Oxygen!

[fishymomma]

So, I want to have 2 clown fish & about 3 other little fish in my 30 gallon tank.. If I have a filter going,
a water pump (for water current) & 2 bubblers stones, will that be enough oxygen for that many fish
or will I want to increase the bubbles to make sure all the fish get plenty of oxygen?
The last thing I want is to have several fish in the tank and not have enough oxygen for them to survive.
How does one figure out if they have enough oxygen?

 

[blackjacktang]

Have you done your research about this hobby? You proboly will WANT a protien skimmer. And Live Rock And Sand.

 

[fishymomma]

I've got that.. but that is not what I am asking here.. My question is regarding the oxygen, not the
equipment that takes care of water quality. I have researched this hobby but even ones who have researched
and researched can have questions can't they. I love how you quickly assume I haven't researched enough
information. Ugh! Just please answer the question, don't come to conclusion.

 

[blackjacktang]

woah calm down. Just trying to help. If you have an open top then you probly would not need any airstone. I usall kept one in my 24g tank because the top was closed. So the answer is yes it should.

 

[slice]

You don't want bubble stones in a saltwater tank. In fact, most of us curse bubbles in our tanks.
Blackjacktang's remark is because most initial concerns are addressed in the stickie posts at the top of the New Hobbyist forum, including proper aeration.
Welcome to saltwater and to this site!

 

[fishymomma]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjacktang http:///forum/thread/383074/oxygen#post_3347565
Have you done your research about this hobby? You proboly will WANT a protien skimmer. And Live Rock And Sand.
It is really hard to understand where you are coming from in the above statement. It is clear to me that is sounded more like
a cut down rather then a question. I know you did have a question mark at the end of that statement, but sometimes it doesn't
matter. I have been on forums before where I ask a simple question and instead of getting a simple answer like I wanted, I either
get cut down for supposedly not knowing anything or else get a bunch of questions and not the answer.
Read the comment you sent me above and ask yourself, If I were to have read this after asking a question, what would be
my thoughts on this...Would I take it like a question or would I take like he or she is trying to be smart.
I am sorry but it was hurtful.
If you didn't mean it by that.. then I guess what ever... But if not, I would revise what your going to write in
your head before you type it, as it may be hurtful.
Thank you for your answer.
My husband and I are going to make a topper made of wood with a special coating on it to keep it from molding
and such and have a place for the light. So by your comment, I want to increase the bubble stone to more then
just 2 then right?

 

[fishymomma]

If you don't recommend using bubble stones, what do you suggest?
And why don't you suggest it?
I didn't even know they had a new Hobbyist area.

 

[blackjacktang]

if i said it trying to be smart then im sorry. Why i asked these questions is because i wasnt shure if you knew what your doing or not due to your low post count and when you joined.
We have had too many people on this site jump right into the hobby without researching and end up killing there fish. I was just making shure you werent one of them.

 

[slice]

There are experts here that can go into great detail, but
1) salt creep
2) microbubbles can lodge in fish's gills and create issues
3) coral don't like them
4) a host of other problems that the experts will need to address.

 

[blackjacktang]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice http:///forum/thread/383074/oxygen#post_3347592
There are experts here that can go into great detail, but
1) salt creep
2) microbubbles can lodge in fish's gills and create issues
3) coral don't like them
4) a host of other problems that the experts will need to address.
When i used an airstone it was big enough bubble that it wasnt micro bubbles.

 

[slice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjacktang http:///forum/thread/383074/oxygen#post_3347596
When i used an airstone it was big enough bubble that it wasnt micro bubbles.
Understood.
My first SW tank, some 20+ years ago, used undergravel filters and airstone lifts for circulation. Back then, that was the bomb! cutting-edge technology....

 

[meowzer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice http:///forum/thread/383074/oxygen#post_3347592
There are experts here that can go into great detail, but
1) salt creep
2) microbubbles can lodge in fish's gills and create issues
3) coral don't like them
4) a host of other problems that the experts will need to address.
+1....bubblers are not for sw tanks and will not help with your oxygen
surface agitation will which you can achieve by using powerheads pointed to the top of the water.....you will also need powerheads in your tank to circulate your water
I think by topper you are talking about a canopy....even with a canopy the water top is open some for oxygen exchange

 

[blackjacktang]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice http:///forum/thread/383074/oxygen#post_3347601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjacktang http:///forum/thread/383074/oxygen#post_3347596
When i used an airstone it was big enough bubble that it wasnt micro bubbles.
Understood.
My first SW tank, some 20+ years ago, used undergravel filters and airstone lifts for circulation. Back then, that was the bomb! cutting-edge technology....

LEDs are it now. Im waiting for solor powerd LEDs.
I currently have an airstone in my 3g pico but the bubble stay in one spot. So they dont turn into micro bubbles.

 

[fishymomma]

So you suggest power heads then, Hmmm interesting!
And I am not one of those kinds of people who just jump into it for the fun of it.
My husband and I have done a fair share of research him more then me but we
wanted to make sure and know all that we could about how to establish the tank properly,
what temp to have it at, Salinity level, How to properly take care of the fish we will be
having in our tank, what equipment we need etc. The list goes on and we have looked this
information up but even in some very informational books, they don't have the simple answers
we want. I read in one book where it says this exact thing:
"You should make sure you have enough oxygen in your tank for the amount of fish you have
in there. Having to many fish for the amount of oxygen you have in the tank will result in dead fish"
But they never went into detail of how to determine how much you need to have n' such.
This is why I ask, not because I am uneducated in this but because sometimes, books and
people lack the general/simple answers. I joined this forum because of this exact reason.
The amount of posts I have wrote or commented on shouldn't make or break a person on
how uneducated or educated they are as a hobbyist.

