OMG!!! Enough is enough

darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2962750
You keep attributing Bush as the reason we've had no attacks, but again, it was the enactment of the Homeland Security Act that's kept the terrorist at bay. Bush had his hands in developing this Act, but he wasn't 'The Great Savior' against terrorism you seem to want to annoint him with. Mr. Historian can relish us with the how/when/why the Act happened when it did. If Bush was so intent with "keeping America safe", then by that logic, he should've never let 9/11 happen. He had over a year to make the changes, but didn't do it. Bush's War isn't the prime reason we haven't had attacks on US soil. It's the extreme measures put into place with the HSA that have done that.
Journey's answer that you quoted about
"See anymore terrorists attacks, Thank You" Was in response to
"What did Bush do That was so great"
Bush Signed the act. That is what he did, he called for it....Not Clinton, but Bush. And through this act and other actions he signed into law we have not had anymore attacks. Even if you can't give full credit to him, you still have to give credit to his administration (he picked) that assisted in drafting the bill. So either way, he inadvertently had a huge hand in keeping us safe after 9/11. And did a far better job than the previous president.
None of this you can deny. I am using your own position on what you think kept us safe even, and it still leads back to Bush and his chosen administration.
And he did not have over a year to get it pushed through.....No wonder this country is going down the tubes, Grown adults can't even remember something that occurred just less than a decade ago.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2962750
If Bush was so intent with "keeping America safe", then by that logic, he should've never let 9/11 happen. He had over a year to make the changes, but didn't do it.
What's the date Bush was signed into office in your dimension? It did take about a year to rebuild the CIA and NSA after they were gutted by the previous administration.
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2962449
No more attacks planned? You might want to try informing yourself before making foolish statements.

First of all my opinions are my own. Thats usually why I stay out of these threads b/c the misinformation is just astounding. What do you think 95% of the internet is crap?
Now you and journey are telling me that you equate the terrorists now with Germany's Hitler and WWII? Really? And we didn't get into the war for how many years of Hitler's reign? 4-5 maybe or more? The terrorists today have full government backing, organized troops? Understand the engagements of war. REALLY? I think you best look again and talk to some folks that were there! B/c its not even close! Sounds like a major justification to me!
The other statement about bolstering the security agencies is a joke. Didn't Pres Bush say on national TV he wished he had better information. Now there is money well spent.
So you can tell me with certainty that Pres. Bush is the only reason for us not to have another attack? Really. None of the other world leaders had anything to do with it? Right? And the piece of legislation passed by him is the sole reason for this. UMMM NO!
The Act that is by most Constitution scholars patently say is unconstitutional period. That is a FACT! SO if Pres Bush has nothing to worry about lets put them all on trail and see what shakes out. Lets take it out of the media (worthless) and put it all on the table!
Lets go.
The FACT of the matter is we (all of us) know TRULY NOTHING about this. Its conjecture and opinion. I have mine and you have yours. Doesn't make me any more a fool than you!
Please don't pull the "I know someone in Iraq Bla Bla...."
So do I......and more than likely saved a solider(s) from being thrown in jail.......
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2962777
Journey's answer that you quoted about
"See anymore terrorists attacks, Thank You" Was in response to
"What did Bush do That was so great"
Bush Signed the act. That is what he did, he called for it....Not Clinton, but Bush. And through this act and other actions he signed into law we have not had anymore attacks. Even if you can't give full credit to him, you still have to give credit to his administration (he picked) that assisted in drafting the bill. So either way, he inadvertently had a huge hand in keeping us safe after 9/11. And did a far better job than the previous president.
None of this you can deny. I am using your own position on what you think kept us safe even, and it still leads back to Bush and his chosen administration.
And he did not have over a year to get it pushed through.....No wonder this country is going down the tubes, Grown adults can't even remember something that occurred just less than a decade ago.
No journey's take has nothing to do with the HSA. He's attributing Bush's success to that little war he loves so much. He wants you to believe that if we didn't start the Iraq conflict, we'd been overrun my terrorists years ago. My statement is the HSA is the primary reason for keeping the terror threats low all these years, and the Iraq conflict did nothing but quell the fears and outrage Americans had after 9/11 with the Middle Easteners. Bush signed the act because the American public wanted assurances 9/11 wouldn't happen again. All the naysayers of the HSA back when Clinton couldn't push it through changed their minds real quick after the Towers fell.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2962894
No journey's take has nothing to do with the HSA. He's attributing Bush's success to that little war he loves so much. He wants you to believe that if we didn't start the Iraq conflict, we'd been overrun my terrorists years ago. My statement is the HSA is the primary reason for keeping the terror threats low all these years, and the Iraq conflict did nothing but quell the fears and outrage Americans had after 9/11 with the Middle Easteners. Bush signed the act because the American public wanted assurances 9/11 wouldn't happen again. All the naysayers of the HSA back when Clinton couldn't push it through changed their minds real quick after the Towers fell.

