OT Recent debates over SUVs

wrassecal

wrassecal

Active Member
It wasn't a joke and anyone driving any car who causes an accident where death is involved has to live with it. I was only pointing out that it could just as easily be the mom in the little car causing the accident as the mom in the SUV. If we made little cars safer for our families we wouldn't all be out there buying SUV's just to drive the kids around. Last year in my town, a small car made a left hand turn across traffic, against a red light, at night on a four lane divided highway. The small car was packed with 6 people, none of whom were wearing seat belts. Totally obeying the law was a mom driving the speed limit on the highway in her Ford Expedition which of course the small car turned in front of and got hit. Three people were killed in the small car. No one was seriously injured in the Expedition. If the Expedition driver had been driving a small car and hit at 55 miles per hour into a car making an illegal turn at night what would have happened to her family? Are you saying she should knowingly put her family into an inferior vehicle and risk her children's lives when she can afford to buy them something that has the ability to protect their lives in a situation like that? "Soccer Moms" buy SUV's for safety, that's why it's become the woman's family car of choice. We don't really care about the other issues. Believe me if it wasn't a safety issue and just me to think about and status was my goal, I'd be tooling around in a cute little beemer.
 
drkegel

drkegel

Member
Overanalyzer -
Interesting opinions. However, I think your information might be a tad bit incorrect.
As an engineering student, I can assure you that the big auto manufacturers are investing heavily in research and development of alternative fuels. I have personally been a part of a few such endeavors - including the Solar Vehicle Project - funded in part by GM.
As far as retooling - every manufacturer retools every year. They have to - because each model year invariably offers a few design changes over the previous model year. A typical auto maker's manufacturing facility is shut down for a month while retooling takes place. We're not talking about re-inventing the wheel here at any rate. The assembly line will still work for making the cars of the future.
The auto-makers know the future isn't in internal combustion. And they also know that the fuel cell isn't to the point it needs to be to make the consumer happy (performance wise), but they are getting closer to that point. They know the EPA 2006 deadline is now less than three years away, and they are working hard to meet theose requirements in time.
I have many intelligent friends that work for auto companies, aerospace companies, and other major oil consumers. And all of them got jobs to work on developing cheaper, more efficient means of moving people from place to place.
The people that don't want to see the end of the reign of internal combustion are the oil companies. Oil is the livelihood of many people in the world, and many nations in this world. If there were no more gasoline or diesel engines or planes, don't you think the oil companies would suffer while the manufacturer's of the planes and cars would still survive if not thrive, provided they had marketed a viable alternative? An alternative that would perform just as well (if not better), cost the same (or less) to maintain and own, and who's only "exhaust" was pure water?
I'm with the majority of the people on this board. Drive what you want, or what you can afford. That said, I don't think the American way of driving whatever you want is a license to be ignorant of your actions.
I laughed when I read those ads: the only way to truly not support terrorism is to not use any oil-based products whatsoever. For example: no PVC, it's petroleum based. (many plastics are) Can't ride your bike, because the oil or grease you use on the chain may have come from a nation that supports terrorism. Cars? Forget it. Camping with propane or kerosene? Forget it. Most trains in this country run on oil-based products - so you can't use those either. Don't ride the bus - there's diesel in those - not to mention a lot of plastic. Leave those rubbermaid containers on the shelf. Can't fly anywhere - those fuel-loving planes might support Osama's buddies. The keyboard I'm using is plastic. The power plant here might run on oil - I guess I'd better go....
 
wrassecal

wrassecal

Active Member
That's my point, make smaller cars safer and more family friendly. However, in this example I doubt that driving a smaller car would have improved her night vision. Sorry, I left out the part where the idiots in the small car were playing at a game where they drive around with their headlights off. It's all about "life experience" and I've seen it save lives where maybe some have seen it the other way.
 
