programs and submit to long-term monitoring and verification of such dismantlement.
(6) In April 1993, Iraq orchestrated a failed plot to assassinate former President George Bush during his April 14-16, 1993, visit to Kuwait.
(7) In October 1994, Iraq moved 80,000 troops to areas near the border with Kuwait, posing an imminent threat of a renewed invasion of or attack against Kuwait.
(8) On August 31, 1996, Iraq suppressed many of its opponents by helping one Kurdish faction capture Irbil, the seat of the Kurdish regional government.
(9) Since March 1996, Iraq has systematically sought to deny weapons inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) access to key facilities and documents, has on several occasions endangered the safe operation of UNSCOM helicopters transporting UNSCOM personnel in Iraq, and has persisted in a pattern of deception and concealment regarding the history of its weapons of mass destruction programs.
(10) On August 5, 1998, Iraq ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM, and subsequently threatened to end long-term monitoring activities by the International Atomic Energy Agency and UNSCOM.
(11) On August 14, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-235, which declared that `the Government of Iraq is in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations' and urged the President `to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations.'.
(12) On May 1, 1998, President Clinton signed Public Law 105-174, which made $5,000,000 available for assistance to the Iraqi democratic opposition for such activities as organization, training, communication and dissemination of information, developing and implementing agreements among opposition groups, compiling information to support the indictment of Iraqi officials for war crimes, and for related purposes.
SEC. 3. SENSE OF THE CONGRESS REGARDING UNITED STATES POLICY TOWARD IRAQ.
It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
As spoken by the current President......
After all that has just passed -- all the lives taken, and all the possibilities and hopes that died with them -- it is natural to wonder if America's future is one of fear. Some speak of an age of terror. I know there are struggles ahead, and dangers to face. But this country will define our times, not be defined by them. As long as the United States of America is determined and strong, this will not be an age of terror; this will be an age of liberty, here and across the world. (Applause.)
Great harm has been done to us. We have suffered great loss. And in our grief and anger we have found our mission and our moment. Freedom and fear are at war. The advance of human freedom -- the great achievement of our time, and the great hope of every time -- now depends on us. Our nation -- this generation -- will lift a dark threat of violence from our people and our future. We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts, by our courage. We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail. (Applause.)
 

reefraff

Active Member
I remember all the crap Reagan used to take for his "Cowboy" diplomacy. That talk ceased about the same time the Berlin wall fell and the USSR crumbled. If Iraq can transform itself into a democracy of some sort Bush may well be remembered among the greatest leaders in the world, let alone in this country. Going into Iraq was a bold move, you don't make history by playing it safe or trying not to offend anyone. I just wish the guy would veto a spending bill and do something about the borders.
 

darth tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by jones
Thats a local issue in the middle east, not a broad world wide terror plot. And he's not the only one who supported the palestinians.
I can not fathom how you get some of your views. You are willing to completely disregard the terrorist actions against Isreal that went on a daily basis, yet you want the us to work with the world community and have their aid? Guess what? We have had Isreal's aid for a very longtime. They are one oif our closest allies. Yet you want us to disregard their terrorist problem that was funded by Hussein as well. That is hypocritical. You want help and to work with other countries, but only if the terrorist threat is immediate to our homeland. Well guess what. That is a threat to our people. Our embassy and an embassy convoy for the US has been attacked or bombed by palestinine terrorists. So it is NOT a regional problem.
Originally Posted by jones

You really take comfort in Libyas announcement? You really believe theyre not crawling with terrorists who hate us? And the supposed democratic process in Iraq and Afghanistan is a joke. The situation in Afghanistan is horrible. Democracy can not be put in place by a war initiated by an outside force. Both the Sudis and the Kurds have said that they want us to leave. If democracy is to take hold it will only happen if the people of Iraq step up and make it happen, not because we forced it down their throat.
You find reason to question Libya, but you do not question Sadaam's ties to terrorism? That strikes me funny.
Don't worry, I will give good advice on your tanks still.
 
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