PH Drop...can someone help? Bang?

[sal713]

Am..0
No2..0
No3..0
Po4..0
Ca..500
Ph..7.7
KH..8dH
I can not seem to get and keep my Ph between the normal range. (8-8.3?)
Numerous water changes didnt help. I do 5 gal a week (tank is 40).
Tried using Superbuffer but that seems like a temporary fix. I really dont want to start adding a bunch of chemicals but I guess if I have to......

 

[speg]

It may have something to do with your high calcium.

 

[the reef]

Originally Posted by sal713
Am..0
No2..0
No3..0
Po4..0
Ca..500
Ph..7.7
KH..8dH
I can not seem to get and keep my Ph between the normal range. (8-8.3?)
Numerous water changes didnt help. I do 5 gal a week (tank is 40).
Tried using Superbuffer but that seems like a temporary fix. I really dont want to start adding a bunch of chemicals but I guess if I have to......
first define your problem take out 5 gallons of watter and airate it with a air pump if it goes up to the desired ph then you have a build up co2 next im not shure about your alkalinity is that dkh or is that kh as in 80 ppm ? should maintain between 8-11 dkh if that is not the case either then you have a acid situation in the tank that needs to be nutralized and your getting a skewed ratio of carbonates and bicarbonates in your tank but still get a normal dkh as in low carbonates and high bicarbonates ratio the ratio needs to be 19 percent carbonates and 80 percent bicarbonates and the other 1 percent is I mixture of things one of them is borate.
In your case your ratio is more like below 10 percent carbonates
You can do what I did to fix the problem but how long it will take totaly depends on the amout of acid build up in your tank. you can use arm and hammer super washing soda this is 100 percent carbonates or if you like you can find a product that is 100 percent carbonates
only add a small amout because you do not want to raise the ph to fast only add a 1/4 teaspoon and will need to be added to a cup of watter and mixed really good before adding. It may take some time before the ph stabalizes over a 24 hour period if their are high acids in the tank then by adding the carbonates that you introduce will be nutralized hense no change in ph but the good news is that not only the carbonates are being nutralized but the acids are becoming nutralized as well. so just keep on dosing 1/4 of a teaspoon per day untel you get your ph to clime to 8.2
after you have a normal ph level add the full buffer as in the carbonates and bicarbonates when your dkh falls
as stated above the high calcium is a factor and I belive with that high calcium that your alkalinity that you posted is probly 80 ppm kh if that is the case then raise it to between 150-200 ppm

 

[reefnut]

FIRST, what is the PH in the am and pm??

 

[sal713]

ph morning is about 7.7
ph at night maybe 8
8 dkh
I just cant seem to get the ph over the 8 mark
The superbuffer brought up the alk to 11 and the ph to 8 but thats about it....
Do I have to take out 5 gal? I cant just take out a quart or something?

 

[the reef]

Originally Posted by sal713
ph morning is about 7.7
ph at night maybe 8
8 dkh
I just cant seem to get the ph over the 8 mark
The superbuffer brought up the alk to 11 and the ph to 8 but thats about it....
Do I have to take out 5 gal? I cant just take out a quart or something?
could take out 2 gallons if that is better for you
with a wide swing with your ph going from 7.7 to 8.0 that is a big difrence so I would most likly say that the biggest part of your problem is the build up of co2 the reason why it is 8 at the end of the day is that the lights in the photosynthisis stage cosume the co2 so make shure that the top of your watter has adiquate agitation then if still low can add the carbonates to raise it

 

[reefnut]

I would have to agree that it sounds like a build up of CO2. You can test it with a liter of water or so... just put in a air stone for about 30 minutes and test the PH again.
Tell us about your tank. It's a 40g... do you have glass tops or a hood?? What kind of circulation & filtration do you have?? Inhabitance, refuge? Etc.
BTW, buffers should be used to increase and maintain the alkalintiy... not to increase the PH.

 

[sal713]

40G, w/d, pumps about 500G an hr, 3 small fish, a bunch of crabs & snails, about 30 lbs of live rock, small corals, mushrooms..no top, just the 130w pc unit....
this build up of co2..would this inhibit the growth of coralline algae? With calcium at 500 I would think it would be growing pretty good, but then again, I also was told and believed the superbuffer would raise the ph!

