Nitrates!!?! Please help

[dlehto]

:help: Okay I know this has been covered many times now and I have read much of it here already so I apologize for the redundancy, but I have a few point questions regarding REDUCING Nitrates in my tank. and maybe you can see what I am doing wrong.
First my tank: (running for only about 2.5months)
55 gal
50 to 65lbs fiji LR
Skilter combo (researchign purchasing a hang on skimmer)
130w PC corallife lights (researching adding more light)
3 to 6 inches of DSB
2 inch clowns
2 chromis
1 firefish
1 watchman goby
1 royal grama (1inch)
1 small mandarin
1 baby purple tang(1.5 inch)
30 snails/15hcrabs
1 starfish
1 clam
1 scarlet cleaner shrimp
Water: (only purified water)
75 Degrees F
PH= 8 to 8.2
SG=1.024
Amonia/Nitrite=0
Nitrate = 20
I hope to (as I gain more exp with swf) purchase corals and ultimately have a populated reef tank. I understand that in order for my corals to live, the nitrates must be very low/ or at zero? (in addition to other water parameters I am still learning about)
Regarding the nitrates.... they keep rising. I do 10% water changes every 5 to 7 days. I added green calurpa to aid in nitrate reduction, and a clam (lfs said they help reduce nitrate). I change my skilter pads every 7days. am using carbon and a white pad in filter. I have reduced the amount I feed my fish.
Question: Do I need to reduce or stabilize my nitrate problem before adding even easy/hardy corals?
will 20ppm kill the corals?
I understand osmosis happens in deep sand/ in deep rocks. since I have a new tank, do I have to wait longer for that process to kick in?
Tang keeps eating my Calerpa macro algae!?! Should I buy a lot more from lfs and add to tank?
do i have to many fish? should I add another 10lb of LR in the tank?
what should I do or try?
Thanks in advance for your help and for sharing your knowledge and expierience!
:happyfish :happyfish my my

 

[lefty]

On a sidenote, I think you should raise the temperature of your tank up a few degrees (79-81). You might also wanted to raise your salinity up a point or two.
My first question concerning your nitrates is: What type of test kit are you using? I have two different nitrate kits. One says 40 and the other says 10. The one that says 10 is the accurate one; I don't know why the other one's so far off.
-lefty

 

[dlehto]

Raise salinity, and temp you think?
The test kit I have is cheap

It is a Dr. wellfish, SALTWATER MASTER Liquid Test Kit from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.
Can you recommend a good nitrate test kit? Or just the most expensive one?
Also I have been using purified and distilled water from local grocery store for water changes... Is it possible it has nitrates in it?
:notsure: duh.. maybe I should test a fresh jug... brain flash /laugh

 

[offshore80]

Well, The clam really needs MH lighting. And as far as helping the nitrates... I think it would take a school of them. Your best bet is to take him back and get you a GOOD hang on the back skimmer. That would help a bunch. You can run a search on this board under skimmers and 1000 will pop up. AQUA C seems to be a good one. Your Tang will eat Algae... That's his natural food.
20 is not bad for nitrates on fish. I wouldn't panic yet. Now if it starts to go over 50. I would start to get a handle on it. But, with that Bio load your running you really need a optimum skimmer. That's one of the pieces of equipment that you really need to spend the bucks for. The better the skimmer the less maintenance for you. It’s worth the big money. Oh, he's right on the test kit. Salifert seems to be the best. That's another thing to spend the money on.

 

[viper_930]

I'm not totally sure about this, but when your tang eats the calurpa, it may be releasing stored up nitrates from the plant into your tank. Again, I am not sure if macro algea actually store the nitrates or convert it to something else, so if somebody can confirm this it would be great.
Also, I'd recommend you remove the tang and the mandarin. Your tank isn't big enough and doesn't have enough LR to support a mandarin's feeding habbits long term IMO. And a 55 gallon is not big enough for a tang, it will grow. You have too many fish anyways IMO.

