broncofish
Active Member
Originally posted by mmmmsushi
You should read Bronc's article..... great stuff
That is the best article I have ever stumbled upon, When I first tried it I was pretty stoked, I was telling my wife, and she was kind of looking at me like "This is what you get excited about????" Here is that link incase you don't want to scroll up. Even if you don't like chem it will be easy to understand if you read it a couple times.
http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/...kalkwasser.html
broncofish
Active Member
I can't say for sure....but I did notice two things when I started doing the vinegar thing. One I use to drip 4-7 nights a week. and my calcium would stay around 450, now I do it 2-3 times a week, and have two addtional LPS in my tank and it stays around 450. Two, my ph is always in the 8.0-8.3 range usually 8.1 if I test in the mornings. I don't usually push the vinegar thing to hard because I am bad about keeping notes so I don't have personal scientific data to back up my claims, just a IME type thing. It really helped me out, and it looks like it is working for sushi as well.
bang guy
Moderator
As I recall, Thomas is dripping into the intake of his Skimmer. i can't imagine any circumstance where the inside of a skimmer would be deficient in CO2.
One other thought... If Phosphates were high you will get some precipitation until your PO4 levels decline. That could account for missing Ca and CO3. That would be quite temporary though, perhaps a few days.
One caution on vinegar not covered in the article. If your nutrients are under control then there's not problem but if you're on the edge or already have a problem then Acetate is like bacterial candy and you could get a full blown bacteria bloom. Like I just said though.. if your nutrients are under control then there's no danger.
One other thought... If Phosphates were high you will get some precipitation until your PO4 levels decline. That could account for missing Ca and CO3. That would be quite temporary though, perhaps a few days.
One caution on vinegar not covered in the article. If your nutrients are under control then there's not problem but if you're on the edge or already have a problem then Acetate is like bacterial candy and you could get a full blown bacteria bloom. Like I just said though.. if your nutrients are under control then there's no danger.
T
thomas712
Guest
Yes dripping into the intake of the skimmer.
No algea problems, however since the last week I have had the film algea on the glass quicker, to me this just means its very close to my water change, Monday actually.
A note about the use of B-Ionic in MY system, is it seems to pricipitate easly, not in the case of snow or instant clotting, what I mean is that the calcium wants very badly to become Carbonite and does, it has constricted my pumps 3 times in the last 6 months. I have tried to do large water changes using fresh salt and RO/DI water 3 - 20 gal changes, and 3 - 15 gal changes. Now I begin to wonder about the magnesium more than ever.
The highest I go with the b ionic is 40 mils of the alk and 60 of the cal.
I have used a phosphate sponge starting last Monday which came out yesterday evening. 0.02 ppm.
New bag of chemi pure last week.
Can't think of anything else to add to my thoughts about what could be the matter with this thing.
Thomas
No algea problems, however since the last week I have had the film algea on the glass quicker, to me this just means its very close to my water change, Monday actually.
A note about the use of B-Ionic in MY system, is it seems to pricipitate easly, not in the case of snow or instant clotting, what I mean is that the calcium wants very badly to become Carbonite and does, it has constricted my pumps 3 times in the last 6 months. I have tried to do large water changes using fresh salt and RO/DI water 3 - 20 gal changes, and 3 - 15 gal changes. Now I begin to wonder about the magnesium more than ever.
The highest I go with the b ionic is 40 mils of the alk and 60 of the cal.
I have used a phosphate sponge starting last Monday which came out yesterday evening. 0.02 ppm.
New bag of chemi pure last week.
Can't think of anything else to add to my thoughts about what could be the matter with this thing.
Thomas
T
thomas712
Guest
Here Is my plan of action. Today I will dose the B- Ionic until Monday when I plan a water change to help bring things back in line, its also time for the water change, this day I will also dose with the b ionic. I will restart the drip Monday evening.
Now if I understand this article correctly I should
pour 15ml of 5% Acetic Acid (or ordinary Distilled White Vinegar from the grocery store -- same thing) into a 1 liter (1 quart) container. Dissolve 1/2 teaspoon of lab-grade Ca(OH)2 (or commercial Kalkwasser mix) in the Acetic Acid, and then dilute to 1 liter (1 quart) volume with either RO/DI water, or even tank water
To mix one gallon:
This means to a gallon of water I should use 60 mil of the vinigar to my 1 and 1/2 teaspoons of EVS kalk in a small mixing cup, now I dump that into my gallon jug then add my RO water then shake before use? let that settle for a couple of hours then I can start the drip?
One way or another I'm going to get this come coralline algea or high water.
Thomas
Now if I understand this article correctly I should
pour 15ml of 5% Acetic Acid (or ordinary Distilled White Vinegar from the grocery store -- same thing) into a 1 liter (1 quart) container. Dissolve 1/2 teaspoon of lab-grade Ca(OH)2 (or commercial Kalkwasser mix) in the Acetic Acid, and then dilute to 1 liter (1 quart) volume with either RO/DI water, or even tank water
To mix one gallon:
This means to a gallon of water I should use 60 mil of the vinigar to my 1 and 1/2 teaspoons of EVS kalk in a small mixing cup, now I dump that into my gallon jug then add my RO water then shake before use? let that settle for a couple of hours then I can start the drip?
One way or another I'm going to get this come coralline algea or high water.
Thomas
bang guy
Moderator
I'm no chemist so if someone chirps up I'll take a back seat. I don't believe it matters when you add the vinegar and it's 'Up To' 60ml per gallon. No reason to start with a full dose. Remember what Beth says... "Nothing good happens fast in SW".
