On being rude

[ccampbell57]

Joe - I have seen most of your responses lately and have noticed that there are better ways to go about telling people what should be done. Part of our duty as experienced aquarists is to educate and re-educate those that have little to no experience. I understand where you are coming from. I understand your passion for our hobby. I understand your beliefs. But puting people down and calling them out for being stupid does not help them in an already tough time. They are asking for our help. If they could turn back time, then they would, but they need to move forward. Like my mom always said, no use in crying over spilled milk.
Some people do not understand or believe in QT'ing their fish. This is a big issue IMO for some fish. When you have a Reef tank, QT is 100% required. In a FO tank, QT can be 50/50. I have 2 QT systems and use them depending on the size of the fish that I am introducing.
There are however some fish that cannot and should not be put into QT. For example, my 9" crosshatch trigger that was net caught in Hawaii. In a 55g or even 75g QT he would freak and may introduce more issues than putting him straight into the big tank. I also know how to treat a 240g system for all sorts of issues and am always ready to do so.
My experience with my expensive and large fish is to not cause them more stress by moving them but to keep them in the tank they are used to and treating them on the spot.
I think that if you do not respond to people and add your expertise it would be a shame. It is your decision and we cannot tell you what to do. My suggestion would be to help solve the issue rather than preach what they should have seen in hind sight.
This is just my 2cents

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2486204
My friend my very first thread in these boards was asking why fish I have maintained for years are suddenly dieing after finally adding a new fish I was well aware of the need to Quarantine but i was looking for a reason to shift the blame with it was really out of just plan laziness I rolled the dice and lost it just hurts me so to see people going through the same thing perhaps if I had some one being rude to me and calling me on my laziness things may have been different
What would have happened if you had come hear looking for help and people were rude to you? Do you really think that a light bulb would have gone on for you, or do you think that you would have thought that we were all rude people who think that our way is the only way? I would not go back to a site if I was asking for help and I just got yelled at. Sometimes people have to fail more than once to realize that they should change their methods. There are many different circumstances involved with each thread on here. I have asked people before why they would make the same mistake again. I let them know that I am well aware of their other issues with the tank. I then go ahead and help them. There are other people that make honest, new hobbyist, mistakes. My point is that you can explain to them without being rude about it. You help out a lot on these boards, and it is certainly appreciated.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by gspitz
http:///forum/post/2486294
I'll tell you what's frustrating Florida Joe-- reading your posts! Please use some punctuation (periods) in there somewhere.

I do hear you though!
I can defiantly see the similarities between run on sentences and losing fish

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by ccampbell57
http:///forum/post/2486338
Joe - I have seen most of your responses lately and have noticed that there are better ways to go about telling people what should be done. Part of our duty as experienced aquarists is to educate and re-educate those that have little to no experience. I understand where you are coming from. I understand your passion for our hobby. I understand your beliefs. But puting people down and calling them out for being stupid does not help them in an already tough time. They are asking for our help. If they could turn back time, then they would, but they need to move forward. Like my mom always said, no use in crying over spilled milk.
Some people do not understand or believe in QT'ing their fish. This is a big issue IMO for some fish. When you have a Reef tank, QT is 100% required. In a FO tank, QT can be 50/50. I have 2 QT systems and use them depending on the size of the fish that I am introducing.
There are however some fish that cannot and should not be put into QT. For example, my 9" crosshatch trigger that was net caught in Hawaii. In a 55g or even 75g QT he would freak and may introduce more issues than putting him straight into the big tank. I also know how to treat a 240g system for all sorts of issues and am always ready to do so.
My experience with my expensive and large fish is to not cause them more stress by moving them but to keep them in the tank they are used to and treating them on the spot.
I think that if you do not respond to people and add your expertise it would be a shame. It is your decision and we cannot tell you what to do. My suggestion would be to help solve the issue rather than preach what they should have seen in hind sight.
This is just my 2cents
I understand and appreciate your input, but I don’t think I every called anyone stupid

 

[coachklm]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2486403
I can defiantly see the similarities between run on sentences and losing fish

my point exactly .....

ignore and stay to the subject at hand please....

