PH question

[nine28girl]

Hi to all, I have had my set up for about 15 months and never had a ph problem. Now suddenly I am fighting it everyday. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Thanks in advance for any advise!
Samantha

 

[bang guy]

Low PH or High PH?
You say you are fighting it, are you actively trying to alter the PH?
PH is almost always caused from excess CO2. Sometimes it's from decaying matter. Check you waterflow to make sure no powerheads are clogged and make sure your skimmer is operating properly. Look for built-up detritus or something dead or left over fish food.

 

[nine28girl]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
Low PH or High PH?
You say you are fighting it, are you actively trying to alter the PH?
PH is almost always caused from excess CO2. Sometimes it's from decaying matter. Check you waterflow to make sure no powerheads are clogged and make sure your skimmer is operating properly. Look for built-up detritus or something dead or left over fish food.

High PH, it keeps jumping to 8.4 - I am using ph down everyday. My skimmer has been going crazy too - I am cleaning it every other day now and I have never had that problem either. There is nothing dead in the tank. We have a ton of LR can that be a problem? What about bio balls? Are you supposed to clean them?

 

[kmc]

I generally run mine between 8.3 and 8.4

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Nine28girl
High PH, it keeps jumping to 8.4 - I am using ph down everyday. My skimmer has been going crazy too - I am cleaning it every other day now and I have never had that problem either. There is nothing dead in the tank. We have a ton of LR can that be a problem? What about bio balls? Are you supposed to clean them?
There is nothing wrong with 8.4.
never, ever use a product like PH down or PH up or "Buffer" to alter the PH of your tank water. This is always a bad idea.
The PH is probably climbing during the day because of photosynthesis removing CO2 and adding O2. It's not a bad thing.

 

[joshradio]

8.4 isn't horrible... no don't clean the balls, those have the bacteria you want... your lights play a role in pH balance... if you're testing at the height of the lighting time, it can be higher, and lower if testing near a timebefore the tank is lit.
There's a pH buffer out there that takes it to an even 8.3 whether high or low... are you dosing it with anything in conjunction with Alkalinity? or Calicium? (i.e. Purple Up)

 

[nine28girl]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
There is nothing wrong with 8.4.
never, ever use a product like PH down or PH up or "Buffer" to alter the PH of your tank water. This is always a bad idea.
The PH is probably climbing during the day because of photosynthesis removing CO2 and adding O2. It's not a bad thing.
Why is using ph down bad - I had no idea. The light on my ph thing always starts flashing at 8.4 so I though this was bad?? What is considered a good ph range?

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Nine28girl
Why is using ph down bad - I had no idea. The light on my ph thing always starts flashing at 8.4 so I though this was bad?? What is considered a good ph range?
An average daily PH between 8.1 and 8.4 is ideal. 8.0 - 8.5 is acceptable. This is an average. Take the PH a few times throughout a 24 hour period and average the readings. It will typically be higher toward the end of the day and lower first thing in the morning.
PH is an indicator of whats going on in your aquarium similar to a fever thermometer teloing you how your body is doing. Using PH down to "fix" the PH is exactly like using a ice cube on a thermometer to "fix" a fever.

 

[joshradio]

Some people just think that that natural process of adjusting is best... Me, my thought is, what's so natural about having a coral reef in your living room? Whatever I can do to help my tank... but I like to use the pH buffer which keeps it to 8.3, whether high or low!

 

[joshradio]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
Using PH down to "fix" the PH is exactly like using a ice cube on a thermometer to "fix" a fever.
I like to think of it more as the Tylenol to break the fever and bring it down! :hilarious

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by JoshRadio
I like to think of it more as the Tylenol to break the fever and bring it down! :hilarious
My point is that the underlying problem is still there. Only now you've messed up your water parameters making is more difficult to diagnose the real problem.

