Persistently cloudy water, please help!

aklaunay

aklaunay

New Member
I am so frustrated right now I want to take a hammer to my tank. I had a great little setup for 5 years with FOWLR (29 gallons), and decided when I moved I would set it up again. That was two years ago, and I've been waiting for this stupid cloudiness to go away ever since.
Looking back, the main thing I did differently after the move was change from live sand to fine play sand carried by the pet store. I also went from using RO to conditioned tap water because it was easier to get the temperature right when doing water changes, no waiting and no heater trying to melt through the side of the plastic container. I also changed my salt mix from Instant Ocean to Oceanic brand. In the two years that followed, I kept a clean-up crew of snails, shrimp and hermit crabs to control the algae, but never was confident enough with the water quality to add fish. I would do water changes, filter changes and clean the protein skimmer collection cup, and occasionally the water would clear up for a few days, but without fail, a few days later it would get cloudy again. Finally about a month ago my poor husband and I decided we had had enough of this nasty tank and we agreed to throw in the towel, but then I reconsidered and he agreed to let me give it one last shot to see if I could get it going again.
So, I gathered up as many of the clean-up crew as I could catch and donated them to LFS for adoption, drained the tank, tossed the play sand, added 30# of new live sand, brushed off the live rock to get rid of the hair and bubble algae that had started to grow, and filled it back up with RO mixed with Instant Ocean. Heated it back up, took a sample to LFS who assured me that because of the live rock, the tank would not have a cycle with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate spikes as with a brand new tank, and I picked up some new critters. Now it is two weeks later and guess what? Cloudy. Water.
LFS says that it's possible that the play sand had a fine residue that stuck to the live rocks when I moved them. I tried Kent Pro-Clear three times, but I'm very nervous about adding chemicals that remove oxygen, for the sake of my little cleaners. I've been doing water changes and rinsing the filter media daily for a week. I don't know what else to do, I'm close to calling it quits, but it breaks my heart. If anyone has any ideas what might be the cause of the cloudy water or other suggestions as to how to address it, would you please let me know? Thanks.
 
jemshores

jemshores

Member
Could you tell us what type of filtration media you are using? Do you test yourself or does the LFS provide that for you? And possibly your salinity reading....IO is great salt, not sure since you rinsed the LR if that muc residue to still exist-but maybe. Your CUC is okay if I read this right...so lets look at flow and filtration issues.
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
what color is the cloudy? white or green?
if there was hair algea the water was probably green.add a carbon reactor also a uv sterilizer will get you crystal clear water.
also when you brushed the lr was it in saltwater?if not you killed the good bacteria and you will get a cycle.plus with all new water it will get a cycle just by having the live rock out in the air with stuff dying on it.
 
aklaunay

aklaunay

New Member
Thank you for the replies, dear helpful people!!
Jemshores, the filtration media is the basic cartridge style filter stuff that comes in the box with the activated charcoal. I don't know exactly what the material is, the box says "dense, dual-sided mesh." I am going to LFS for testing for now, but if I can ever get my tank into useable condition I will certainly shuck out the bucks for my own test kit. Interesting you should ask about salinity, my nine-year-old hydrometer seems to have collected enough residue to make it really off, so I was running 1.030 when I thought I was 1.022. Would that have anything to do with cloudiness?
Deejeff, the cloudy is white, like someone poured skim milk into the tank. When the pumps are off it stays cloudy and doesn't settle, but when they are, it looks like waves or clouds of white being pushed around. I have to admit, I let it get a little out of control for a few months before the 100% water change and had some pretty heavy algae growth, but always this white cloudiness. While I was changing the water, I kept the LR submerged in a bucket of the old tank water to reduce die-off and hopefully eliminate or minimize the cycling. Total time out of water including scrubbing was probably less than 30 seconds for each rock. Even with the heaviest cloudiness, the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are zero, so I'm thinking it worked?
Florida Joe, are poly filter pads a denser type of media? My instincts say that my media is too "loose mesh," for lack of a better word, since I can see light through the holes in it, and I think a more dense type of filtration (like dense foam) might help to block the super-fine particles. When I rinse the cartridge media, it almost looks like cream-colored paint that comes off. I will take a look at poly filter pads and see if they might do the trick.
Thanks everyone for the ideas!!
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
is all the sand live sand?i dont bother with the ls it will just add to the new tank cycle .i just get the sugar sized argonite.if you dont prerinse the sand it will give you hell on cloudy water anytime you disturb it.maybe the ls you have is too fine and has alot of powder in it.you could have prewashed the ls in saltwater to eliminate the powder in the sand before it was put in the dt.is there a white film on the glass?
 
jemshores

jemshores

Member
Do a 50% WC, refractometer would help, and some chemi-pure and polishing pads. Change/rinse those out every day and hope ou can get the cloudiness-possibly from the sand-out. 1.030 is a bit high but shouldn't cause the haze. The WC's will bring it down. Idk Godd Luck....get the flow going to. maybe a power head.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Is the filter a hang on the back type? Can you replace the filter cartridge with Polyester Fiber Fil (available at the craft or fabric store, pillow stuffing, get without any additives, very inexpensive and will last a long time.) If you can do that change the floss daily. Also run some carbon in a bag in the filter or a bag of chemipure.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
From the web
Pros
* Remove all traces of copper treatment.
* Removes lead.
* Removes phosphates
* Removes silicates
* Can be easily rejunivated.
Cons
* Can leach ammonium into tank water.
Description
* With Poly-Filters, all water impurities like phosphates, nitrates, copper, silicates, and even ammonia are absorbed,
* Pads can be regenerated by rinsing in saltwater (saltwater use can be regenerated by the reverse, rinsing in freshwater).
* Cut 'em, slice them or roll 'em up in a canister filter.
* Large square pads for enhanced chemical scavenging and can be placed under the drip lid of most wet/dry trickle filters.
Guide Review - Poly-Filter Pad Material
A very technical and thorough product! What's in it for us hobbyists? Plenty! Poly-Filter Pad material, when used accordingly, remove ALL traces of copper treatment. Continued use of kalkwassers leave lead behind. Poly-Filter Pad material get-the-lead-out! Phosphates? Not a problem. The use of Poly-Filter Pad material in high-flow areas work like carbon, only better. All heavy metals are attracted to the woven matrix of polymer threads and are held there... no leaching back into the solution!
I have personally seen it clear up organic blooms in the water
 
