Palin/Biden
- Thread starter sickboy
- Start date
1journeyman
Active Member
I'm surprised that the avid Obama supporters are bothered by Palin's perceived script. Let's face it; The whole "hope and change" mantra is the king of scripts this season...
rylan1
Active Member
Who ever things Palin won is crazy.
First, people are grading her based on the fact that she did not collapse or walk of stage.... so you are not grading her based on performance, but other factors that don't qualify her for the job.
Of course she was scripted... and I'd say all debaters have a outline that they would like to stick by. (the moderator actually gave her a easy time)
But anytime there was a follow up question or she didn't know the answer... regardless if it was foreign policy or healthcare... she went to "lets talk about taxes"... and even w/ taxes she did not say anything that defended McCain's record or the Bush-McCain correlation... Biden did an effective job showing McCain admin would be no different than Bush...
Some people may enjoy her personality or language... but if you are objective and rate this based on who is prepared to be VP and possibably president if necessary... the choice has got to be Biden.
Biden's problem is he was too reserved... and couldn't attack... he also may have come across boring with all the statistics..
He owned her on economy, middle class, health care, foreign policy... can anyone give me a clear instance of why they percieve her to be qualified based on her performance in the debate.
First, people are grading her based on the fact that she did not collapse or walk of stage.... so you are not grading her based on performance, but other factors that don't qualify her for the job.
Of course she was scripted... and I'd say all debaters have a outline that they would like to stick by. (the moderator actually gave her a easy time)
But anytime there was a follow up question or she didn't know the answer... regardless if it was foreign policy or healthcare... she went to "lets talk about taxes"... and even w/ taxes she did not say anything that defended McCain's record or the Bush-McCain correlation... Biden did an effective job showing McCain admin would be no different than Bush...
Some people may enjoy her personality or language... but if you are objective and rate this based on who is prepared to be VP and possibably president if necessary... the choice has got to be Biden.
Biden's problem is he was too reserved... and couldn't attack... he also may have come across boring with all the statistics..
He owned her on economy, middle class, health care, foreign policy... can anyone give me a clear instance of why they percieve her to be qualified based on her performance in the debate.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by EL GUAPO
http:///forum/post/2779414
I thought Palin won .
I thought she made a very good point about Obama/Biden just looking back and pointing fingers .
His body language was not the best either . He looked intimidated and confused .
I think bringing up the point that Biden had said Obama was not ready to lead but know he is ready to follow him into the white house .
and Biden did a better job in countering.. and laid out that there is nothing about this campaign that differs from Bush Admin...
And what was her response?
????????????????
We are still waiting.
No she didn't bomb... she paused a few times looking confused on where to go or what to say... He never looked intimidated...perhaps frustrated that he couldn't go after her like he wanted to.
http:///forum/post/2779414
I thought Palin won .
I thought she made a very good point about Obama/Biden just looking back and pointing fingers .
His body language was not the best either . He looked intimidated and confused .
I think bringing up the point that Biden had said Obama was not ready to lead but know he is ready to follow him into the white house .
and Biden did a better job in countering.. and laid out that there is nothing about this campaign that differs from Bush Admin...
And what was her response?
????????????????
We are still waiting.
No she didn't bomb... she paused a few times looking confused on where to go or what to say... He never looked intimidated...perhaps frustrated that he couldn't go after her like he wanted to.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2779686
Bottom line is that Palin did not go there to debate at all. She went with a script and all she had to do was not mess up. In the end, she will not win any new votes with her performance but her supporters will claim that she was good enough. Those supporting Obama will point out her flaws.
In the end, though, I don't think that she would have swayed any uncommitted votes her way. But her job here is just to get through these debates without harming her side.
I want real analysis, lets be honest... I can be objective... she won't lose many votes from this... but I bet that she won't gain any from those on the fence or independents.. The upside is far greater for Obama/Biden... they won't loose anything... and are likely to get a small bump based on having someone knowledgable and experienced to back Obama up... Biden said he would be part of every major decision as a voice of advise.
http:///forum/post/2779686
Bottom line is that Palin did not go there to debate at all. She went with a script and all she had to do was not mess up. In the end, she will not win any new votes with her performance but her supporters will claim that she was good enough. Those supporting Obama will point out her flaws.
