ozone users

[cincyreefer]

I was just thinking about this and wondering if anyone has any experience with it or would know if it would be possible.
Would it be possible to put an ozone generator on a large reef tank to help control algae and to use as the filtration, or would that not be possible with inverts. Our ozone generator does a great job on our shark tank, but that is all we have in there.
I was just thinking that if ozone would oxidize anything it comes in contact with, then that would serve as a great way to control algae growth and keep good water quality. That would cut out the need for a refugium and DSB, which would make it much easier to feed corals and keep up phyto/zooplankton colonies as long as the ozone doesn't harm it. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[cincyreefer]

no one has any ideas???

 

[squidd]

I had asked about ozone/ozonizer usage awhile ago, and didn't get much response either...other than a good bit of "misinformation" and "the sky is falling" scare tactics.
I had been doing some research in some "older" reef keeping magazines and it seemed to be "the" thing to do for proper ORP and DO levels at he time.
I had asked if or why it had fallen out of favor with reef keepers or if there was some "new" technology that had replacd it, and unfortunetly was unable to find anyone with "real" experiance with it to say if they were still using it or why they had switched and what they had switched to.
I know at least two aquariests that are currently using ozonizers through their skimmers to increase efficency and some of the monitoring and equipment that goes along with it...ORP,TDS,DOC,Residual Ozone dectection,etc...One on a reef and one on a FO tank. They are sold on it but before I invest a good bit of money in a system I would like to get a bit more diverse information myself...
Good luck on your quest...

 

[cincyreefer]

Yeah, i know a system like that would be really expensive (the sharks tank ozone unit cost blew me away), but it might be the cloesest reef setup to maintanence free that i know of. I'll keep trying and see if I can come up with some more info.

 

[squidd]

I don't know about low maintainence...The only "theory" I could infer from what I've heard and read is that the ozone "supercharges" the effecency of a skimmer helping it to remove more organic (and inorganic) toxins creating "cleaner" more "liveable" water conditions at the cost of "high tech" monitoriing systems...
Perhaps todays skimmers are just that much more efficient and combined with more "natural" filtration/denitrafication techniques such as sumps,refugiums,and DSB (which has a bit of maintence in itself to work properly) the need or desire to use high tech equipment waned.

 

[bang guy]

Ozone is great for converting Urea to Ammonia and killing Plankton.
If that's your goal then definately use it.
For a true reef tank you need the plankton to feed the zooplankton that corals & filter feeders eat more than you need to remove organics from the water.

 

[cincyreefer]

I guess that answered my question in the original post.... Ozone would kill the plankton so it wouldn't be easier to feed corals. Oh well, I'll try to think of something else now...

 

[thomas712]

Originally posted by Bang Guy
Ozone is great for converting Urea to Ammonia and killing Plankton.
If that's your goal then definately use it.

Now hold on there Bang, wouldn't you think that these plankton would have a reproductive cycle which is greater then the protein skimmer/ozone kill potential? Now I would be far more affraid of a UV killing my plankton then the ozone. And yes as I understand it the ozone if used properly would create a more sterile enviroment, however if used in the skimmer and the return is filtered in the carbon I see no reason why the various planktons that live in the water colum can not continue to survive in the main tank.
We always seem to disagree on filtration Bang, perhaps if I could borrow your lagoon I might see things from a different perspective .
Oh well at least we are not talking M&M's = Mollies and Macros.
Thomas

 

[bang guy]

Thomas - As always, most of the stuff I say is opinion based on experience and not scientific fact.
I would hope we don't always agree because that would be boring and neither of us would learn as much.
What has your experience with Ozone been as far as critters that have a planktonic stage like Stomatella? My experience is that they are wiped out over the course of several months.
I don't use a UV but I don't think they do all that much damage to plankton unless you have it set up with a proper flow rate. Most hobbiests pump so much water through their tiny UV that it's almost totally ineffective (not all hobbiests obviously).
Ozone definately damages plankton. If you use carbon on the return (I think that's a MUST) then the benthic creatures are completely safe. What are not safe are the millions of larvae in the water column waiting to settle on the sustrate.
Ozone should be a fairly good cure for diatoms though. Have you had that experience?

 

[thomas712]

Originally posted by Bang Guy
What has your experience with Ozone been as far as critters that have a planktonic stage like Stomatella? My experience is that they are wiped out over the course of several months.

To early to tell about my experience with Ozone. When I was purchasing equipment for my 90 gal I did buy a aquazone ozonizer and had not used it. Without much of a cleanup crew at the moment I have had several algea problems. I have added about three scarlet hermits and a couple of snails, and last week I did plug in the ozonizer during the day time only. The hair algea seems to be abaiting, and the cyno seems to be turning dark green?, which I have never seen before. I do see small critters on the rock as of this morning which I believe to be copopods.
I have not used Ozone during a diatom phase.
There does seem to be more foam coming from my skimmer, before I dump the skimmate is there something that I could look for in the waiste from the skimmer to prove that they are being killed and collected? Yes I can imagine what is happening to any of these critters that come in contact with the O3 in the skimmer, but wipe them all out? Well I would hope not but yes you could be right.
Would it make sence for those using Ozone to use during the day and leave off at night. Would not the plankton be more active during the evening?
Thomas
I take it your not going to loan me that big ole fuge of yours

 

[bang guy]

My concern has to do with larvae, not the adult critters. If you kill off the larvae then the population will slowly decline as the adults die or are eaten. Some of the bugs (not all) in our tanks have a larval planktonic stage.
Don't you turn over the entire tank volume several times an hour through the skimmer?