 

[nine28girl]

Awesome, thanks to both of you! I appreciate it. This has been going on now for about 2 weeks and it's been making me crazy. I don't like to add things either truthfully but when you have to you have to and I feel like if it is once in while it's ok for the overall health of the tank. What concerned me was that it has become a battle and 2 weeks is too long to keep adding anything. I figured there must be a problem somewhere. I still wonder because it's never acted like this before but as long as 8.4 is ok I will just keep monitoring it. The ph thing is one of those monitors that is always in the tank and gives you a digital reading - maybe I just look at it too much!
Any thoughts on too much LR and bio balls - some where I heard you should remove them. Is this true?

 

[nine28girl]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
My point is that the underlying problem is still there. Only now you've messed up your water parameters making is more difficult to diagnose the real problem.
What could be the problem then?

 

[joshradio]

The actual buffer I'm talking about doesn't "mess" with param's... it simply neutralizes your wrongs... IF you're not an expert chemist figuring out Alkalinity or Basic principles, you'll nuke everything in your tank... these buffers help the nubes just starting... once you get a grasp of the hobby you can make you own decisions!

 

[joshradio]

Originally Posted by Nine28girl
Awesome, thanks to both of you! I appreciate it. This has been going on now for about 2 weeks and it's been making me crazy. I don't like to add things either truthfully but when you have to you have to and I feel like if it is once in while it's ok for the overall health of the tank. What concerned me was that it has become a battle and 2 weeks is too long to keep adding anything. I figured there must be a problem somewhere. I still wonder because it's never acted like this before but as long as 8.4 is ok I will just keep monitoring it. The ph thing is one of those monitors that is always in the tank and gives you a digital reading - maybe I just look at it too much!
Any thoughts on too much LR and bio balls - some where I heard you should remove them. Is this true?
So what all is in your tank... the entire inventory?

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Nine28girl
What could be the problem then?
For High PH (again, your PH is fine) the problem is almost always a deficiency of CO2. This can be from leaving lights on too long, adding limewater too fast, or a PH buffer overdose. High PH isn't a common problem.
Aerating the water usually solves the problem by adding CO2 back into the water. Skimmers are good at this as is good waterflow (20X turnover rate).

 

[kmc]

Bang,
I'm not challenging your advice just trying to better understand. I add a little Reef Builder at each water change which I believe acts as a buffer and maintains the Ph between 8.3 and 8.4. I am doing this because I thought that flucuations in Ph is a bad thing and I am better off keeping it stable. Is this a bad assumption on my part?
Thanks

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by kmc
Bang,
I'm not challenging your advice just trying to better understand. I add a little Reef Builder at each water change which I believe acts as a buffer and maintains the Ph between 8.3 and 8.4. I am doing this because I thought that flucuations in Ph is a bad thing and I am better off keeping it stable. Is this a bad assumption on my part?
Thanks
Lowering the PH fluctuation is probably a good thing. An balanced Alkalinity level will usually accomplish this. That's what you're doing when you add your Reef Builder, it raises Alkalinity. If Alkalinity is low then raising it is fine. If Alkalinity is high and you raise it more you can cause a disaster.
What I'm saying is add your "buffer" to maintain Alkalinity. This means you have to test Alk levels. Don't add buffer to raise PH, it's the wrong reason.
The marketers have brainwashed many new hobbiests into thinking a PH of 8.3 is healthy for the tank and needs to be maintained using chemicals. This is backwards. A PH of 8.3 indicates that the aquarium is healthy. Using chemicals to adjust it to 8.3 doesn't make the tank healthy it just masks one of your indicators.
Tylenol doesn't make you healthy, it just lowers the fever. It doesn't fix the problem.

 

[kmc]

Oh Boy! Another test kit. I'm starting to feel like that Beaker character from the Muppets,

What is considered a good reading fro Alkalinity?

 

[earlybird]

You seem to be in a good position. I've read a lot of posts where people have a difficult time raising their pH. Buffers to adjust seems to be a topic on this forum that won't lend itself to compromise.