In the end, though, I don't think that she would have swayed any uncommitted votes her way. But her job here is just to get through these debates without harming her side.
I want real analysis, lets be honest... I can be objective... she won't lose many votes from this... but I bet that she won't gain any from those on the fence or independents.. The upside is far greater for Obama/Biden... they won't loose anything... and are likely to get a small bump based on having someone knowledgable and experienced to back Obama up... Biden said he would be part of every major decision as a voice of advise.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by PerfectDark
http:///forum/post/2779645
I give credit to both sides I think they both did well. Palin was bit too scripted than I would of like to of seen, but did better than I think a lot of people thought she would. I thought Biden did a good job even though I dont agree with his views, I think he did well. I thought one of the better parts of the debate were on the issues they both agreed on. To me it appeared that they were both very surprised that they agreed on g ay marriage question.
Only issue is that her position may not be in line w/ McCain or party's.
http:///forum/post/2779645
I give credit to both sides I think they both did well. Palin was bit too scripted than I would of like to of seen, but did better than I think a lot of people thought she would. I thought Biden did a good job even though I dont agree with his views, I think he did well. I thought one of the better parts of the debate were on the issues they both agreed on. To me it appeared that they were both very surprised that they agreed on g ay marriage question.
Only issue is that her position may not be in line w/ McCain or party's.
crimzy
Active Member
Of course all of the candidates have scripted "outlines" that they follow. But Palin went far beyond that. She completely ignored the actual debate.
I don't remember the exact question but she was asked something about (I believe) foreign policy. Her response was great... she says, "Let's talk about energy... "
No intelligent person, outside of people who already support McCain/Palin, can honestly feel that she won the debate. Although I do agree with one thing that she says... she relates to the average American. She is honestly about as average as they come.
I don't remember the exact question but she was asked something about (I believe) foreign policy. Her response was great... she says, "Let's talk about energy... "
No intelligent person, outside of people who already support McCain/Palin, can honestly feel that she won the debate. Although I do agree with one thing that she says... she relates to the average American. She is honestly about as average as they come.
gonefishcrazy
Member
Palin did a good job at dodging questions. Biden won the debate clearly.
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2779752
Of course all of the candidates have scripted "outlines" that they follow. But Palin went far beyond that. She completely ignored the actual debate.
I don't remember the exact question but she was asked something about (I believe) foreign policy. Her response was great... she says, "Let's talk about energy... "
No intelligent person, outside of people who already support McCain/Palin, can honestly feel that she won the debate. Although I do agree with one thing that she says... she relates to the average American. She is honestly about as average as they come.
BIDEN: (talking about bankruptcy) ... John McCain said as early as last December, quote -- I'm paraphrasing -- "I'm surprised about this subprime
[hr]
crisis," number one.
Number two, with regard to bankruptcy now, Gwen, what we should be doing now -- and Barack Obama and I support it -- we should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to re-adjust not just the interest rate you're paying on your
[hr]
to be able to stay in your home, but be able to adjust the principal that you owe, the principal that you owe.
That would keep people in their homes, actually help banks by keeping it from going under. But John McCain, as I understand it -- I'm not sure of this, but I believe John McCain and the governor don't support that.
There are ways to help people now. And there -- ways that we're offering are not being supported by -- by the Bush administration nor do I believe by John McCain and Gov. Palin.
IFILL: Gov. Palin, is that so?
PALIN: That is not so, but because that's just a quick answer, I want to talk about, again, my record on energy versus your ticket's energy ticket, also.
I think that this is important to come back to, with that energy policy plan again that was voted for in '05.
When we talk about energy, we have to consider the need to do all that we can to allow this nation to become energy independent.
http:///forum/post/2779752
Of course all of the candidates have scripted "outlines" that they follow. But Palin went far beyond that. She completely ignored the actual debate.
