Obama to address nation?????????

flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385466/obama-to-address-nation/120#post_3381840
Hence my point about the evolving of various religions. And it starts with those teaching it to the young............
+1 and when we have a Bin Laden as a religious leader.....We land up with crazy holy wars that only makes sense to themselves. The big problem now is that it is a blood war, not religious. You killed mine, now I kill yours is what makes it never ending. I'm sure the US has big time stepped up our vigil on terrorism, I hope the nut cakes die of boredom waiting for a chance to strike and never get one.
I also hope we in America are smart enough to not blame all Muslims and treat them as enemies...but remain watchful to any suspicious activity and report it.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
NeoCons are still liberals. Bush is/was a liberal. What I find most striking about NeoCons is that they are the first to jump us into war and then spend more time worrying what the enemy thinks than what we can do to kill them and finish the job. Something Obama and the Dems were right about was how Bush said how dangerous Al Qeada and the Taliban were, then wouldn't send in enough troops to actually win til we had almost lost Afghanistan. Typical NeoCon illogic. One thing Rush is absolutely right about is that war is about blowing things up and killing people. If you don't have the stomach for it, don't start the fight. Germany and Japan did not surrender until they were on the brink of utter extinction. It will be the same with the Jihadists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385466/obama-to-address-nation/100#post_3381839
I am going to call you out right here. Only Liberals? Or is your hatred for the otherside of the aisle so big you blame them for everything? I seem to remember some pretty prominent conservatives stating the same thing.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
BTW, I have consistently praised Obama and liberals when I think they are right. I am NOT a republican. This return to Hoover economics of big business is always right and they should never be restrained is antithetical to Rooseveltism-free enterprise with restraint. Ronaldus Magnus NEVER dismantled business oversight and regulation, yet his name is always invoked when discussing the monopolistic enterprise that modern multinational corporate greed has become. Reagan and Roosevelt are my kind of republican, not this modern ethos of greed is good.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

BTW, I have consistently praised Obama and liberals when I think they are right. I am NOT a republican. This return to Hoover economics of big business is always right and they should never be restrained is antithetical to Rooseveltism-free enterprise with restraint. Ronaldus Magnus NEVER dismantled business oversight and regulation, yet his name is always invoked when discussing the monopolistic enterprise that modern multinational corporate greed has become. Reagan and Roosevelt are my kind of republican, not this modern ethos of greed is good.
Gotcha.....
Teddy or franklin?
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

 
+1 and when we have a Bin Laden as a religious leader.....We land up with crazy holy wars that only makes sense to themselves. The big problem now is that it is a blood war, not religious. You killed mine, now I kill yours is what makes it never ending. I'm sure the US has big time stepped up our vigil on terrorism, I hope the nut cakes die of boredom waiting for a chance to strike and never get one.
 
 
I also hope we in America are smart enough to not blame all Muslims and treat them as enemies...but remain watchful to any suspicious activity and report it.
 
War is war. .........blood war....holy war......necessary war....containment war.......revolutionary war......civil war..........what is the difference? The desired end result is the same
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Since FDR was a democratic :), that would leave Theodore Roosevelt: the trust buster. But Reagan was of the same mindset. I am 43 and until Lush Windbag started trashing Teddy as a liberal, anti-free enterprise president, had never heard a so-called conservative trash the man. Conservatism does not mean surrendering ideals of freedom and true free enterprise to conglomerate capitalism. The check pant republicans Lush likes to ridicule is who he is. Now, if you've been to Rush academy of conservatism, let's hear the anti-Roosevelt rhetoric.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member

