Ph?

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Mikeyjer
DI water's PH is 7. 7 is neutral. 7+ is Acidic 7- is Base. Learned that in Chemistry back in school. Do add buffer to your water to bring up the PH to 8.4 Adding DI water alone WILL lower your PH. As for normal water, depends where your water is coming from, it can differ from one area or one company to another. IF I remember right, our faucet water is 7+ since we don't drink base water. We definatelly don't drink DI water cause it's not good for you. Add the buffer to the DI or RO water in the amount that it needs, let it dissolve then pour into your tank. Good Luck!
Ummm actually bases are at the high pH, anything over 7, the pH scale is a exponential scale that measures the amount of free protons(Hydrogen ions) in a solution. the number is actually a negative exponent so as the number goes up there are actually less spare protons which gives you a base.
As far as the idea of whether or not to add buffer to your top off.
The buffer that is already in your water remains even after the water evaporates so for top off water you should not need to add buffer. For water changes however you do need to add buffer. If you notice your pH dropping then also add buffer, that is why we test. Buffer should not hurt as long as you don't go crazy and use 5 times as much as recommended. A buffer is just a bunch of weak acids and bases that work to maintain the pH at the desired level.
I just wanted to clarify those two things without getting into to much detail, but I guess you could say that Chemistry is kind of my thing.

 

[reefnut]

Why would you need to add alkalinity to newly mixed saltwater?? Even small amounts added to newly mixed saltwater can cause precipitation!!

 

[carshark]

ha ha ha.. nice. well ok i have measured my culligan ro water its in the low 6's for ph, this however is the first time i have heard anyone mention that the buffer will remain in the tank even during freshwater change outs... kinda scares me because a very trusted person on this site stated that i should buffer the RO water im using for the changeout in my hypo process.. i have already added the correct amount for my main display before i started hypo, as well as adding buffer to my RO water, because thats what i was told, i think i am going to add new fresh unbuffed water from now on so my sytem isnt overloaded with buffer, my alk. is at 90ppm so i think its safe for now isnt it? anything else you can think of MR. Chemistry?

 

[jerthunter]

If you just use water and salt your pH may appear fine but it will lower rapidly, a buffer should be added so your pH will resist changes. To deal with the precepitation let you water sit with flow for a day before you add it to your tank.
And no the buffer will not remain in the tank if you remove the water, the buffer is removed if you remove the water so you should add more. Now if you are just topping off the water, ie the water level lowered do to evaporation then you do not need to add buffer unless you notice changes in your pH

 

[reefnut]

I'm not sure of the correct proceess for running tanks during hypo. It may be needed due to the low salinity levels??

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
If you just use water and salt your pH may appear fine but it will lower rapidly, a buffer should be added so your pH will resist changes. To deal with the precepitation let you water sit with flow for a day before you add it to your tank.
And no the buffer will not remain in the tank if you remove the water, the buffer is removed if you remove the water so you should add more. Now if you are just topping off the water, ie the water level lowered do to evaporation then you do not need to add buffer unless you notice changes in your pH

right ok thats what i thought, however you say move the water that i have(freshwater) i would think that a mix water ready for a simple maintnence water change would need movement but fresh RO for the simple purpose of lowering salinity needs movement as well?

 

[reefnut]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
If you just use water and salt your pH may appear fine but it will lower rapidly, a buffer should be added so your pH will resist changes. To deal with the precepitation let you water sit with flow for a day before you add it to your tank.
That is just simply not true. First allowing the water to sit will do nothing for the precipitation caused by the addition of more alkalinity. Second, salts contain alkalinity... why one would think the PH would lower rapidly is beyond me... other than just not understanding the chemistry involved.
Now, you need to monitor and adjust your alkalinity OF THE TANK but that's a different subject.