I don't remember the exact question but she was asked something about (I believe) foreign policy. Her response was great... she says, "Let's talk about energy... "
No intelligent person, outside of people who already support McCain/Palin, can honestly feel that she won the debate. Although I do agree with one thing that she says... she relates to the average American. She is honestly about as average as they come.
BIDEN: (talking about bankruptcy) ... John McCain said as early as last December, quote -- I'm paraphrasing -- "I'm surprised about this subprime
[hr]
crisis," number one.
Number two, with regard to bankruptcy now, Gwen, what we should be doing now -- and Barack Obama and I support it -- we should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to re-adjust not just the interest rate you're paying on your
[hr]
to be able to stay in your home, but be able to adjust the principal that you owe, the principal that you owe.
That would keep people in their homes, actually help banks by keeping it from going under. But John McCain, as I understand it -- I'm not sure of this, but I believe John McCain and the governor don't support that.
There are ways to help people now. And there -- ways that we're offering are not being supported by -- by the Bush administration nor do I believe by John McCain and Gov. Palin.
IFILL: Gov. Palin, is that so?
PALIN: That is not so, but because that's just a quick answer, I want to talk about, again, my record on energy versus your ticket's energy ticket, also.
I think that this is important to come back to, with that energy policy plan again that was voted for in '05.
When we talk about energy, we have to consider the need to do all that we can to allow this nation to become energy independent.
iowafish
Member
Yeah, but at least it's more convincingly his script.
Look... Palin went out there last night and didn't make a fool of herself, as many people thought she would. As others have said, she spoke well (if you can get past the Mayberry-isms) and had a good, confident stage presence. I don't think she scored any major points but at the same time she probably didn't lose the ticket any votes either.
Bottom line: after the Couric interview embarrassments, Ms. Sarah sharpened her memorization skills and nothing more. I don't see how that makes her the winner of last night's debate when several of her recited answers didn't even answer the question that was asked.
Biden answered some things in a round about way, sure, but Palin outright dodged at least a handful of questions.
And people wonder why she doesn't do interviews. Hmmm.... probably because she's very inexperienced at National politics and completely out of her league. Just my $.02.
KH
P.S. Parting thought... what kind of parent parades his/her very young (<6 months), special needs infant son to both the debate AND the post debate rally?! Seriously... that didn't score points with any responsible parents.
Look... Palin went out there last night and didn't make a fool of herself, as many people thought she would. As others have said, she spoke well (if you can get past the Mayberry-isms) and had a good, confident stage presence. I don't think she scored any major points but at the same time she probably didn't lose the ticket any votes either.
Bottom line: after the Couric interview embarrassments, Ms. Sarah sharpened her memorization skills and nothing more. I don't see how that makes her the winner of last night's debate when several of her recited answers didn't even answer the question that was asked.
Biden answered some things in a round about way, sure, but Palin outright dodged at least a handful of questions.
And people wonder why she doesn't do interviews. Hmmm.... probably because she's very inexperienced at National politics and completely out of her league. Just my $.02.
KH
P.S. Parting thought... what kind of parent parades his/her very young (<6 months), special needs infant son to both the debate AND the post debate rally?! Seriously... that didn't score points with any responsible parents.
gonefishcrazy
Member
Your right Rylan. They are saying she won because she did not draw a complete blank or just walk off the stage, as if that makes someone presidential. She got off way easy. The moderator was under pressure from the right so she did not make Palin answer her questions. Biden was under pressure, he could'nt attack like he wanted to because she is a woman. She said nothing with substance. I like the part when Biden named off the reasons why John is not a maverick. I like the part when John let her know even though he's a man he know something about raising kids also. I like the part when Biden said he did not hear anything about how McCain policies are different from Bush policies. We all know if she was asked follow up questions to her answers, last night would have looked like Katie's interview.
iowafish
Member
Originally Posted by gonefishcrazy
http:///forum/post/2779772
We all know if she was asked follow up questions to her answers, last night would have looked like Katie's interview.
