Perplexing Mystery?

[glibgoat]

OK, I got you in here, please help.
I will spare you all of the details, here is the basics.
1- Moved at the end of December 2006.
2- Decided to convert from aggressive to reef tank in new house.
(65 gallon, skimmer, fluval 304, 2 powerheads, halide lights)
3- Approx May, began keeping frogspawn and zoas.
4- July- Tank crashes, I have no explaination. Only neon Dottyback and clown survive.
5- August- Install refuge, in hopes of helping with filtration.
6- Cannot keep marco alive (keeps turning brown and "gummy")
7- hair algae breaks out.
8- Reattach fluval.
9- Normally do 10% water changes bimonthly. Last week decided to do a 25% in hopes of getting tank "normal."
Today's numbers
Ph8.4
Nitrate 10ppm
4.5 meq /l of alk
Status of tank- Can't keep anything other than clown and dottyback alive. Algae wilts, hermits and emeralds even die. Hermits were acclimated by drip for 60 minutes last week and shells dot my sandbed.
I'm sure I'm doing multiple things wrong but I need help. Any advice on how to get the system rid of the hair algae and possibly toward keeping a coral again someday?

 

[ophiura]

Need to know all details of your set up - filtration, circulation, lighting, (edit - oops I see you mention them but perhaps more details) all parameters (including calcium, specific gravity...), temperature, testing kits and age, refractometer vs hydrometer, source water for water change...anything going on around tank (painting, cleaning)
Just to start

 

[glibgoat]

Let me try to answer all of those...
Temp 78
Hydrometer 1.022
new testing kit for my bday yesterday (Instant ocean)
Water changes with boxed saltwater (Aquatic gardens- real ocean water)
Tank is in a basement, does that matter?
Filtration currently a fluval 304 and 10 gallon refuge
Halide/PC lighting fixture 250 running 2 hours a day because of the hair algae.

 

[ophiura]

To start, your specific gravity is fatally low for most invertebrates, IMO. It is very low. How old is your hydrometer and when did you last soak with vinegar to remove buildup?
Have you had your readings confirmed? Get a phosphate reading as well.
Is your temperature constant even with the halides? IMO, a 250W halide is a biiiggg light on that size tank.
Have fish died? Or only inverts and macro? What is the lighting on the fuge.
What size powerheads and where located?

 

[glibgoat]

Thanks for taking the time to work with me...
The hydrometer is quite old and hasn't been soaked since we got to this house (11 months), so that might be a place to start.
I tried to get a phosphate read but the new kit calls for DI water for the phosphate test and I don't have any right now. I got the low number of .02 but the high number required the DI.
When the lights aren't on, my heater kicks on. So I think the temp stays consistant.
A few chromis have died over the last three months and a foxface. The foxface was sucked into a powerhead so that doesn't count.
Powerheads are aquaclear 50s and they are on opposite sides of my rockwork shooting toward the middle.

 

[glibgoat]

?

 

[frankthetank]

Well...
You speak of water changes with real ocean water. But was used to start the tank originally?
Secondly, a hydrometer is inaccurate. But, if you're like me that's all you have. So what I have done is test my water with a refractometer from the lfs to determine what my actual salinity is. Then I check my hydrometer to see what the reading is. For instance an actualy 1.025 reads 1.027 on my hydrometer. So now I know to mix my salt to 1.027 on my hydrometer. I re check this calibration every couple months.
While your hydrometer reads 1.022 you might actually be at 1.020 or lower! Who knows?
Also, a consistent temp reading would be nice through out the day. This would insure that the tank isn't fluctuating daily.
There are a lot of things that could be causing problems here.
And if you have used tap water ever in this tank... oh no! You could be in trouble.
Anything else you can add?

 

[ophiura]

One of the important distinctions here is whether fish and inverts die, or whether only one or the other dies. Because what kills fish often does not kill inverts, and vice versa.

