Nitrate Levels

[tgcdc]

I have a 75 gallon tank. The hydrometer is reading 1.025, pH is 8.2, ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, and nitrates are at 20ppm. The tank is just over 2 months old. I have a 400 bio-filter, Aqua Clear 50 powerhead, 70lbs of live rock, 2 false clowns, 1 6-lined wrasse, 2-cardinals, 3 shrip, live sand around 2 inches in depth. I have done 10% weekly water changes and have also added Kordon AmQuel Plus to help as well. I am worried about some of my mushroom corals with this high nitrate level that just won't come down. Can any help with answers?

 

[scopus tang]

Usually at the end of the cycling period, its recommended to perform a 20% water change to bring the nitrates down prior to adding fish. Did you do that ~ if not, you may want to try a little larger scale water change, but I wouldn't go over 20%. Make sure that temperature, salinity, and pH are all the same in your mixed water prior to doing a 20% water change. Are you running a refugium on your tank? Adding marine algaes will help reduce the nitrate levels as well, but can introduce problems of their own without a refugium.

 

[tgcdc]

I am not running a refugium. I did the 20% change. My nitrates have gotton as low as 5 ppm but that was only once. I changed the feeding habits to once daily and that is whatever the fish can eat in less than 2 minutes. You still think I should attempt another 20% change?

 

[perfectdark]

20ppm nitrates is not going to adversly affect your musrooms. In a lot of tanks 20 ppm is the norm. I have had 40+ for a month or so and had no ill effects on my corals. I would say IMO its somthing else irritating or bothering your mushrooms. JMO.

 

[tgcdc]

So far my mushrooms are fine. All that I have read up to this point is that my nitrates for keeping corals should be as close to 0ppm as possible. Is this possible with water changes or do I need to set up a refugium?

 

[dennis210]

With LR and LS zero nitrates are very possible but your husbandry skills must be up to the challenge. Regular water changes will help, but in a 75 gallon tank with nitrates running at 20 ppm - performing a 35 - 40 gallon water change would mathmatically only drop you to around 10 ppm. So regular smaller water changes, less food being fed, and running one of the nitrate absorbing filter media would be beneficial. Once you reach zero nitrates then the key is to only add to system what the bacterial load can assimilate.
That is why husbandry is important! "Knowledge is power!"

 

[perfectdark]

Originally Posted by tgcdc
http:///forum/post/2504904
So far my mushrooms are fine. All that I have read up to this point is that my nitrates for keeping corals should be as close to 0ppm as possible. Is this possible with water changes or do I need to set up a refugium?
In general we strive for 0 but obsessing over it can make this hobby more aggrivating than fun. And the reality is most systems dont see 0 ever and 20 is a very workable range to be in.

 

[dennis210]

Most Reef or FOWLR "DO" reach zero and husbandry practices (maintainace, feeding schedules, nutrient export, etc) help to maintain it. Not obsessing over some nitrates is okay, but one should be wondering "where are they coming from and how can I keep them down". Keeping a tank where corals and inverts are sensitive to nitrates more so than fish is a lesson in "Waste Water Management".

 

[perfectdark]

Originally Posted by Dennis210
http:///forum/post/2505131
Most Reef or FOWLR "DO" reach zero ".
Sorry but I do not agree with this statment, if you can provide me test results from "most reef and or FOWLR" tanks it would be benificial to back up your statment.
FWIW most of my information is sited from Fenners site and Q&A from him where he strives to give the best practical advice for reef keeping. And most FOWLR tend to always have a higher nitrate level than reef tanks because of lack of corals that use nitrates as part of their growth and propagation. Again another topic of conversation from Fenner.

 

[dennis210]

The debate goes on- Last post for me on this topic so suffice to say :
Tanks set up with live rock and a sand bed, skimmer etc. One intended to be reef and the other to be FOWLR. The differance thereafter is the husbandry practices in each. The reef tank you now your corals and inverts are more intolerant of nitrates so you don't overfeed, you don't overload load with fish, you export nutrients with water changes andpossible harvesting algae. In the FOWLR system the sand and live rock are there to process the nitrogen just like in a reef tank, but then we say "nitrates are okay". Is the biology of the system any differant? NOPE. Are the husbandry practices any differant - HELL YES! The FOWLR was not intended to be a reef so pristine conditions are not as important - the husbandry practices there for change - more stock, more food, less maintainance, etc. IE nitrate level above zero existing
and for that system or that person it is OKAY. JUST don't say a system can't or rrarely achieve zero nitrates - becuase they can and do more often than not when you don't overload the systems biological ability to break down wastes. Keeping a fish tank is a lesson in waste water treatement -
fish do @#$% and @#$% happens is a reality so you have do either deal with it or simply say 10 ppm is OKAY! The choice is yours. So for me end of debate - each fish keeper has to decide what husbandry practices are for them and which are not. As far as stating where facts come from try this -
Limnology and Icthyology degrees, along with current works by Hargreaves, Paletta, Dakin, Calfo, Fenner, Borneman, Tullock, et al. and more! When I took the plunge from fresh to salt I researched alot to learn before I made mistakes that kill live stuff!

 

[perfectdark]

Originally Posted by Dennis210
http:///forum/post/2505156
JUST don't say a system can't I never said thisor rrarely achieve zero nitratesI did say this - becuase they can and do more often than not Here is where I would need proof.when you don't overload the systems biological ability to break down wastes. Keeping a fish tank is a lesson in waste water treatement -I agree 100%
each fish keeper has to decide what husbandry practices are for them and which are not. As far as stating where facts come from try this -
Limnology and Icthyology degrees, along with current works by Hargreaves, Paletta, Dakin, Calfo, Fenner, Borneman, Tullock, et al. and more! When I took the plunge from fresh to salt I researched alot to learn before I made mistakes that kill live stuff!
Im not doubting your experience I just plainly asked where you have sited "most all systems do?" I think if you take a poll here you will see that the majority of us have nitrates in our tanks and there are no issues with corals inverts etc... I have read numerous circumstances where the presence of nitrates in systems just cannot be identified to a single source. The task of finding these causes in problematic systems becomes an obsession for some hobbiests and in some of these circumstanses makes them want to leave the hobby. From a practical stand point my opinion stays the same YES I AGREE as stated above 0ppm nitrates is what we should strive for. However it is IMO not somthing some one should obsess over if there levels are within a workable range..

 

[lexluethar]

I believe 0 nitrates are difficult to achieve, escpecially in our tanks in which most of us probably over populate and overfeed. 6 months into the hobby is where i reached 0 nitrates for about two months, then i added a bta and 2 clowns, now it hovers between 10 and 20 with 10% water changes weekly. I'm sure in another 6 months or so once my tank becomes more estabilished it will get back down to 0.
Point being... 20 isn't that bad. Keep up with water changes, and every now and again thrown in a 20% change instead of a 10% and eventually you will reach 0.

 

[tgcdc]

Thank you for the great info. I am diffenetly not adding any more stock at this point. I did get LR lbs up to 100. I am going to stay with the system I have for a couple of more months and follow your directions. The last thing I want to do is to kill any live creature because of my lack of knowledge. I appreciate all of your help.