Amen to that, brother!
KH
http:///forum/post/2779772
We all know if she was asked follow up questions to her answers, last night would have looked like Katie's interview.
Amen to that, brother!
KH
hlcroghan
Active Member
I am glad to see people being relatively objective on this thread. I don't think that either of them won by any great margin. Biden was slightly better simply because he was better educated and has more experience in this arena. I think that Palin has the potential in the future to become good at politics in this arena but definitely not yet. I think that this is probably the most boring debate we have seen in a while and that it will be forgotten pretty quickly.
iowafish
Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2779774
I think that this is probably the most boring debate we have seen in a while....
I agree. I think it would have been a whole lot more fun and exciting if the moderator pressed for direct answers to questions, and if Biden wasn't so afraid of the feminists for laying into Palin like you could tell he wanted to.
Oh well, McCain and Obama are back at it on Tuesday. Hopefully this thing will heat up at some point....
KH
http:///forum/post/2779774
I think that this is probably the most boring debate we have seen in a while....
I agree. I think it would have been a whole lot more fun and exciting if the moderator pressed for direct answers to questions, and if Biden wasn't so afraid of the feminists for laying into Palin like you could tell he wanted to.
Oh well, McCain and Obama are back at it on Tuesday. Hopefully this thing will heat up at some point....
KH
stdreb27
Active Member
yawn, yeah, what "they" say.
The simple fact is this, if you are part of a party whose base says less government, and you're going to argue for more government against someone who thinks socialism is fair. Of course it isn't going to look good for you.
Second it would matter if George Washington was running as a republican, "they" would have said that biden had won.
This is precisely why you don't "reach across the isle" because no matter how much you compromise. Or how much you echo left wing ideologies. They will be demanding more.
But out of her league, come on, Biden at best is an moron. She went out there, and defended McCain's lousy positions very well, considering they are lousy. And you aren't going to out liberal a liberal. And knocked out his good positions out of the park. She played the McCain plan very well. It just wasn't a good plan.
The simple fact is this, if you are part of a party whose base says less government, and you're going to argue for more government against someone who thinks socialism is fair. Of course it isn't going to look good for you.
Second it would matter if George Washington was running as a republican, "they" would have said that biden had won.
This is precisely why you don't "reach across the isle" because no matter how much you compromise. Or how much you echo left wing ideologies. They will be demanding more.
But out of her league, come on, Biden at best is an moron. She went out there, and defended McCain's lousy positions very well, considering they are lousy. And you aren't going to out liberal a liberal. And knocked out his good positions out of the park. She played the McCain plan very well. It just wasn't a good plan.
bionicarm
Active Member
There were two ways the Democrats could approach this debate:
1) Have Biden attack McCain's views and policies so as to weaken his defense and stance when McCain and Obama debate again.
2) Directly attack Palin to show her evident weaknesses in both national and foreign politics, making McCain's VP pick a bad decision, and damaging the credibility of the Republican ticket.
They decided to go with number one. Ultimately we're voting on who to elect for President, not the VP. So it was probably a better move to go with the strategy they did. However, if he had torn Palin apart, which I think there's no doubt he could, it may have been the final blow to the Republicans. I think the majority of the American people wouldn't support or elect McCain knowing there would be an inept and unprepared individual in the second chair waiting to take over if something happened to him. My personal opinion of Palin is just that. She may be able to speak to and at the commom American, telling them what they want to hear, but I honestly don't think she's capable of handling the pressures of the world politics that go along with the position of the POTUS.
1) Have Biden attack McCain's views and policies so as to weaken his defense and stance when McCain and Obama debate again.
2) Directly attack Palin to show her evident weaknesses in both national and foreign politics, making McCain's VP pick a bad decision, and damaging the credibility of the Republican ticket.