And thus like I did previously, using your viewpoint on why we are safe still today, you still have to give Bush Credit for that...because of these laws he signed in. That is my whole point. He asked for them, within a week of 9/11 we had Homeland security formed and running. Regardless he brought it about....and deserves the credit for that as you say, keeping us safe. What did the previous president do during his administration to ensure us to be safe?
I am not using Journey's arguement, i am using your own. You give Clinton credit for balancing the budget, even though congress wrote and passed that bill..It is the same thing.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by TurningTim
http:///forum/post/2962828
First of all my opinions are my own. Thats usually why I stay out of these threads b/c the misinformation is just astounding. What do you think 95% of the internet is crap?
Now you and journey are telling me that you equate the terrorists now with Germany's Hitler and WWII? Really? And we didn't get into the war for how many years of Hitler's reign? 4-5 maybe or more? The terrorists today have full government backing, organized troops? Understand the engagements of war. REALLY? I think you best look again and talk to some folks that were there! B/c its not even close! Sounds like a major justification to me!
The other statement about bolstering the security agencies is a joke. Didn't Pres Bush say on national TV he wished he had better information. Now there is money well spent.
So you can tell me with certainty that Pres. Bush is the only reason for us not to have another attack? Really. None of the other world leaders had anything to do with it? Right? And the piece of legislation passed by him is the sole reason for this. UMMM NO!
The Act that is by most Constitution scholars patently say is unconstitutional period. That is a FACT! SO if Pres Bush has nothing to worry about lets put them all on trail and see what shakes out. Lets take it out of the media (worthless) and put it all on the table!
Lets go.
The FACT of the matter is we (all of us) know TRULY NOTHING about this. Its conjecture and opinion. I have mine and you have yours. Doesn't make me any more a fool than you!
Please don't pull the "I know someone in Iraq Bla Bla...."
So do I......and more than likely saved a solider(s) from being thrown in jail.......
You said no other attacks were planned. That in it's self shows you have no understanding of the subject at hand. You can try to change the conversation to Iraq all you want but that doesn't change the fact there were more attacks planned on the US that were thwarted by the Government. Lackawanna 6 ring a bell?
But I guess Bush doesn't deserve credit for anything the government did right while he was in office, just what the press says went wrong.
 
moprint

moprint

Member
TurningTim please post one name of a Constitution scholar that thinks the Patriot Act is unconstitutional. OT but if you are writing checks for 50k for your taxes and the R/T in your avatar is your car, you must really love Dodge.
 
oscardeuce

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by beazalbob69
http:///forum/post/2962110
And I am truly sorry if I offend anyone by this next comment but..
Most of the people I know who go into the military do it because they dont have any better options or for the sign on bonus or to prove that they are true Men or Women. They dont do it to help some poor Iraqi on the other side of the planet. I guess that leads back to my 1st point.
Them's fight'n words were I come from.
I agree you know not what you do.
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
http://jonathanturley.org/2007/09/26...onstitutional/
I have no clue what you're saying. Its an SRT and yes I'm proud of my American CAR. I'm I the only one with a nice car and a SW tank? Would yop prefer my dogs. I didn't realize I was just so offensive.
DO you pay 40% of your income to the government? How about paying for everything your self? Insurance, accounting etc etc.? Don't I have every right to be upset when I see my money being flushed?
Moprint I have plenty more if you like. Just search the Patriot act and constitution. Pretty easy.......
I can throw in a couple of judges too!
Whatever folks.
 
moprint

moprint

Member
Well if it's so unconstitutional I am sure it will be righted by the current administration. As far as the Dodge comment just a little nudging ya, I got an 07 Pontiac GXP gotta like those V-8s. I don't get a refund if that is what you are talking about, well haven't for a couple years. I think your money and mine is being flushed more foolishly now then before, 30 mill for a mouse?? People who don't even have job getting a check!! WTF?? A high speed rail line from LA to Vegas?? ACORN is gonna end up with a big chunk too. I just wish my governor would be like Alaska and Texas and tell them thanks but no thanks. What do you think CA is gonna with their chunk?? Their gonna pay their debt off then go on just like before. Then when stimulus package 2 comes around it will be the same thing all over. If you have kids look at them it's their money being spent now ours is long gone. The war in Iraq is the right thing to be doing and always has been. I served in the first Gulf War and been there done that and seen stuff that shouldn't ever be seen.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by TurningTim
http:///forum/post/2963209
http://jonathanturley.org/2007/09/26...onstitutional/
I have no clue what you're saying. Its an SRT and yes I'm proud of my American CAR. I'm I the only one with a nice car and a SW tank? Would yop prefer my dogs. I didn't realize I was just so offensive.
DO you pay 40% of your income to the government? How about paying for everything your self? Insurance, accounting etc etc.? Don't I have every right to be upset when I see my money being flushed?
Moprint I have plenty more if you like. Just search the Patriot act and constitution. Pretty easy.......
I can throw in a couple of judges too!
Whatever folks.