told ya so..lol

my vote goes to......
recognizing frustration w/ newcomers
being able to swallow some anger and still help them out...
without an attitude that may make them resent the hobby
and ignoring their one sided comments.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2486342
What would have happened if you had come hear looking for help and people were rude to you? Do you really think that a light bulb would have gone on for you, or do you think that you would have thought that we were all rude people who think that our way is the only way? I would not go back to a site if I was asking for help and I just got yelled at. Sometimes people have to fail more than once to realize that they should change their methods. There are many different circumstances involved with each thread on here. I have asked people before why they would make the same mistake again. I let them know that I am well aware of their other issues with the tank. I then go ahead and help them. There are other people that make honest, new hobbyist, mistakes. My point is that you can explain to them without being rude about it. You help out a lot on these boards, and it is certainly appreciated.
LOL I will start my sensitivity awareness course on Monday. Seriously I will try to be more diplomatic. Hay look I even used two periods in this post

 

[florida joe]

v
Originally Posted by coachKLM
http:///forum/post/2486413

my point exactly .....

ignore and stay to the subject at hand please....

told ya so..lol

my vote goes to......
recognizing frustration w/ newcomers
being able to swallow some anger and still help them out...
without an attitude that may make them resent the hobby
and ignoring their one sided comments.
Hay just saw your wounded vet let me get off the topic and say somthing I never heard when i came home "welcome home"

 

[florida joe]

Imagine if for better of worse this thread got just one more person to set up a QT/HT

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2486414
LOL I will start my sensitivity awareness course on Monday. Seriously I will try to be more diplomatic. Hay look I even used two periods in this post
Sounds like a plan

I know it is frustrating. I have to take a deep breath sometimes to. I have had people tell me that I am wrong and that I don't know what I am talking about, just to come back and ask for help from me (by name). The one that I am thinking of in particular, no names, came back with an attitude. I walked the person through the treatment and it all worked out well. You sometimes just have to laugh it off and understand how frustrated they are.

 

[coachklm]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2486417
v
Hay just saw your wounded vet let me get off the topic and say somthing I never heard when i came home "welcome home"
thanks...
with my PTSD, TBI, and paralysis(no use of my right hand)
I consider myself lucky to be alive and it's an honor to me to find something I'm passionate about(SWF) and be able to help others mentally if no longer physically.

 

[al mc]

My take on this Joe. We all come to the table with our own frame of reference. Mine....In my chosen line of work....The sad fact is that only 50% of pet (dog/cat) owners seek medical attention of any type (preventative or because of illness) during the life of their pet. So, I always remind myself and my staff that even if we have someone who has done something out of ignorance/neglect with their pet and come to us for help that at least they are part of the 50% of pet owners that seek some help. If we chastise them, demean them, or in some way make them feel bad not only will they not come back to us...they may never seek advice again.
Who wins? No one Who loses? The pet, the client and our business.
This forum is like that. People that come here are all of different backgrounds, ages and experience levels in this hobby. There questions may be ones you have answered hundreds of times. They may not take your advice and come back with a bigger problem.
But, at least they ask. They may not get it the first time or the 50th time but at least they ask.
I came to this forum for help with Ich. I got the advice/info I needed here that my LFS never provided. It is a good place to learn. IMHO we should not demean or chastise. It would be better to skip comment on a particular thread than to put an answer that would turn someone elsewhere for advice (LFS) or not seek advice at all.
No one wins in that scenario. The big loser is the animal(s).

 

[alexmir]

For the sake of joe, i have been reading about QT'ing fish, and i havent ever done it with my fish, and have had 1 or 2 problems.
But the clown i added today is now in a QT tank, i read the posts and figured i wouldnt want to put the fish in danger, because it is very small, and i dont want to kill my tank when im almost done adding fish.
I havent read any of your old posts where you were rude, not saying you were ever rude, just reading the title. But convinving people to research would be a good way to get them to realize how important it is.
I know thats nearly impossible to get someone to read when they are so excited about getting a new fish. I just remember how overwhelming it was when i didnt research at first, and had things going wrong, this site helped me alot. Just give help, and one less fish may die!!

 

[coachklm]

great perspective

and so true...

