overflow DT

[tarball]

ok here's my last bad situation with my DT & sump set up.
OK, lets say I have a power out for 30 minutes & I'm away from home.
Pump loses electricity & the DT starts to drain into the sump.
The overflow will empty to sump causing a siphon break stopping flow to sump. I also drilled a 3/16 hole on the return flow tube from pump which will cause a siphon break back to sump stopping flow from DT..... Stopping flow to sump has been taken care of through siphon breaks.

My problem is when the electricity comes back on. the pump will begin to pump water back to the DT & will not stop until the pump chamber in the sump has emptied into DT, which will overflow the DT. The pump will also continue to run until I return home to stop it. This situation could cause the pump to burn up if I'm out of town.
There may be a small amount of water left in the bottom of the pump chamber in the sump, but it may not keep the pump cool enough to save it. Plus I'll have 10 gallons of saltwater on the floor from overflow from DT.
I must solve this problem, any ideas?

 

[trigger11]

I am not seeing the problem. If you have a tank which is drilled for your overflow then when the water gets below that line it will stop suckioning to your sump. So, then all you need to do is make sure there is enough space left in the sump for that much water to come down. When the power comes back on the pump will start back up and all is well.
If you have HOB overflow using a U-Tube siphon it will be the same way. As long as your HOB has the two different chambers as used in the Lifereef set up it wont lose siphon.
I believe more info will be needed about your system but you should be fine.

 

[earlybird]

I agree don't see the problem. Can you take a picture? Your overflow box should allow water back to the sump as the tank water rises. I dunno.

 

[tarball]

hmm, I have a hang on back overflow box 1 on the inside of tank & 1 on outside of tank connected together with a U-tube siphon tube. When I lose flow through the U-tube & get a siphon break the overflow box on the outside of tank will empty into sump. That's good !
BUT! when the pump starts back up after
electricity comes back on. The U-tube will not establish vacuum between the 2 boxes because the outside box has completely emptied into the sump. So that means It will not have any flow back to the sump from DT. So this means, when the pump picks up & delivers water back to the DT, it will overflow the DT before the pump chamber in the sump becomes empty. Why? because of lost siphon between the two overflow boxes. No flow back to sump
I will post some pictures.
Thanks for the help...

 

[shrimpi]

I know what you are talking about.
I also have the U-tube design. And, if your Utube loses suction, there will be no way for the water to return to the sump.
Try a fake power outtage. See what happens. When I pull the plug, the U tube DOESNT lose suction even though I thought it would.
About an inch of water stays in the part of the hang on back thats IN the tank, and the same amount on the outside (two places where utube touches. Mine doesnt lose suction.
IF yours does, there is a pump that will automatically restart suction for you in the event of a power outage, it sucks the air out of the top of the Utube, just like you had to do when you first started suction.
I live in S.Florida so with the hurricanes and all, I was also worried.
Have you tried to 'fake' an outtage yet? Just unplug everything and see what happens, it may not be an issue. Mine didnt lose suction even though I thought it would.
Jessica/Shrimpi

 

[tarball]

Originally Posted by Shrimpi
Have you tried to 'fake' an outage yet? Just unplug everything and see what happens, it may not be an issue. Mine didn't lose suction even though I thought it would.
Jessica/Shrimpi
Yes I have tried a fake electric outage, that's how i discovered the problem. When I plugged the pump back in, it almost overflowed the DT. If I hadn't unplugged the pump again it would of overflowed the DT.
The problem is the box on the outside of the tank completely empties into the sump. Also the hose that I use between the outside box & the sump completely empties also.
To get siphon going again I have to close the overflow ball valve that i have just before the sump. Fill the box & hose back up by pouring water back in them. Fill the U-tube back up.
Place U-tube back between both boxes then open ball valve again.
What a pain.

 

[turningtim]

As long as both U-tubes are submerged in water the U-tube will NOT lose siphon and will continue to flow water to the sump. Now if the U-tubes are not submerged then they will break. If you don't have a 2 chamber designed OF then you must put in a stand pipe in the bulkheads and make sure it is higher then the end of the U-tube. This will keep water in the rear box and siphon will not break.
HTH
Tim

 

[turningtim]

You need stand pipes.......

 

[tarball]

OK, heres a picture of the sump running with normal water level. when electricity is cut, water level rises at most 3/4 to 1 inch max.

 

[tarball]

OK here are some pictures. this first picture is of the sump.
Normal water level of sump with pump operating. When power is lost 3/4 of an inch rise of water level. No problems

 

[tarball]

this picture is of overflow. Black box is inside tank, clear box is outside of tank at back

 

[tarball]

same overflow from top

 

[tarball]

here is a top view, once power is lost the clear box on back of tank completely loses siphon & completely empties into sump. Will not recover siphon when pump picks back up.

 

[c42480]

I have the hob overflow also. What you need is in the part on the back of the tank, you need to a 1-2" tall pipe in the hose that goes to the sump. That way there is always 1-2" of water in the back part of the overflow and the u tubes always have water covering both ends. Here is a rough picture see how the u tube is lower that the sump drain. Dots are only used to not screw up the picture only look at the lines.
....u tube
|.| |...........|overflow back of tank
|.| |...........|
|.| | |..|.....|
|___| |___|
.......| |
.......| |
........drain

 

[tarball]

So its easy to see that the complete drain of the back clear box is the problem, because it breaks siphon. Would another U-tube help solve the problem. I have a 3/4 inch U-tube also. maybe it will help control the loss of flow going back to sump from clear box.
Also what is the clear box called?

Turning Tim, you have been a source of good info, can you tell me what stand pipes are & how they work. I'm not sure I understand how they can be above the U-tube.

 

[tarball]

OK c42480 great news, I see what you're saying. I have a 1 inch piece of pvc pipe that will work perfect for solving this problem..

THANKS A BUNCH!!! problem solved....

 

[c42480]

Glad i could help with my great artistic skills.
Chuck

 

[tarball]

got it

Thanks for the help earlybird, trigger11, shrimpi,
I see what you're talking about when you say stand pipe Turning Tim

Thanks again c42480

My overflow problems are solved, I've tested it & the overflow holds siphon....

 

[grubsnaek]

thats nuts as i kept reading further down i started to get what he was saying but didnt understand how until i saw the pic. then it came full circle. then i thought stand pipe. looked down some more and there it is.
good job kid,

 

[turningtim]

Tarball if the straight standpipe makes to much noise, like a toilet flushing. Try and make something like this. Durso or silent OF. Couple bucks at Lowes and you're good to go.....