 

[reefnut]

What test kit are you using?? A low PH will have little effect on coralline... although a low PH is supposed to slow calcification.
Superbuffer adds alkalinity which does effect the PH but it shouldn't be used to adjust the PH but rather to adjust the alkalinity.
Did you try aerating a liter of water? Is the room the tank is in closed up?? If so opening a window can do wonders!!

 

[bang guy]

Also make sure your skimmer is operating correctly. A malfunctioning skimmer won't remove as much CO2 as one working correctly.

 

[escape2thewater]

Originally Posted by The reef
could take out 2 gallons if that is better for you
with a wide swing with your ph going from 7.7 to 8.0 that is a big difrence so I would most likly say that the biggest part of your problem is the build up of co2 the reason why it is 8 at the end of the day is that the lights in the photosynthisis stage cosume the co2 so make shure that the top of your watter has adiquate agitation then if still low can add the carbonates to raise it

I dont mean to interrupt this thread with another question, but could this build up of CO2 be caused by insufficient circulation maybe? I have been experiencing a similar low PH condition with my 120g reef lately too and I have been questioning my circulation?
Escape

 

[chrisarc]

Im not nearly as knowledgeable as some people here such as Bang but I think a PH of 8.0 is totally OK. My uncle has had his reef going for about 4 years with his daytime PH at 8.0 and has has great success. My reef has been up for about 7 months at 8.0 and my fish and corals seem to thrive.I wouldnt worry too much if I were you.

 

[reefnut]

Originally Posted by escape2thewater
I dont mean to interrupt this thread with another question, but could this build up of CO2 be caused by insufficient circulation maybe? I have been experiencing a similar low PH condition with my 120g reef lately too and I have been questioning my circulation?
Escape
Absolutely!! In fact, increased circulation could solve the problem completely.
chrisarc, I agree 100%. A PH of 8.0 is fine.

 

[vicchic]

I Agree More Water Movement Is Better, I Use Seachem Proper Ph Of 8.3 And That Has Seemed To Help My Ph Stabablize, You Have To Add It Everyday Until Your Ph Levels Out At 8.3 But The Stuff Works. Good Luck

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by chrisarc
Im not nearly as knowledgeable as some people here such as Bang but I think a PH of 8.0 is totally OK.
I agree that 8.0 is fine but I also think a PH 7.7 indicates a problem somewhere in the system.

 

[the reef]

Originally Posted by ReefNut
I would have to agree that it sounds like a build up of CO2. You can test it with a liter of water or so... just put in a air stone for about 30 minutes and test the PH again.
Tell us about your tank. It's a 40g... do you have glass tops or a hood?? What kind of circulation & filtration do you have?? Inhabitance, refuge? Etc.
BTW, buffers should be used to increase and maintain the alkalintiy... not to increase the PH.
as you said reef nut the ph will rise with a little buffer as the full buffer in carbonates and bicarbonates but if he needs to raise the ph as well as the alk after making shure the co2 build up is not the case wich most likly sounds like it is the problem in his case to raise the ph as well as the alk the carbonates part of the buffer is neded because the carbonates have a higher ph than the bicarbonates.

 

[reefnut]

WHAT?? Slow down... AGAIN, buffers should be used to increase and maintain the alkalintiy... not to increase the PH.

 

[the reef]

Originally Posted by ReefNut
WHAT?? Slow down... AGAIN, buffers should be used to increase and maintain the alkalintiy... not to increase the PH.
what do you think is hapening when you dose kalweser the carbonates part of the buffer is being established more so what your saying with people even doseing those carbonates should also stop as well ?

 

[reefnut]

That's not at all what I'm saying... but I don't know how I can say it any clearer.
What you are saying is to add carbonates until the PH is at a certain level which is a VERY bad idea. Adding carbonates adds to your alkalinity... you should not go over 12dkh or so NO MATTER WHAT YOUR PH IS... and at that you have to keep the calcium balanced or your water chemistry will be WAY out of balance.

 

[sal713]

sounds like I opened up a can of worms...
I tried the test, no change. I ran an air stone all day today and no change..just tested it and its at 7.7 (10:30pm) Also tried 2 different test kits and they are the same.
Any other tests I can do to figure this out?