 

[beth]

No one ever won anybody over to their way of thinking by beating them over the head. When it comes to many things in this hobby, information and experience is the best way to convince people. In many hobbyists view, disease is something they'd prefer to forget about and so many play Russian roulette with their fish and display tanks. Eventually, most hobbyists who stay in the hobby realize that quarantining really is the only way to avoid major headaches and enjoy the hobby as it should be enjoyed.
We have all made a lot of mistakes. The main reason I know a few things about fish diseases is because of the mistakes I a have made. You learn from your mistake, and by researching and listening to others who have experience, not by having knock down fights with your fellow hobbyists in a "know it all fashion".
People learn by example, not by intimation or chastisements.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2486730
My take on this Joe. We all come to the table with our own frame of reference. Mine....In my chosen line of work....The sad fact is that only 50% of pet (dog/cat) owners seek medical attention of any type (preventative or because of illness) during the life of their pet. So, I always remind myself and my staff that even if we have someone who has done something out of ignorance/neglect with their pet and come to us for help that at least they are part of the 50% of pet owners that seek some help. If we chastise them, demean them, or in some way make them feel bad not only will they not come back to us...they may never seek advice again.
Who wins? No one Who loses? The pet, the client and our business.
This forum is like that. People that come here are all of different backgrounds, ages and experience levels in this hobby. There questions may be ones you have answered hundreds of times. They may not take your advice and come back with a bigger problem.
But, at least they ask. They may not get it the first time or the 50th time but at least they ask.
I came to this forum for help with Ich. I got the advice/info I needed here that my LFS never provided. It is a good place to learn. IMHO we should not demean or chastise. It would be better to skip comment on a particular thread than to put an answer that would turn someone elsewhere for advice (LFS) or not seek advice at all.
No one wins in that scenario. The big loser is the animal(s).
First I would like to thank you for clarifying my crimes not only am I rude but I am also demeaning and guilty of chastising and I am sure you have many many instances of this to back up your claim. Have no fear though I am slowly coming over to your side. Being rude to a person who is not a novice in this hobby but still puts their fish at risk is a crime worse then actually exposing that fish to infestation

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/2486822
No one ever won anybody over to their way of thinking by beating them over the head. When it comes to many things in this hobby, information and experience is the best way to convince people. In many hobbyists view, disease is something they'd prefer to forget about and so many play Russian roulette with their fish and display tanks. Eventually, most hobbyists who stay in the hobby realize that quarantining really is the only way to avoid major headaches and enjoy the hobby as it should be enjoyed.
We have all made a lot of mistakes. The main reason I know a few things about fish diseases is because of the mistakes I a have made. You learn from your mistake, and by researching and listening to others who have experience, not by having knock down fights with your fellow hobbyists in a "know it all fashion".
People learn by example, not by intimation or chastisements.
And just where are all these people that are learning by example certainly not on these boards just take a look at the disease forum the oh you have to live and learn by your own mistakes is doing a hell of a lot of good on the fish population

 

[al mc]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2486836
First I would like to thank you for clarifying my crimes not only am I rude but I am also demeaning and guilty of chastising and I am sure you have many many instances of this to back up your claim. Have no fear though I am slowly coming over to your side. Being rude to a person who is not a novice in this hobby but still puts their fish at risk is a crime worse then actually exposing that fish to infestation
If I have offended you or anyone else with this comment. please accept my apologie(s).

You had started the thread about this subject but my comments were meant to apply to the way I believe everyone (including myself) should handle answering questions or giving advice.
Personally I feel that the factual advice you give is sound. How any of us (not just you or I)
decide how to deliver that advice is obviously our own.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2486874
If I have offended you or anyone else with this comment. please accept my apologie(s).

You had started the thread about this subject but my comments were meant to apply to the way I believe everyone (including myself) should handle answering questions or giving advice.
Personally I feel that the factual advice you give is sound. How any of us (not just you or I)
decide how to deliver that advice is obviously our own.

Maybe its time to put this to rest my friend in the long run all I or any of us that truly love this hobby what to do is what is best for the gift that god has allowed us to observe in our homes

 

[al mc]

Agreed...Al

 

[all108]

Joe, I agree, people on the board can be a little arrogant with their comments. QT isn't always necessary with fish, I think people should only post ADVICE, and constructive help, not criticisms. I joined this for help, and it sucks when people get rude or make a comment implying that I may be a 'irresponsible fish keeper.'
However I own a reef tank, so I see perks in setting up the QT to get faster treatment for my fish without hurting my anemone etc. I hope you don't keep having such bad luck!