Also use 'Up To' 2 tsp Kalk powder per gallon.
Don't use tank water, use RO/DI water. I totally disagree with the use of tank water. I hope nobody tries this.
Also use 'Up To' 2 tsp Kalk powder per gallon.
Don't use tank water, use RO/DI water. I totally disagree with the use of tank water. I hope nobody tries this.
broncofish
Active Member
I totaly agree with not using tank water...that was the one thing in the article where I was like what the heck??????? I believe the benefit of mixing in the vinegar is the lack of sediment you will see in your mix. When I did it up with just RO Kalk and vinegar it took a lot longer to absorb the kalk mix, and there was a lot more sediment in the mix. When I mix and then dilute I usually see no sediment in the mix. Also I don't need to mix as strongly I do about 1/4 of a teaspoon to 10ml of vinegar, and then dilute with the RO water. I to am no chemist so, maybe somebody else wiser than I (about 85% of the population I believe) has a better or scientific explanation for the vinegar I would love to hear it...
Also Thomas I may have missed it, but have you been testing your magnesium?
Also Thomas I may have missed it, but have you been testing your magnesium?
broncofish
Active Member
I would guess about half an hour, and then I add the RO it sits all day, and then I start the drip at night.....sorry response took so long my boss actually expected me to work for a little bit...the nerve of some people
working on a Friday
working on a Friday
broncofish
Active Member
Very good question sush...I hope somebody knows the answer....my container is an old 70's tupperware thing that I put the lid on, I'm sure some gets in there. If overanalyzer is reading he will know what tupperware I'm talking about
phoenixrising
Member
Well...day 2 of the new mix of vinegar and kalk. Found this morning that my ph was 7.90 (per pinpoint ph monitor)!!!! What's up with that?
Did my usual tests a short time ago with the following results:
calcium 440
dkh 8.0
alk 2.86
ph 8.13 (per pinpoint ph monitor...last calibrated about 3 weeks ago)
magnesium 1290
all tests done with salifert kits.
mixed the vinegar/kalk according to the article Bronco posted. That turned out to be 60ml vinegar to 2 tsp kalk to 1 gallon of water.
Corals look fabulous! Everything seems happy. No adverse effect noted from the addition of the vinegar except the test results are not the way I was hoping.
I add 5 gallons of the mixture to my top off reservoir and it takes roughly 2 days to infuse. There is quite a layer of "stuff" on the bottom of the reservoir from the kalk. The intake tube does not go into it.
Any suggestion for the next step?
Did my usual tests a short time ago with the following results:
calcium 440
dkh 8.0
alk 2.86
ph 8.13 (per pinpoint ph monitor...last calibrated about 3 weeks ago)
magnesium 1290
all tests done with salifert kits.
mixed the vinegar/kalk according to the article Bronco posted. That turned out to be 60ml vinegar to 2 tsp kalk to 1 gallon of water.
Corals look fabulous! Everything seems happy. No adverse effect noted from the addition of the vinegar except the test results are not the way I was hoping.
I add 5 gallons of the mixture to my top off reservoir and it takes roughly 2 days to infuse. There is quite a layer of "stuff" on the bottom of the reservoir from the kalk. The intake tube does not go into it.
Any suggestion for the next step?
phoenixrising
Member
P.S. I have really learned alot in this thread. My thanks to Thomas who started it and all of you who have supplied valuable insights!
T
thomas712
Guest
Ah just a reminder of Bang Guys post about going slow. That vinegar is max at 60 mils.
Heeding the slow is better advice I have mixed up a batch of Kalk tonight. 30 mils vinegar + 1 1/2 teaspoons of kalk, mix then add 1 gallon of RO water, shake, let stand for a few hours, then I will start the drip at 9:30 tonight. I will contiune the B-ionic additions until the alk and calc are at the levels that are acceptable.
If you like this thread give it a star raiting.
Question for you all out there.
While dripping kalk, will adding calcium and buffer in another form upset anything, will I see precipitation sooner, should I take it slower with the additional additives by cutting them in half, or just test and dose till I have the right level.
Thomas
Heeding the slow is better advice I have mixed up a batch of Kalk tonight. 30 mils vinegar + 1 1/2 teaspoons of kalk, mix then add 1 gallon of RO water, shake, let stand for a few hours, then I will start the drip at 9:30 tonight. I will contiune the B-ionic additions until the alk and calc are at the levels that are acceptable.
If you like this thread give it a star raiting.
Question for you all out there.
While dripping kalk, will adding calcium and buffer in another form upset anything, will I see precipitation sooner, should I take it slower with the additional additives by cutting them in half, or just test and dose till I have the right level.
Thomas
T
thomas712
Guest
An observation that I have made now when mixing the kalk powder twice with vinigar, the liquid gets much clearer, does not clump as much. Before the liquid was cloudy for a day then cleared up to a slightly cloudy mix with that skin forming on the top and that residue on the bottom. Last couple of times now there has been very little film on top and much less residue on the bottom.
Todays test scores are:
Alk 3.2
cal 390
So I am slowly moving back up the ladder, and continue the use of the the B-ionic, dosing now at 30 mils each to keep it even.
Thomas
Todays test scores are:
Alk 3.2
cal 390
So I am slowly moving back up the ladder, and continue the use of the the B-ionic, dosing now at 30 mils each to keep it even.
Thomas