Since FDR was a democratic (:, that would leave Theodore Roosevelt: the trust buster. But Reagan was of the same mindset. I am 43 and until Lush Windbag started trashing Teddy as a liberal, anti-free enterprise president, had never heard a so-called conservative trash the man. Conservatism does not mean surrendering ideals of freedom and true free enterprise to conglomerate capitalism. The check pant republicans Lush likes to ridicule is who he is. Now, if you've been to Rush academy of conservatism, let's hear the anti-Roosevelt rhetoric.
Dislike rush...occasionally makes a good point...but that is about it.
I love teddy roosevelt....many don't know this, but if it weren't for him we would not have an NFL league or football at all.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/385466/obama-to-address-nation/100#post_3381772
Reef, I disagree to an extent.......the more I read and the more I encounter I feel it is no different than. The southern christian bapists during segregation......not so much a religion aspect,but a racist/bigotry aspect to their ideology.......it wasn't that long ago when a lot of people used god to defend there hatred for blacks....hell some today still do sadly. And we weren't a third world nation then..........
You have people from many different countries and cultures spanning the economic spectrum who engage in terrorist acts and they have a single unifying cause, Islam. What is it about this religion that makes it so easy to convince people to commit murder in the name of it? I am not suggesting we round up Muslims. Hell I've worked with several throughout the years and they were all good people. But we have got to quite worrying that we might offend someone, somewhere and tell it like it is. The moderate muslims, who make up the majority of the religion and wouldn't hurt a fly are enabling the radicals by refusing to condemn their actions. The left in this country for the most part have no issue using government funds to support "art" that consists of a Christian religious symbol in a jar of pee or a picture of a Catholic saint splattered with elephant crap but they cringe at the idea anyone say something that might be seen as offensive to Muslims.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
These people have come from the Dark Ages into the modern era within the past 50 years. That is not going to be a smooth journey. I'm sure there is not a single factor but many--racism, religion, fear, camaraderie, West vs them---all of it--that plays in to why some do not embrace American ideology.
I think many average Muslims who just want to live their daily lives in peace would not speak up knowing that they risk their life, or their placement within their own community. Moderate spokesman, mostly those living here in the USA will speak out against bin Laden and his minions, however, they feel there is a level of grievance against the USA (and the West) that we just don't realize or acknowledge. They don't see the USA as blameless, even though many acknowledge that Al-Queda are terrorists. Its the same reason why many blacks aren't going to speak out for many of our American icons-- respect for the founders, the Constitution, etc.
Not everyone comes from the same place.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
""I think many average Muslims who just want to live their daily lives in peace would not speak up knowing that they risk their life, or their placement within their own community.""
And that is a huge part of the problem, especially when those living in western countries take that attitude.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think it is an attitude, it is just a wish to not be involved in controversy....most people do not want to be activist.
Its not really a matter of having Muslims speak out against extremist terrorists. Do you think most of them want to affiliate with these homicidal groups?
There are "Christians" that blow up abortion clinics and are happy about killing physicians who perform abortions. Do you see an uprising in the Christian world speaking out against such?? No. Why don't they? Because Christian generally are anti-abortion, and some are even anti-contraceptives. That is not to say that they condone killing or bombing, just that they are on the same page with the belief that abortion is wrong.
Modern, moderate Muslims don't secretly condone terrorist, but they do feel an affiliation with the issues that have resulted in some Muslims taking up terror.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///forum/thread/385466/obama-to-address-nation/120#post_3381981
I don't think it is an attitude, it is just a wish to not be involved in controversy....most people do not want to be activist.
Its not really a matter of having Muslims speak out against extremist terrorists. Do you think most of them want to affiliate with these homicidal groups?
There are "Christians" that blow up abortion clinics and are happy about killing physicians who perform abortions. Do you see an uprising in the Christian world speaking out against such?? No. Why don't they? Because Christian generally are anti-abortion, and some are even anti-contraceptives. That is not to say that they condone killing or bombing, just that they are on the same page with the belief that abortion is wrong.
Modern, moderate Muslims don't secretly condone terrorist, but they do feel an affiliation with the issues that have resulted in some Muslims taking up terror.
Yes as a matter of fact, I see many Christian leaders speak out when there are abortion clinic bombings. And you have the media seeking them out looking for those condemnations. They might at the same time make their own anti abortion views known but I can't think of a instance where there have not been a number of well known Christian leaders willing to condemn such attacks.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
As do many of the Muslim "leaders" in this country, when they dogged by the media about opinions on terrorists. What exactly do Christians do to stop madmen from killing?
My point is, its not realistic to expect your average person to become an activist.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Most of the Islamic leaders in this country refuse to call Hamas a terrorist group. I guess the rocket attacks into Israel neighborhoods are a legitimate act of war.
Terrorists are not necessarily madmen. That's the whole problem.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, its war to them, and because we support Israel, its terrorism to us. I think we invaded Iraq more because of threat to Israel then anything else. I'm not convinced, nor was I ever, that WMD was the reason we went to Iraq, And now we know that WMD was a big hoax.
These terrorists fight a lot like the native Americans did--targeting any thing they can, including women and children, and civilians, because they do not have armies and comparable weapons to fight the conventional way. Bin Ladin was no madman. He was a fanatic who loved fighting--even when it meant killing Muslims, women, children, civilians.
Saying this in no way means I condone, or have sympathy. They are the enemy of the USA, and must be destroyed. And I will leap for joy every time a piece of them are destroyed.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Yes but WHO created the WMD hoax in Iraq?
Iraq was hardly a threat to Israel, the UN is probably their biggest threat at this point in time.....
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Who knows what their threat level to Israel was. Saddam was pretty vocal about paying off suicide bombers. Not that suicide bombers will destroy Israel, but they do have the effect they are meant to have on the population.
In the end, bringing down the Saddam regime, I think, will be a good thing. Its a domino effect, as we are now seeing with other mid-east totalitarian countries. People, no matter their religion, are not happy under oppression--especially when they can clearly see how non-oppressed peoples live.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110508/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_egypt_sectarian_clashes
Yeah, yeah it's just the fanatical Muslims, but this happens everywhere there are a large percentage of Muslims. When's the last time this happened to a mosque in a majority Christian country? The problem is that the basic tenant of Islam is the killing or enslavement of the non-believers. So killing Christians and Jews and burning synagogues and churches, while maybe not condoned, is treated as no big deal by "moderates". Really the only place this doesn't happen is in Western countries where Muslims are a small minority. All religions aren't equal. If they were, then this would not be a common occurrence wherever there is a Muslim majority. I am not anti-Muslim, but the truth (no matter how uncomfortable) cannot be white-washed with pc rhetoric. Before throwing the whole "hate" bomb, think about this; I can link this same type story in Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Syria, Jordan, Tunisia, Morocco, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Chechnya, Turkey...it goes on and on. A gal I work with from southern Philippines lived on a small island and a group of Muslims wanted that island (this is the 1970's mind you and it is far worse now). They attacked her unarmed village and dragged the 20 or so nuns from the convent and tied them in the city square. They poured gas on them and burned them to death. This is common all over the Muslim world today. I want Muslims to be a part of American and world society. I don't hate them. They have a destructive religion. Please quit lying to yourself, my liberal friend. The question is how do we engage the Muslims to bring them out of the 5th century?
 
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