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by ReefNut
I'm not sure of the correct proceess for running tanks during hypo. It may be needed due to the low salinity levels??

well example: i have a 75 gallon tank i am hypo-ing. i figure about 15 gallons or more it is going to take to get the correct 1.009, so, with all that water i am adding with a very low ph will bring down the ph as well, so thats why adding buffer to the RO water will help maintain my ph during that much of a swing in ph.. i think i am correct in this but i need advice always

 

[jerthunter]

No you don't need movement for what you are doing. Since you are just using freshwater you do not need to worry it, I mean it wouldn't hurt you but you don't need it in your case.

 

[reefnut]

Originally Posted by carshark
well example: i have a 75 gallon tank i am hypo-ing. i figure about 15 gallons or more it is going to take to get the correct 1.009, so, with all that water i am adding with a very low ph will bring down the ph as well, so thats why adding buffer to the RO water will help maintain my ph during that much of a swing in ph.. i think i am correct in this but i need advice always
I would assume that is true if a "very trusted person on this site" told you so. There are two differant subjects here... normal operation and hypo mode.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by ReefNut
That is just simply not true. First allowing the water to sit will do nothing for the precipitation caused by the addition of more alkalinity. Second, salts contain alkalinity... why one would think the PH would lower rapidly is beyond me... other than just not understanding the chemistry involved.
Now, you need to monitor and adjust your alkalinity OF THE TANK but that's a different subject.

Umm, well ok...... rather then starting a silly argument over the behavior or acids and bases in a solution I will let everyone do whatever they think is right.

 

[reefnut]

Just don't lead people in the wrong direction.

 

[jerthunter]

Please, there is no need to try and insult me. I do know what I am talking about but it isn't worth argueing with anyone since I am posting about saltwater fish and not teaching a chemistry class here. However if you are truely interested in understanding acids and bases and why buffers are so important I will try to explain it to you in a level that can be understood with only a basic understanding of chemistry

 

[reefnut]

What you are missing is the salts contain the acids or "buffers" needed. I'm not trying to insult anyone but let's base this conversation on science and not opinions. As you say, for people like me with the "basic understanding of chemistry"...

 

[reefnut]

and btw, this basic chemistry has a LOT to do with our tanks so it is not something we should take lightly. I do indeed understand the importance here...

 

[jerthunter]

Ok, I will try to make this short, I am sure there are many people who would understand an in depth scientific explaination but few who would want to waste the time. So to make this simple. Sea salt mixes do have some amount of buffers in them. It has been my experience that if you do not add and extra buffer that pH will tend to drop. Rather then explain why this happens I trust that most people have seen this happen for themselves. If you don't use buffers and your pH remains constant that is good for you. When I started I did not use buffers and I would notice my pH dropping over time, so since that time I have used buffers and I have not suffered any negative effects because of it. This is why I recommend using buffers.

 

[reefnut]

My experience is buffers or alkalinity needs to be added because it gets used up by corals and other critters... if that is what you mean??
Buffers should not be added to salt mixes or top off water to adjust PH. Monitor your alkalinity and calcium and dose to maintain these levels!!
ALKALINITY is what stabilizes the PH in our sw tanks... carbonates and bi-carbonates.
This really is not all that complicated... sense even someone with my basic knowledge of chemistry can understand it!!

 

[jerthunter]

There are other things besides Corals that can make it necessary to add buffers to your water but critters pretty much covers everything. Your best bet is to test your water on a regular basis, one of those tests being for your KH(carbonate hardness), and of course it is always good to check everything else too.

 

[reefnut]

Now that's something we can agree on lol.

 

[techrider6]

over the weekend i added ph buffer to my tank when i got home saturday night i had
white stuff all over my glass and overflow so beware when adding ph buffer to your tank.
Originally Posted by nater

I would use caution when adding buffers to directly alter PH. Try researching this in other threads--maintaining your systems alkalinity and calcium levels is directly related to a stable PH. Adding buffers to affect these parameters is much less likely to cause problems down the road.
techrider62