PH Problem

fireykat04

Member
I can't seem to get my PH above 7.9-8.0.
I have a 65 gallon tank with 75 lbs of LR, 80 lbs of LS. Running a Bak Pak skimmer, a fluval 404 canister filter, my ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0. I'm running 2 power heads, the rotating zoo meds, I did a 30% water change after it cycled, I have been doing a 10 gallon water change once a week since the cycle completed, and I clean the filters in the Fluval during the water maintenance. I have carbon in the Fluval with the ceramic bio cubes. I have the clean up crew of snails, crabs, serpent stars, 2 clowns and 1 Yellow Tang, a few corals, Xenia, clove polps and I'm not sure what the green one is. :notsure:
This has been a great place for reading threads and learning all sorts of things. Thanks in advance for the help! :)
 

sw65galma

Active Member
Sounds like you need to test your alkalinity and Calcium, those both control PH Buffering..
See the archives and FAQ's on PH Buffering...
 

ctgretzky9

Member
SOunds like a buffering problem, assuming you are mixing your change out water correctly as well. 24 hrs of circulation usually brings pH to around 8.2 when mixing up your water. Low Ph usually means there isnt enough buffering power in your water to compensate for the acid being generated in the tank.
Test for calcium, alkalinity and magnesium (this isnt as critical) and post your results asap and we can help.
 

ctgretzky9

Member
PS-8.0 isnt that bad if it is kept this way and is stable. But raising it to 8.1 or 8.2 would be better, but dont get so worried. SOme people beleive that a pH at 7.9-8.0 is better anyway
 

fireykat04

Member
Okay. I went to LFS today and bought the Alkalinity test. If I did it right, it's at 1.25. They were out of Calcium test. I also bought a new PH test just to make sure mine wasn't bad. Sure enough., 8.0! The guy at the LFS suggested a buffer? I know I've read in here that most of you are agaisnt buffers? SO :help: . It is staying at a constant 8.0. I'd like to raise it at least to 8.2.
When you say circulate the water, you mean once I've mixed it; let it sit with circulation on it for 24 hours? I'm running two power heads in my tank with the Fluval canister filter, do you think I need more circulation in there? The flow in the tank is pretty hefty. The two things I left out and not sure if they factor in are SG 1.025 and the water temp is 80-85. My lights seem to heat it up. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
 

ctgretzky9

Member
wow, that is really low. There is part of the problem. Gotta get the alk up to around 3.75 Meq/L or so. Differing opinions on the exact number, but around 3.75 Meq/L is where ya want to be. 8.0 is not bad at all, it is fine. You just don't want it to start dipping more. To raise it is a matter of good water changes since your so close to 8.2, and I like b-ionic 2 part (alk and calcium) to maintain it. Buffers don't raise pH, it only protects it. You can raise your pH by doing a proper water change which will follow.
As far as your light...do you have a pendant or a canopy? Either way, a small fan blowing on the surface of your water will do just fine. Even on really hot summer days, I put my clip on fan and my water never gets above 82. Remember, you'll be using FRESH water for your top off, not salt water. Especially due to evaporation. This is why your alkalinity (buffer capacity) is so important, since most fesh water is acidic, and in the 7.2 or so pH range, though you SHOULD test even your top off water for pH so you know what you are dealing with. Do not top off evaporated water with salt water, use only fresh (unless you are TRYING to raise salinity.)
Here is a waterchange informational. Doing this will help raise pH:
Mixing the salt is easy, and I'll just let you know how I do it.
You will need:
-1 cheap powerhead...like a rio 800 or a smaller maxi jet
-1 cheap heater around 100-150 watt
-1 cheap air pump and stone (somewhat optional)
-1 refractometer if you can...(hydrometers should be outlawed)
-5 gal or more bucket for the mixing( you have a 90 gal tank, you may want to look for something in the 10 gal range), another bucket at 5 gal to make it easier to dump in the tank
-salt mix
-good source water-no tap water unless its been tested
-a notepad to track all of your tests
1. fill bucket of any size about half with the water, then add appropriate salt for that amount ( i fill my 5 gal about 3gal worth, then with the instant ocean, I add 1.5 cups of salt) while stirring very well. (Salinity at the rate IO gives you will be around 1.022, thats too low, but more later about that)
Only add the salt to the water, never add water to the salt.
2. Finish adding your water to the bucket, then add appropriate salt again while mixing. At the rate IO gives you (1/2 cup per gallon) your salinity wil be around 1.022. This is when I add about 1/2 cup more to the water in addition to what I've added, and in a 5 gal scenario, it comes out to 1.025, which is about where you want to be.
3. Add powerhead to circulate and airstone to oxygenate (airstone is optional, i like it though)
4. cover and let circulate for around 24 hrs. A couple hours before you will use the replacement water, add the heater. Test salinity after water gets to targeted temperature, which for most is around 80. But acceptable range is around 77-82 give or take, varying opinions from many people.
5. Test salinity. If this is good, I suggest testing this water for ph and alkalinity and calcium and magnesium. This way you know the shortcomings of the mix. DO NOT ADD ANYHING TO THE REPLACEMENT WATER TO ADJUST except salt. It may cause a preciptaion event, which i learned the hard way one day If salinity is too high or too low, either add a little more salt or just unsalted water to adjust. If you must do this, let sit for a little while longer and circulate. Test salinity again.
6. Ready for the change? What I do, is I dump half of the 5gal into another 5 gal bucket, just to make it easier to handle the weight while pouring in. So that's why I have 2. And if you ave purchased a 10 gal mixing bucket or bigger, you could siphon out the water into the 5 gal bucket. You could also use the powerhead (thanks knowse) to pump the water into your tank instead of dumping it in.
7. Drain appropriate amount of water from your tank. Replace with new water.
8. Wait a few hours or so, then test your tank water. Given what you may know is lacking in your replacement water, plus the test on your tank water after replacement, this will give you a good idea what is needed.
Now you can add your b-ionic alk and calcium if needed and any other additives to the tank. Best to wait though to add anythig about 24 hrs and test then. But always test tank water before you add anything, and anything you add, do it slowly. Better to adjust over time than to try and quick fix things.
Hope this helps and good luck!!!
 