 

[frankthetank]

Originally Posted by ophiura
One of the important distinctions here is whether fish and inverts die, or whether only one or the other dies. Because what kills fish often does not kill inverts, and vice versa.
He's already answered this...

 

[ophiura]

I realize that some of this has been provided, but it is important for people to know that what kills one may not kill the other. That might make something that seems inconsequential at first sight much more significant after.
I am still personally very concerned about the specific gravity.

 

[glibgoat]

Tap was used to start the tank back almost two years ago before the move prior to me knowing the that was a bad thing.
I'll have to take a sample to my LFS to get a refract reading. And I'll do a 24 hour temp reading and post as soon as I get it. I won't have a day off until next weekend so It will likely be then for both.
Inversts and macro die consistantly. 2 or 3 chromis have died during this time but the clown and dottyback seem fine and have been for a while.
So it seems that my next two steps should be
1- LFS reads for specific gravity.
2- Temp recordings for 24 hours.
Anything else I should be doing right now?
Do you think a complete water change using boxed water would end this madness?

 

[ophiura]

I would definitely have the LFS do a full run of all the water quality parameters they can test, including copper, phosphate, etc...
I would run carbon, replacing it every 2 weeks or so. I would consider a polyfilter, or one of the Kent organic resins.
Are you set on the boxed water idea? Do you dose anything? Iodine, strontium...anything? If so, apart from alk and calcium additives, stop immediately.

 

[glibgoat]

I'll be heading over to the LFS to have them run stats on my water.
I do have a carbon "bag" sitting in my refuge, I replace it usually once a month, I can up that to twice a month.
I actually don't add anything to the tank right now. I stopped all addatives.
I use boxed water for it's convenience. The closest place to get RO water is about 40 minutes from ym house. Do you feel the box is the cause of my problem?

 

[ophiura]

I don't know. Boxed NSW is relatively new on the market, and I am not as familiar with how it is "made"

if you will and boxed. Does it have a "use by" date or something?
How long did you have this tank before moving, and did you have any issues? Where you using the same water before?

 

[mscarpena]

Instead of getting the boxed sea water that is really expensive you should invest in an RO unit. Also all the sea water that I have seen is 4.4 gallons and specific gravity is at 1.027 or 1.08 then you dilute with RO to 5 gallons and your at 1.025. So the boxed water maybe an issue.

 

[iluvswfish]

10% bimonthly water hcnage is probably not enough if you are heavy feeding or have a heavy bioload.

 

[glibgoat]

I had this tank fow about 2 years before the move. I was keeping a FOWLR then. I had a hawk, small trigger and some damsels at that time.
I didn't have any issues other than terratory issues.
I checked the box I currently have, it says " best if used before 12/08." I double checked the instructions and it doesn't indicate the need for diluting it.
I would love to get an RO unit, my wife on the other hand wouldn't.
I don't have a heavy bioload now. I have a dottyback and one perc clown in a 65. I'm not a heavy feeder, one pinch that they can eat in about 45 seconds.
i really do appreiate the help with this mess.

 

[glibgoat]

Finally got to the LFS today. My pH was 8.8 and my salinity was unreadable because it was so high. This all comes from boxed water. Note to all of you out there...DON'T USE BOXED WATER.
So I did a 30 g water change with straight R/O water. Ph is back to normal but my salinity still reads off the charts with my new swingarm. Should I let this be for a couple of days or do another R/O swap from my hyper salty water? If I should swap, how much more should I do?

 

[ophiura]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well definitely that could be part of the problem...but boy, is it weird or what!
When you test it out of the box, what does it read? You were doing top offs with fresh water, correct?

 

[petjunkie]

Get a refractometer, even new hydometers can be off, my pet store uses one that right out of the packaging is three points high. The chromis could have been picking each other off, is your dottyback aggressive to new fish? The salinity explains your invert deaths but fish deaths because of it should have happened quickly too, not after a while.