entice59

entice59

Active Member
i still dont understand why people drive SUV's here in SF, i know they dont go anywhere outside of the bayarea and they dont go to the outdoors.... i personally hate them in the city, their lights are so freaking bright i cant see anything when they pass by plus they take up too much parking in a city that is already packed as it is.... why didnt they just go with a mercedes or a bmw or a nice sports car?
I guess its the feeling that your invincible since your higher then the rest of the cars
hahahaha, Wrassecal , in goldengate park, me and my friends tried that... it was pitch black, lets say in less then 10 seconds of driving slowly we turned it back on as quick as possible so we didnt hit a tree
 
broncofish

broncofish

Active Member
The following information came from IIHS and NHTSA
The five safest cars of all time:
Buick LeSabre (model year 2000)
Honda Civic (model year 2001)
Lincoln LS (model year 2001)
Volkswagen Passat (model years 2000 and 2001)
Volvo S80 (model years 2001)
The inclusion of the Honda Civic on the list might be an eye-opener. Many people assume it's best to be in the heaviest vehicle available. However, some of the heaviest vehicles currently available, notably SUVs, are prone to rollover accidents.
So how many SUV drivers are going to run out and buy a buik, or a civic. None because they like the way they look in their SUV's. Maybe if all of us did as much research in car buying, as we do in tank setup we would not be everyday driving SUV's.
 
maryc137

maryc137

Member
I've had several SUV's in the past, although I don't own one now. All this controversy just makes me want to go trade my Camaro in on another SUV. And by the way, I do feel I would be much safer in one. When going on a long trip we usually drive my husband's Dodge 3/4 4x4.
Also, that rich lady who was behind those commercials---I'd like to know how much fuel it takes to heat her 8000 square foot home compared to my 1600 one. I'll bet I use way less fuel and/or energy with my home and vehicles, even counting the reef tank.
 
overanalyzer

overanalyzer

Active Member
Dr Kegel -
I too have several friends who have interneed and work in the automotive field (grew up in the rust belt). My point is that it will be highly expensive for the automanufacturers to change any more than the letter of the law requires! Even then it will be expensive!
Dr K states: "I have many intelligent friends that work for auto companies, aerospace companies, and other major oil consumers. And all of them got jobs to work on developing cheaper, more efficient means of moving people from place to place. "
Is this why the personal aircraft is up for auction on ---- ? LOL - just wanted to throw that in there .
That statement is why I say we raise the tax on this over consuming vehicles and put 1/3rd of it towards improving public transit ....
I know there are conspiracy theorists out there who think the oil companies and automanufacturers are sitting on an internal combustion engine that runs on water and is made out of ceramics .... whatever ...
Wrassecal - people driving like idiots doesn't require a SUV or a small car - just a lack of gray matter!! Right now there is an issue in KC of some teens drivign around in an old full size car ramming people ... it has happened once for sure and they believe two other accidents with parked cars can be linked (J21Kickster - you better hide your MR2!!)
OBTW - some of the safest new cars are smaller cars - like the new VW Beetle and the BMW Minicooper .... of course take an Excursion up and over one and .....
I don't think the people in charge of the Detriot Project really believe that by buying any petrol based product you are a 100% terrorist - I think - as I stated earlier:
The Detroit Project wanted to get people talking - and it looks like they have.
I think the overgeneralizing of hte point of everything being plastics is a way to mask the arguement that SUVs are wasteful of natural resources. Lets put it another way - if the method used to harvest SWF resulted in say 15-20% effenciency - meaning 80-85% die off would that be responsible for the reefs of the world? I know gasoline effiecieny ranges depending upon use from anywhere from 3% efficent to 48-52% effeciency so my numbers are pruely hypothetical - but still with 40% die off - would that be good??
Also - please note - I realize the oil and gas is just sitting there - and I am all for using it - but I believe we need to use it more wisely and also do more work in finding ways around being tied to one fossil fuel - we need re-useable efficent fuels - sure in 2006 the automakers will have to have a handful of cars that are highly efficeint and emmisions standards for all vehicles will improve ...
Still not enough ....
I am too big a comfort guy to go back to the pre-Gasoline engine day - I'd never make it as an amish guy ....
 
entice59

entice59

Active Member
Honda Civic? man that is an eye opener. Volvos IMO are built like tanks, so are mercedes, ive seen those car chases and hit after hit they keep going
 
broncofish

broncofish

Active Member
Just so you guys no I'm not a hypocrit. I'm giving up my ride, the beloved bronco(I do love it), for a fuel sipping, safer vehicle.
 