aklaunay

aklaunay

New Member
Thank you for all the great suggestions! I couldn't find poly filter pads at LFS but I picked up some polishing pads and cut to fit my filter, haven't seen any improvement after one day but I'll leave it in for a few more days and see.
Yes, the filter is HOB type with the Bio-Bag cartridges.
I did not rinse the live sand in saltwater beforehand, was this my huge mistake?
Would leaving the lights off for a week really help?
Thanks everyone for your help! I'm really glad I found this board.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by mastertech
http:///forum/post/3184615
man you pass out money like it grows on trees. i guess you got an abundance
kick some more my way.
J/J with ya.

glad to see another well versed old school poster participating.

thanks.
And you're correct it is old school.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
I have a few questions:
I also went from using RO to conditioned tap water because it was easier to get the temperature right when doing water changes, no waiting and no heater trying to melt through the side of the plastic container.
1 - Are you mixing your salt with warm water?
2 - After you mix up your saltwater is there white residue on the bottom of the mixing container that doesn't dissolve?
3 - If you don't use a heater in the container how do you warm up the saltwater when it's time to do the water change?
4 - Are you adding carbonate to your tap water before you mix it with your salt?
5 - What is the carbonate level (or Alkalinity) of the new saltwater you're adding to you tank?
6 - What is the Phosphate level of your tap water?
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by aklaunay
http:///forum/post/3184597
I did not rinse the live sand in saltwater beforehand, was this my huge mistake?
Nope, not a mistake. Rinsing it would be a mistake in my opinion.
Would leaving the lights off for a week really help?
It depends on why it's cloudy. If it's diatoms or cyanobacter then yes it would help. If it's bacteria or Calcium carbonate precipitate then no, it wouldn't.
 
aklaunay

aklaunay

New Member
Thank you for your reply, Bang Guy.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3184666
1 - Are you mixing your salt with warm water?
No, room temperature, about 70 degrees.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3184666
2 - After you mix up your saltwater is there white residue on the bottom of the mixing container that doesn't dissolve?
No, it's clear.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3184666
3 - If you don't use a heater in the container how do you warm up the saltwater when it's time to do the water change?
Well, when I was using tap, I'd use a thermometer to make sure the temperature was right, then add AmQuel and then add salt. Am I the only one in the world that's afraid to hang a heater on a plastic bucket? Anyway, now that I'm using RO, I'm mixing up room temp and adding a gallon at a time and letting the tank heater warm it up to tank temp.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3184666
4 - Are you adding carbonate to your tap water before you mix it with your salt?
No.
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3184666
5 - What is the carbonate level (or Alkalinity) of the new saltwater you're adding to you tank?
Hmm. LFS gave me sheet with all my numbers but I think I need a class to read it. Says KH is 9.5 with normal levels being from 9 to 14. Does that answer your question?
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3184666
6 - What is the Phosphate level of your tap water?
Not sure since I'm using RO now...would that be PO? LFS measured that at 0.01....
I need to take a water chemistry refresher course!
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
From your annswers, I believe you have a bacterial bloom. This is really good news believe it or not. Once the food source has been depleted the bacteria population will quickly die off and your water should be left crystal clear.
This could have happened from a small amount of die-off in the live sand you recently added. If you're running a good skimmer then the dead bacteria will be skimmed out. If not, after your water is clear again, stir everything up and do as large a water change as you can handle (or go get a good skimmer).
If you don't find a way to remove the dead bacteria then you have a good chance of acquiring an algae bloom as some of the above posters have mentioned. An algae bloom is much more difficult to get rid of because most of the energy the algae needs comes from your lights. The water will be a distinct green during an algae bloom.
To check the color of your water don't rely on just looking into the front of the tank. Tape a piece of white paper at one end of the tank and view it from the opposite end through the length of the tank to get a better indication of the water color.
 
mermaidgrrl13

mermaidgrrl13

Member
I also struggled with horrible cloudy water after a moving a tank that had been established for 5 plus years. I followed these gentlemans advise on a thread that someone else had posted and let me tell you it worked miracles. Chemi pure is a miracle product IMO/IME and I will always run it in my filter..its a little more expensive, BUT if you consider that you can run it for 2-4 months as opposed to 2-4 weeks compared to the cartriges in the long run you actually save quite a bit of money. That product alone made my water crystal clear. I added the floss used by crafters, I believe a whole roll cost me 6.50. I changed It out daily and say a difference within the first few days. You have come to the right place these guys know thier stuff, hang in their and lean on their experiance and wisdom, they just might save your love for the hobby. OH and go buy some Chemi pure...if you cant find it locally order some online...I PROMISE you wont be disapointed. I love that stuff so much I swear Id eat it if i could.
 
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