 

[offshore80]

He's right about the Tang and Mandarin. Unless you can get the Mandarin to eat something besides copods he'll be dead in a few weeks. Usually takes alot of live rock and time to create enough copods to maintain a mandarin. A purple tang needs a 6' tank once he's grown for the swimming space. Keep that in mind. They tend to slowly stress without the proper swimming space. THey love to swim and graze.

 

[dlehto]

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.
The clam. Its not a pretty color clam, its a regular clam. It buried itself deep in the sand, and I dont even know where it is now. about 1 inch diameter. plain old boring clam.
The mandarin: such I have heard about the copods, but I got him about 4 weeks ago and he is doing fine. I even checked the tank at night with a flashlight. and saw darting little things... I think they are pods, but dont really konw for sure. he still appears healthy and hes not really skinny. Still I shoudl bring him back to lfs?
Also the Tang. Dont think I can honestly give him up...
hes still little, I know he will grow, but read that a 55gal is min size for a purple tang? (maybe in a year I can afford a bigger tank... I wish) I'd be sad if he left my tank
no nitrates in the distilled water. but they were about 5-10ppm after the mini cycle (first 8days, used fully cured LR) water changes brought it down to about 5ppm.. but since then over the next 5 to 6weeks it has slowly gained.... at 20 and probably rising. !#!-#
A good skimmer would reduce nitrates? is that true?
maybe I should buy 20lb more LR and a skimmer?
my skilter combo rarely collects foam. only some days it does.
CAN i get a few basic hardy coral? (say starpolyup or yello polly)? or will my nitrates kill them?
-ordered a 400w MH, with 10,000k bulb. in additoin to my 130w of PC light.
thanks.

 

[dmc888]

Not sure if the skilter is enough. How much gph for the skilter. Might want to up the filtration if you want to keep the tang in there.
Do you have a powerhead? Probably need 2 .
Your tang is probably over eating since it has an abundent source of food. Keep in mind tangs have a high bioload already. And will only get worse the bigger it gets..

 

[offshore80]

You can get by for a couple years on the Purple Tang. But, he really needs a bigger tank. Most people will roast you on this site for keeping a Tang in a 55. I won't. Just advice. My Purple Tang is 5" dia. He needs all 6' of my tank.
The Mandarin might just hold is own. But, I doubt it. If he dies. I would chalk it up to not enough copods though. Glad he's doing OK.
Believe me, A good skimmer is a must for lower nitrates. I would have put the money in a skimmer and not MH lighting at this point. Look into a (Aqua C Remora). I take it you don't have a sump. The natural way to remove nitrates is a fuge. If you want to go there. If not, go with a great skimmer to have a healthy fish and coral tank.
Run, a search on this site for skimmers and you will find out about the importance of a good skimmer.
For happy fish like this get a good skimmer.

 

[offshore80]

Clams like this.

 

[dlehto]

wow! very nice pics! I wish my tank looked like that
I'll wait a few months before I post any pics if my tank kind of still plain old rock and fish and calurpa... but hey its a work in process.
I have 3 powerheads and a wavemaker outlet.
No, I dont have a refugium. But I dont have the money for a expensive wet/dry filter either.. Going to have to start prioritizing before my wife goes batty on me
The skilter, has two cartriges side by side and a skimmer, (not sure of gph) said it was rated for up to 100gal tank (sw) but it really is loud.
Things I should get in order of priority? (keep in mind I cant get it all at once) Or what do you think?
1. SKIMMER Guess I really need a good skimmer. I was thinking of a hang on, but if I get a under the tank skimmer and pump, could I sort of make my own refugium somehow? am researching skimmers now.
2. Good Nitrate test kit.
3. More LR? (currently have 50 to 60lbs fiji premium LR)
4. Refugium?
5. Better Filter w/sump (wet/dry)
6. more sand? (avg 3 or 4 inches)
7. remove some fish or my tang

The tang is still very little. but he is eating all the calerpa for sure. maybe I'll put a bunch of it in a separate clear container in the tank so he cant eat all of it. Maybe in a year when he gets bigger, I can buy a new 6' tank and switch over. or I guess if i cant afford that, then I'll have to bring him to lfs, I dont want him to be sad or stressed.
I really do appreciate the advice. I really want to get some beginner corals also, or something. but logic is telling me not to spend the money if my tank is not suitable (20ppm) for them.
Maybe I'll wait until after I get a skimmer and run it for a few weeks to see if I can get the nitrates down?