buzz

buzz

Active Member
Rollover statistics are hysterical as well. They put those vehicles through such rigorous testing, of course they will flip. They drive them in a manner that most people never would under any circumstances, even evasively (as in avoiding accidents).
Hybrid cars are actually kind of cool. I've driven the Toyota Prius, and it actually has some power in that little engine. Also, to clarify, hybrid is just that...a combination of a gas engine with an electric motor. If it needs more power, or to go faster, the gas engine kicks in. The electric motor kicks in when driving normally. It does this all automatically depending on the driving conditions. However, they don't save all THAT much gas. The mileage on the Prius is only a few miles per gallon better than my Saturn SL.
But, IMO, with the economy getting tighter all the time, I think people will start looking to hybrids to save money in the long run.
And with SUV's - Should the auto industry try to make more fuel efficient engines on SUV's? Well, actually, I bet everyone would love that! Less money to spend on gas. But that would be the way to decrease the need for fuel consumption - not telling people not to drive their SUV's. However, many people are gullible, and I am sure there are many that will think twice now before buying an SUV, believing they are supporting terrorism, simply because someone said that was the case.
If you want an SUV, drive an SUV. If you want a race car, get one. But I do think this ad campaign will have an impact on what people do.
 
entice59

entice59

Active Member
just wondering about Hybrid cars, if i needed to replace something, wouldnt it cost more since you would probably have to go to specalized place to get it fixed, plus wouldnt the parts cost more? i want to get one in the future
 
buzz

buzz

Active Member
Probably right now, but the same holds true with any new technology - the cost/price goes down over time. I don't know exactly what the repair costs would be right now though.
Remember when DVD players came out? They were like $400-$500. Now you can pick one up for under $100.
 
entice59

entice59

Active Member
yeah i remember, i broke mines because i didnt know it wasnt CD-R compatable, costed 200 to fix it but i just blamed it because it was a demo. Very off topic but - remember when those razor scooters was 150+ dollars when it came out, after a year later its only 50 or less, then they tried adding a suspention string and a strap.. yeah.. same with furbys
i guess i'll have to hold off on the hybrid for now
i thought bush wanted us to spend spend spend esp with the tax refund check thing..... now its not okay to spend it on the car some people longed for, wont that screw around the economy even more since the SUV dealerships are practically screwed if no one buys an SUV? just a thought
 
iechy

iechy

Member
There are reasons for SUV's other than going off-roading. I have an infant and I am a fairly big guy and loading him into the car seat of my wife's car is torture. Also, you can say what you want about safety, but I like being higher up than cars around me so I can see what's going on ahead of me and I would say I have avoided accidents because of this in the past.
 
S

simm

Guest
I think regardless what I drive "anything" supports terrorism so they say. you buy gas from several major gas suppliers in America your supporting the midde east which in returns gives money to Al Quida. So why stop driving an SUV? Your other cars need gas. As a matter of fact the Government just passed a law that by 2005 ALL SUV's must meet new gas efficient laws. Like 17 in city and 22 highway!
 
broncofish

broncofish

Active Member

Originally posted by jamesurq
Bronco - glad you approve.:D
James I not only approve but I long for your car(wrx in case you guys did not know). I just can't seem to convince the wife that I need it, unless I completely get rid of the bronco. but hey I guess WRXfish does not sound so bad:D
 
broncofish

broncofish

Active Member
Yeah I know James, but I want to keep the bronco for Tahoe trips, and get a gas sipper for the everyday life.....If I get a WRX I will have to get rid of the bronco:( Maybe I would not miss the bronco though. Do you have the wagon, or the Sedan?
 
cyslyde

cyslyde

Member
The problem with those statistics are that they are based on tests and not real world accidents.... I know that they are designed to mimic what happens, but trust me driving a car into a wall at 50 mph is much diffrent than driving a car into another car at 50 mph... I mean come on for one, the other car will move if you hit it that hard. Yes you still have a pretty harsh impact, but it is sofened when not in a head on. and also as far as roll over statistics and other unsafe statistics, take this in for thought. If you really want a certin number to come up there are ways to do it... and if your banking your personal integrity on the line, I'm willing to bet your going to do whatever it takes to make those numbers do what you want tehm to.
and food for thought Yesterdays Corvari, todays SUV.... Corvairs were not as bad as ralph nader wanted you to believe... in fact their turning radius is simular to most of tadays small cars, and their handeling (suspension) had about the same reaction as that years camaro! hmm one car that isn't seen much today just because a politition wanted to get his name out, but thats a whole nother can of worms!
-=Cy
 
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