 

[blackjacktang]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishymomma http:///forum/thread/383074/oxygen#post_3347605
So you suggest what to make oxygen?
And I am not one of those kinds of people who just jump into it for the fun of it.
My husband and I have done a fair share of research him more then me but we
wanted to make sure and know all that we could about how to establish the tank properly,
what temp to have it at, Salinity level, How to properly take care of the fish we will be
taking care of, what equipment we need etc. The list goes on and we have looked this
information up but even in some very informational books, they don't have the simple answers
we want. I read in one book where it says this exact thing:
"You should make sure you have enough oxygen in your tank for the amount of fish you have
in there. Having to many fish for the amount of oxygen you have in the tank will result in dead fish"
But they never went into detail of how to determine how much you need to have n' such.
This is why I ask, not because I am uneducated in this but because sometimes, books and
people lack the general/simple answers. I joined this forum because of this exact reason.
The amount of posts I have wrote or commented on shouldn't make or break a person on
how uneducated or educated they are a hobbyist.
I agree it shouldnt. But that is just kind of how people work. Another reason people do this is because of questions that poeple ask are not common and/or are in the Archive and FAQ section of this forum.

 

[meowzer]

I don't know why you are getting so defensive....no one has said you were uneducated...just try to listen (or read) what we are trying to say
let me ask this
HAVE you read the top 2 threads in the new hobbyist section? They will address a lot of your concerns.
agiatation at the Top of the water will help with your oxygen exchange.....that is what I was saying

 

[fishymomma]

Well,
Where I am getting at is the fact that you guys quickly assume.
No matter if the subject is about how educated or how uneducated you are.
He asked if I have searched up information on this hobby, making me assume he
thought I knew nothing and was just coming on here for fun.
I am just explaining where I am coming from and trying to point out that it
is kind of rude to quickly assume one doesn't know as much as another
just by their status on this forum.
I could have well been a Salt Water Genius who recently got back into the
hobby and kind of forgot a few things, You can never know the status of
ones education.
I am however starting out, I do admit.
I most likely do not know everything you guys know mainly
because you all have been in this for a while, but asking
me if I have done my research only suggest that you believe
I lack and that is a cut down. That's all I am saying.

 

[blackjacktang]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishymomma http:///forum/thread/383074/oxygen#post_3347614
Well,
Where I am getting at is the fact that you guys quickly assume.
No matter if the subject is about how educated or how uneducated you are.
He asked if I have searched up information on this hobby, making me assume he
thought I knew nothing and was just coming on here for fun.
I am just explaining where I am coming from and trying to point out that it
is kind of rude to quickly assume one doesn't know as much as another
just by their status on this forum.
I could have well been a Salt Water Genius who recently got back into the
hobby and kind of forgot a few things, You can never know the status of
ones education.
I am however starting out, I do admit.
I most likely do not know everything you guys know mainly
because you all have been in this for a while, but asking
me if I have done my research only suggest that you believe
I lack and that is a cut down. That's all I am saying.
how does asking if you have done your research make you assume we think ur uneducated?

I have been in this hobby for a while and people still ask me if ive done research. Heck even meowzer has asked me! It doesent offend me, it just lets me know that i need to be doing research on a few things. It also tells me people care.

 

[meowzer]

OK...let's get off the research disagreement here
I did ask you if you read the top 2 threads in the new hibbyist section though.....that is something I ask everyone, because there is a lot of GREAT info there that may not be in a book, or an articlethat you haev already read
NOW....do you have another question?
ALSO.....it would be very helpful to us that are trying to help you, if you try to keep to one thread....it gets a little confusing when you have 5 or 6 threads going on....and you may also not get the best info because you are scattering your facts between threads

 

[gemmy]

Here are some facts on air bubblers and they do not cause gas bubble disease:
Some reasons not to have a bubbler.
They are not as efficient as powerheads, water pumps, and/or protein skimmers are at creating water movement in an aquarium. All of these are much better at helping with oxygen and other gas exchanges at the water's surface.
· They do not move water fast enough or in adequate volume for what a tank usually needs for good all round, vertical and horizontal, water circulation. This situation can also contribute to a low or insufficient GPH (gallon per hour) tank water turnover time.
· They create a lot of salt spray, that in turn contributes to salt creep problems.
· They clog up.
· They wear out quickly, and usually need replacing often.
· They can give off irregular air flow.
· Air line hoses can get pinched or kinked, which weakens or cuts off the air flow.
· Many times the air pump chosen to run air stones is inadequate, resulting in low air flow pressure.
· Some air flow pressure is lost the longer the distance the air has to travel through the clear tubing from the air pump to the air stones.
· The deeper the tank water, the farther the air has to be pushed downhill to reach the air stones, resulting in loss of air flow pressure.p>
Now to the issue of gas bubble disease:
"Gas bubble disease, like Melissa said, is not due to air bubbles in the water, but actually dissolved gases (both O2 and N2). With many fishes, signs of GBD, will show up when the total dissolved gases exceed 110-130%. With some fishes, O2 levels of over 300% did not produce GBD. Usually, on smaller systems, this is due to the entraining of air on the intake side of a pump. The easiest solution to this is finding and fixing the pump, but having a trickle filter (dembolizing tower), water "fall" into the tank or sump or strong aeration in the tank or the sump will off gas any supersaturated dissolved gases. For this reason, as a protective measure, I have overflow drains, as opposed to siphon/suction tube, and aeration (usually in the sump) on all of my systems. This will also help off gas a build up of CO2 and the associated pH drop that some tanks experience when the lights go off. Also GBD will manifest itself in more than just the eyes, and unless the supersaturation is fixed, it is usually fatal in a very short period of time."
too lazy to put in my own words. HTH!