 

[offshore80]

Sounds like you have a plan. But, really want a 125-150 reef ready system with a wet/dry filter and in sump Euro reef skimmer.
Think hard, cause you will end up buying all new stuff again.
That’s how I ended up with 3 tank set ups. Here is one of my tanks with 300+ lbs of LR . Runs through the wall and into my garage where I have my fuge, QT and RO system.

 

[offshore80]

Filter sys.

 

[offshore80]

Mixing station for RO, Fuge, Chiller & QT through the wall and into the garage.

 

[evilbob22]

I hate to say this, but yes... take the mandarin back even though he looks good and is eating. I had a mandarin in a 55 Gal a few years ago and he did great for 2 or 3 months. It took him that long to eat up all the pods and he starved to death

. I was going by something that I read in a book (copyright 1987) that basically said it would be fine if I had live rock, without saying how much. It turned out to be wrong. (by the way it also suggested using crushed coral on top of an undergravel filter :scared: )

 

[dlehto]

YIKES!!
I'd better get my plumbing liscense first! and maybe a masters degree to set up something like that!
Wow! wonder if I should show that to my wife?... heh she'd faint. and then gaurd her laundry room (back wall to my fish tank).
Hopefully some day long time down the road, I could afford a big, real nice tank. but for the next year or two or more I'm going to have to stick with my plain 55gal. maybe after I get it up and running smoothly, then over the next year or so I can cruise ---- or the paper for used stuff and slowly put together components for a big tank.
.... Back to real life, I figure I'll get a under tank REALLY REALLY good skimmer and make my own fuge, then buy a good nitrate kit and do a 25% wc add fully cured LR, and hope for the best!
maybe I'll get a pretty clam like you have also, after my 400w MH arrives. er.. will the nitrates kill that also?

 

[dlehto]

thats 3 for removing the mandarin.
I'll have to seriously consider that, I dont want him to die... How much LR would I need for him? I have 50to60lbs atm. and I maybe can fit another 10 or 15lbs or so in there. Think that would be enough?
strange though he looks fat and healthy. but as you said, I've only had him for 5 or 6 weeks now, and he may be still depleting my pods.
Could I add regular Ocean water? would that have pods in it? I do live close to the ocean...

 

[offshore80]

I'm not sure what kind of clam you have?? But, 20 Nitrates won't kill him. mine runs any where between 10-25. I've never lost anything.
Try to buy things of high quality and rated for almost double for what it's intended. So, when you do step up you will have equipment that will work for you.
Believe me noise will become a factor. So you want to get quiet equipment. My systems are virtually silent. Overflows going into a wet/dry and noisy skimmers can take away from a system.
Just something to keep in mind.
You have a plan and seem to be doing good research. Good luck.
Unfortunately, that mandarin is going to die whether in your tank or the pet stores or someone elses tank. 95% of those fish go into a tank that can't support them. Those fish have great visual appearance so pet stores love them. It's a quick buck. They always sell. Try to visually see if he's eating. Sometimes they will eat brine.

 

[ophiura]

1) I'm for removing the mandarin...they take a long time to starve so what you see now is not an indication of what will happen. I would remove something else too, personally.
2) The macros will only be good if you can keep them away from the tang, otherwise it is simply fish food.
3) I know you want corals, but I would wait. Not necessarily because you would kill them, but because I think the golden rule of saltwater tank keeping is violated: patience. IMO, this tank is at max stocking level and it is only a few months old! I would like to see that in 6 to 12 months at the earliest. Just too much too fast, IMO, and I would like to see it slow down ideally and get things running smoothly. 20ppt isn't fatal, but I would check it versus a quality test kit...try to see if your LFS will test the water for you.
4) Refugium over wet/dry. More LR (but slowly if it is not cured to avoid ammonia spike)
5) Skimmers remove various stuff like proteins, lipids, etc before they enter the biological cycle so they definitely help the situation a lot.

 

[offshore80]

Stay away from Ocean water.
Use R/O if you can.