pH problem

[beaslbob]

well baking soda seems to be working just fine for me. Got the idea here:
www.wetwebmedia.com/marphfaq3.htm
(also has formula to answer the previous question on how much)

 

[toddpolish]

here's a question, do you guys aerate the water you use to top off from evaporation???
maybe that's my problem...

 

[reefnut]

Originally posted by toddpolish
here's a question, do you guys aerate the water you use to top off from evaporation???
maybe that's my problem...
I do, I have a power head in the top off tub with the air hose hooked up.

 

[bang guy]

Just some random thoughts from Bang Guy. These are of course all opinions.
Buffering is always a bad idea unless your ALK is low. You will simply be chasing numbers and it's very likely you will create an imbalance between Ca and CO3.
Buffering freshly mixed saltwater is a REALLY bad idea. It's very likely you will cause the precipitation if CaCO3 which can actually lower the PH.
PH fluctuations are normal. 8.0 - 8.5 is an acceptable swing. The PH in the wild reef swings much further. It's expected that PH will fall as photosynthesis subsides when the lights shut off.
When measuring your PH you need at least two points during the same day and more data points are better. This is where PH meters are worthwhile when they measure the low & high for the day. It's acceptable to measure early morning and averaging with an evening reading. If your average is between 8.0 and 8.5 then you're fine. Worry about something else. If you're lower than 8.0 consistently from week to week then you might consider dripping Kalk in place of your current Calcium/Carbonate additive, or perhaps you just need more water flow across the surface. If you're higher then 8.5 consistently over a few weeks you might consider a Calcium reactor.
There's plenty to worry about with saltwater tanks. The water's PH is worth being concerned about over a long term, it's not a short term problem. Many a tank crash has been caused simply because someone wanted an immediate fix to a PH that wasn't even a problem in the first place.
Baking Soda is perfectly fine as an additive for Carbonate when ALK is lower then it should be.

 

[jlem]

Beaslbob. Before you tote your all knowing horn why don't you read the hole post. ( DIFFERENT SALTS and sodium bicarbonite ). Please read a whole entire post before you try to make someone look like a moron.
Bang Guy. A cup of buffer will probably screw up mixed salt water and precipitate CaCO3, but a small amount can help RO/DI water reach a higher PH 8.3 rather than 8.0 which though acceptable is a little on the lower end .

 

[toddpolish]

just received the 2 tests today, here are the results...(assuming I did it correctly)
KH in dKH = 7.84
Alk = 2.7979
Calcium =320
ok, what do I need to do/worry about???

 

[toddpolish]

where'd everyone go? posted test results above...

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by toddpolish
just received the 2 tests today, here are the results...(assuming I did it correctly)
KH in dKH = 7.84
Alk = 2.7979
Calcium =320
ok, what do I need to do/worry about???
to answer the post after the quoted post. Gee I guess they got tired or something LOL.
To be honest I am not sure what the kh should be. But the calcuim and ph about what I had at two months. The alk test kit I bought just registered high or low, and was always high.
My ph went down (from 8.8+ to 8.2) in the 20g macro algae tank when I added the power head. You might try reducing your filtering/circulation and see what happens. And again, try the baking soda and see what happens. Also if you do not have coral rocks or crushed corals you may want to add some to help add buffering and calcium.
I definately would recommend slowly bringing the ph up to over 8 before adding fish. But a mollie could probably take it.

 

[reefnut]

I think opinions very a little here but this is what I'm shooting for.
Alk= 4
dKH= 11.2
Calcium= 440

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by ReefNut
I think opinions very a little here but this is what I'm shooting for.
Alk= 4
dKH= 11.2
Calcium= 440
thanks. Now I know what good values for those things are.

 

[cincyreefer]

I do not recommend using baking soda to bring your pH up. It will raise it too quickly and is not a stable buffer.

 

[toddpolish]

thanks, yes, I've heard the pros and cons of baking soda.
as far as the other numbers, if I remember correctly from the salifert test (and I'll recheck it tonight), it said ideally for Alk= 3 and Calcium= 400.
I have read elsewhere that Calcium of 420-450 is ideal.
I'm trying to figure out how very far off I am (and if I should be concerned) and what I should do about it
just lookin for opinions. thanks

 

[toddpolish]

I was advised to maybe add Kent Marine's Osmo Prep to the RO/DI water.
I added Osmo Prep to 20g which I am preparing for a water change. The KH in dKH is 13.8 (alk - 4.91)...WITHOUT ADDING THE IO salt yet.
I also added some CC in a filter bag to my sump.

 

[bang guy]

I'll just repeat my opinion, take it or leave it
Buffering the water before adding salt mix is always a bad idea.

 

[toddpolish]

why can't there be just one way to make everything right in this hobby??? arrrrgggggg

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by toddpolish
why can't there be just one way to make everything right in this hobby??? arrrrgggggg
I agree with you whole heartedly. One of the nice things about standards is that there is so many of them to chose from. The same is true in this hobby.

 

[toddpolish]

I just worry when my pH is reading 7.7
My friends think I'm insane with this hobby...the amount of time and effort it takes.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by toddpolish
I just worry when my pH is reading 7.7
My friends think I'm insane with this hobby...the amount of time and effort it takes.
Your friends probably don't have saltwater tanks. I understand completely. My 55g. is testing for ph much better now. Last week I "skipped" the baking soda and this week ph was 8.2 or so (purple tinge in the test). I am beginning to think the lowering in ph and the returning to 8.2 or so, is just one of the later phases in the cycle. As long as you fish survive, why not just wait another month or so. everything may correct itself.

 

[toddpolish]

you know beaslbob, I bet you are correct if I just wait it out, everything will be fine. My 2 fish are doing great from what I can tell (still early though).
However, I feel like it'd be a waste to dump out 20g of mixed up water. I may just do smaller water changes this week.
or, maybe this is a good opportunity to get a little more LR online and cycle it in the rubbermaid I have the water in. hmmm???? decisions....

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by toddpolish
you know beaslbob, I bet you are correct if I just wait it out, everything will be fine. My 2 fish are doing great from what I can tell (still early though).
However, I feel like it'd be a waste to dump out 20g of mixed up water. I may just do smaller water changes this week.
or, maybe this is a good opportunity to get a little more LR online and cycle it in the rubbermaid I have the water in. hmmm???? decisions....
I think the important thing is to be consistant. That way you can determine what works and what doesn't. And you tank does seem to be doing well.
Don't know how it will work but i am doing an experiment. I got a plastic tub at the dollar store. 65 Qt for $5.00. Bought 50# play sand ($2.74) and 40# (2.99) pure salt for water softener. It took three cups of salt to get 1.02. Put sand in the tub, added the water, added some macro algae. Tub is on north facing screened in porch without any lighting. Inital parameters were ammonia 0.0, nitrites, 0.0, nitrates 10-20, ph way below 7.2 (transparent almost no color yellow LOL). After initial setup the water was crystal clear. My goal is to get fish and macro algae/plants to balance out so little maintenance is required. Hey for about $12.00 plus some macro algae, it's worth the investiment LOL.