They decided to go with number one. Ultimately we're voting on who to elect for President, not the VP. So it was probably a better move to go with the strategy they did. However, if he had torn Palin apart, which I think there's no doubt he could, it may have been the final blow to the Republicans. I think the majority of the American people wouldn't support or elect McCain knowing there would be an inept and unprepared individual in the second chair waiting to take over if something happened to him. My personal opinion of Palin is just that. She may be able to speak to and at the commom American, telling them what they want to hear, but I honestly don't think she's capable of handling the pressures of the world politics that go along with the position of the POTUS.
1knight164
Member
Gotta love the way Palin used Biden's own words to attack Obama.
Biden was speechless.
It's obvious, even before going into the debate, that Biden was going to know more than Palin so no surprise there. I think they both did what they needed to do, Palin, not to fall on her face, and Biden, not to say something stupid. I credit Biden with resisting all temptation to take the bait and attack Palin. Must've been real tough. And to Palin's credit, she showed that she's not the SNL Palin. She can hold her own.
Now to FactCheck.org and PolitiFact.com...
It's obvious, even before going into the debate, that Biden was going to know more than Palin so no surprise there. I think they both did what they needed to do, Palin, not to fall on her face, and Biden, not to say something stupid. I credit Biden with resisting all temptation to take the bait and attack Palin. Must've been real tough. And to Palin's credit, she showed that she's not the SNL Palin. She can hold her own.
Now to FactCheck.org and PolitiFact.com...
rylan1
Active Member
Originally Posted by IOWAFISH
http:///forum/post/2779776
I agree. I think it would have been a whole lot more fun and exciting if the moderator pressed for direct answers to questions, and if Biden wasn't so afraid of the feminists for laying into Palin like you could tell he wanted to.
Oh well, McCain and Obama are back at it on Tuesday. Hopefully this thing will heat up at some point....
KH
I agree... but saw Gulianni saying this is the best debate he has ever seen... How can anyone take him serious with statments like that.
Everyone except Palin had to hold back do to the possiblity of criticism by media and McCain campaign.. If this was done correctly with no holding back... it would have been great
Biden's comments on fatherhood were great... and sincere..
http:///forum/post/2779776
I agree. I think it would have been a whole lot more fun and exciting if the moderator pressed for direct answers to questions, and if Biden wasn't so afraid of the feminists for laying into Palin like you could tell he wanted to.
Oh well, McCain and Obama are back at it on Tuesday. Hopefully this thing will heat up at some point....
KH
I agree... but saw Gulianni saying this is the best debate he has ever seen... How can anyone take him serious with statments like that.
Everyone except Palin had to hold back do to the possiblity of criticism by media and McCain campaign.. If this was done correctly with no holding back... it would have been great
Biden's comments on fatherhood were great... and sincere..
sickboy
Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2779398
I could live with that.
Really? You do know why Cheney came up with that bogus definition right??
http:///forum/post/2779398
I could live with that.
Really? You do know why Cheney came up with that bogus definition right??
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2779805
Really? You do know why Cheney came up with that bogus definition right??
Yes.
Bogus?
The Dems in control of Kalifornia and their uber-liberal judges rewrite law daily, even disregarding the vote of the people of this state. Too many dope smoking voters out here. Their brains are on chemical overload.
Cheney had to make some decisions during his term that no other VP in history has had to make. The buck no longer stops at the Ollie North level. Any VP in his position would be doing the same thing.
Cheney's ability to pick up the ball and run with it is what makes him such a powerful person and probably the #1 reason I voted for Bush/Cheney twice.
http:///forum/post/2779805
Really? You do know why Cheney came up with that bogus definition right??
Yes.
Bogus?
The Dems in control of Kalifornia and their uber-liberal judges rewrite law daily, even disregarding the vote of the people of this state. Too many dope smoking voters out here. Their brains are on chemical overload.
Cheney had to make some decisions during his term that no other VP in history has had to make. The buck no longer stops at the Ollie North level. Any VP in his position would be doing the same thing.
Cheney's ability to pick up the ball and run with it is what makes him such a powerful person and probably the #1 reason I voted for Bush/Cheney twice.