fireykat04

Member
WOW.. U just told me several things I didn't know. That is excellent info. I am copying it to notepad just to be sure I have it. My lights are the PC lights and it sits close to the water. It has a built in fan but, I'll find another fan to help. You have been a great help!!! Thank you very much. How long have you been doing saltwater tanks?
 

fireykat04

Member
I'm wondering if over skimming could have anything to do with the low alkalinity and PH staying at 8.0. In order to keep the bubbles out of my tank I have to adjust it to high?
 

ctgretzky9

Member
lol....almost everything I just told you i learned here or on a couple of other boards I have gone too, and some light reading. I cant take the credit. Been doing reef tanks around 2 years, saltwater for about 15 yrs or so, but sporadically. Just recently really became interested enough to go beyond me adding fish to salt water and hope they live.
I cant help you with the skimmer. I dont have one. I am using a fuge with cheato, canister and wet/dry. Works for me. I was looking into a skimmer, that may come one day, but I havent seen the need for it thus far. If it aint broke...
Good luck! You may want to post your skimmer q as a new thread....
 

bang guy

Moderator
To avoid disasterous confusion it's a really good idea to specify the unit of measure when discussing ALK.
Meq/L, ppm, and dKH are common measures.
 

fireykat04

Member
Don't get to technical on me. :notsure: I'm still new to all this. Thanks for the help though, this place is great. I spend most of my time reading threads. Seems someone always post a question that I was wondering about. :joy:
 

ctgretzky9

Member
lol...technical is important as guy pointed out. BIG diff between Meq/L, ppm, and dKH!
Use that 3.75 Meq/L in ppm or dKH, and see how bad the tank will get :scared:
 

fireykat04

Member
Okay.. I guess I am going to have to sit down and read up on this stuff. When I had my saltwater tank years ago. Half this stuff didn't exist. :happyfish
I'm off to a different LFS tomorrow to try find a calcium test. Any thoughts on which ones are prefered? IF I get it I'll let you know how that goes.
 

bang guy

Moderator
I really like Salifert. The test kits on this site are priced pretty good but it looks like they're out of Calcium.
 

fireykat04

Member
Thanks Bang Guy, everyone must be reading in here and checking their calcium. I can't find any calcium test at any of my LFS.
One other thing, is the Salifert test kits power or liguid? The new ph one I bought was a powder and what a pain. It was hard to get the llittle silver foil bags torn open to put the powder in the test tube.
 

fireykat04

Member
GREAT.. As soon as they get it back in stock I will order it!! Thank you, everyone in here has been a big help! :joy:
 

hkgar

Member
What time of day did you test for PH. PH will very during the day, lower min the morining before the lights come on and then rising during the day after the lights come on. Try to test at the same time every day to get consistent readings.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by hkgar
What time of day did you test for PH. PH will very during the day, lower min the morining before the lights come on and then rising during the day after the lights come on. Try to test at the same time every day to get consistent readings.
That's good advice. I'd even go further and say test once in the am and once in the pm to get an idea of what your PH is doing.
 
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