According to those who count the patriot act is constitutional. Doesn't really matter what you or anyone else thinks.
You didn't really use Dodge and nice car in the same sentence did you

I thought about picking up a new Challenger but I think we are going to take advantage of the housing market and buy a second house and turn this one into a rental instead. As much as I like not having a house ou car payment I can make too much getting into a second house now.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
1) I fault Bush and the Republicans for paying American companies to move production overseas with tax breaks to the companies that did it.
2) I fault Clinton for making the terror attacks all over the world, a criminal investigation and not a real war. But to be fair, Reagan (one of my childhood heroes)didn't see the big picture either after the Beirut bombing.
3) Can we all be honest and just admit that a large part of the stimulus bill is a liberal wish-list and not stimulus?
4) Tim, you have the coolest sedan ever made. I envy you and next year hope to own one as well.
5) Regardless of how they got there or why, we have thousands of the bravest men and women to ever wear our nations colors putting their lives on the line for us. God bless them and may we, at least, step back from politics and say a prayer for their safety every day they are in harms way. I pray they know how much we love and cherish them. And may God wrap the heroes who have fallen into His loving arms. For no others are so worthy.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/2963819
1) I fault Bush and the Republicans for paying American companies to move production overseas with tax breaks to the companies that did it.

I agree you can fault them for not recinding the U.S.-China Relations Act of 2000, but Bush wasn't president until 2001.
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2963764
According to those who count the patriot act is constitutional. Doesn't really matter what you or anyone else thinks.
You didn't really use Dodge and nice car in the same sentence did you

I thought about picking up a new Challenger but I think we are going to take advantage of the housing market and buy a second house and turn this one into a rental instead. As much as I like not having a house ou car payment I can make too much getting into a second house now.
Actually Reef I was out with a Realtor agent last night. There is so much on the market in our area in scary.
The challenger is no doubt very cool but with 2 kids I need the 4 door. Same car basically. I think its a touch lighter.
Here's the issue, Its was held up by Clinton for questions on its constitutionality. But just b/c 9/11 happened its constitutional. I hope we're all ready to travel down that slippery slope.
Last I heard wire tapping w/o a warrant is illegal?
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
And of course it matters what I (we) think. Would you like to lose a suspected terrorists to a very defendable case? B/c its has no constitutional "legs". This is what is going to happen! All its takes is the right defense attorney, the right judge and wow what a can of worms you're going to have on your hands......
And wouldn't the next package be #3? I'm not speaking of tax returns. I'm talking about the stimulus, house bailouts etc etc.
So a high school drop out like me who did everything "right" now has to bail out all those who over spent and didn't pay their bills.
I hear so many stories of people just not trying. "I'll live here until they kick me out" But they'll take every ounce of cash they can out of their house and split.
Great attitude don't ya think?
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
I'm on board with you Tim.
The vast majority of the mortga ge forclosures in the past couple of years are from people that speculated on the housing prices. They overbought hoping the value of real estate would continue to climb and they would be able to sell for a tidy profit.
I'm not against making profit, but why should taxpayers be footing the bill for a risk gone bad? Most of these people have almost no equity in the property anyway so they can walk away without much of a loss.
The people we should be bailing out are those that have worked hard all their lives and now find themselves unemployed. These people have been paying their taxes faithfully every year and now is the time they temporarily need some help.
Instead we're going to give money to people that have never in their entire lives paid their share of taxes. I call pandering for votes.
The Stimulus bill, it is hoped by the politicials that voted it in, will create or preserve 3.5 Million jobs. That's the number I keep hearing come out of Washington on the optimistic side. So, $787 Billion for 3.5 million jobs is $225,000 per job. Does anyone out there really believe this is the best way to create US jobs?
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
I just want to get my $13.00 a week
so I can start buying my chickens, and pigs and seeds for my garden. I'm diggin in for a long haul here...Oh, gotta stock up on ammo too....$13.00 don't go too far these days, gotta make it count you know.

It makes me sick to think that instead of a big deep even temporary tax cut, we come up with this stinking plan. Help the unscrupulous, the cheats never mind the honest, hard working etc....
Anybody wanna buy some tomatoes? I'm taking pre orders right now, I speculate I can get at least 30-40 a week. Nice big red juicy ones....
How bout some romaine lettuce? Anybody.......
 
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