 

[squidd]

Thank You Thomas 712 for joining the discussion...
I don't think Bang Guy is completely wrong in his assessment of the potential of eradication of planktonic larvae...and would be interested in your findings after running ozone for a period of time.
It seems there may be more then one method to run a successful ecosystem...(I have a "Keen" since of the obvious )and would like to explore all the available possibility's.
Two things come to mind...one is that the 'switch" from ozone use (goal of super clean water..which is beneficial to invertebrates) may have been superseded by the thought of keeping a "greener" system with the benefit of "natural planktonic feeding.
The other is that they do not necessarily need to be mutually exclusive.While not every one would want to deal with the monitoring equipment and hassles of ozone...not everyone has the room for an effectively sized refugium/lagoon either.
Per haps some combination of principals based on a reefers ability, comprehension and room may be the most practical for any given individual.
As far as the "Skimmer eating larvae" concern...wouldn't something as simple as a properly sized "prefilter" eliminate most of the passage of plankton?

 

[squidd]

^

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by Squidd
Thank You Thomas 712 for joining the discussion...
I agree!
It seems there may be more then one method to run a successful ecosystem
Amen.
As far as the "Skimmer eating larvae" concern...
I'm not convinced plankton get caught in the skimmer, I was suggesting that the Ozone in the skimmer oxidyzes their cells.
I believe a prefilter would cause even more harm than the Ozone.
All opinion of course...

 

[iceburger]

i must say that this is one of the most informative threads that i have read in awhile...thanx guys

 

[cincyreefer]

Well do you guys think that ozone can effectively reduce nitrates and phosphates as well as Ammonia? Given a very large skimmer and enough ozone, say .5 gram an hour, would that be enough to have no need for a fuge? I originally asked this because i might be setting up a 400 gallon reef tank for a lady who won't be able to do much maintanence, and i will only be able to get out there once every three or four weeks.
Thomas- How long have you been using ozone now? Please keep is updated.

 

[cincyreefer]

Also, I have read about ozone a bunch but wouldn't use it in a reef tank until i had someone give me their experience... I am a big believer that experience is more important than book knowledge.

 

[thomas712]

Here is a little more book learning for ya
Ozone is a safe and remarkably effective agent capable of killing a wide variety of microorganisms. Viruses, bacteria, spores, some chemical impurities, etc., are all attacked and destroyed by ozone. Additionally, toxic materials treated with ozone are nearly always converted into less toxic compounds, enhancing their adsorption by bacteria, algae, and/or activated carbon. As an example, in the marine aquarium, ozone will steadily convert ammonia to nitrite and rapidly (on contact) convert nitrite to nitrate.
Ozone promotes the formation of stable foaming compounds from otherwise non-foaming components, noticeably increasing the efficiency of protein skimmers in marine aquariums. When ozone is used with a protein skimmer, complex waste materials not removed as foam are further broken down to simpler component parts and passed off to the atmosphere or broken down into materials readily consumed by the bacteria and algae in the aquarium.
cincyreefer - Only been using it for about a week. Daytime use only.
Thomas

 

[squidd]

Well put Thomas...that is similar to the information that I have been collecting on the 'benefits of ozone use.
While at this point I wasn't looking to add an ozonizer to my reef tank...it's only a 20 nano...I have been wondering if it would be worthwhile to add to my aggressive tank...
Because of the type of inhabitants, keeping a fully functional and diverse DSB "ecosystem", while not impossible, would be quite difficult.
I do have a "fair" sized refugium/sump and have been able to keep nitrAtes below 10 (right now 6-8) but as the "boys" get larger I can see their filtration needs changing.
So back to your usage...Why just during the day? Still checking the effects of dosing?
Are you returning the skimmer water through carbon to remove residual O3...?
Are you testing for residual O3?
Are you using a redox monitor/controller or adjusting manually?
What is your "goal" range for ORP?
Have you been tracking dissolved oxygen levels as well as ORP?

 

[thomas712]

Originally posted by Squidd
So back to your usage...Why just during the day? Still checking the effects of dosing?
Are you returning the skimmer water through carbon to remove residual O3...?
Are you testing for residual O3?
Are you using a redox monitor/controller or adjusting manually?
What is your "goal" range for ORP?
Have you been tracking dissolved oxygen levels as well as ORP?

During the day because the dog gone thing chirps at night and with the air pump that I have on it, it makes things louder.
Yes the skimmer empties out into the carbon.
Currently adjusting manually, I have broken the ORP probe and have to order another one, felt like such a bone head when I broke it. Stepped right on the d*&m thing. Thing cost more than my shoes. ORP replacement probe is $60.00 If you know of a cheaper one then I would like to hear about it.
Not tracking dissolved oxygen at this time.
Thomas