Phospahte levels

J

jstdv8

Guest
So, i got my first coral yesterday. its a two piece pulsing xenia. it looked fabulous at the LFS I put it in my tank and it was pulsing away. i woke up the next morning and the stalks have turned from white to purple they are no longer pulsing and alot of times they don't even open, just stay kind of retracted, they don't look good. So I did all of the basic tests again ammonia is at 0 nitrites at 0 and phosphates at 20-40. I got the xenia in the first place because I heard that it eats nitrates so i thought that might be a good combination due to it not needing alot of care and Im new to the hobby. My lighting is not the best ATM i have a 90 gallon tank with about 45-55 lbs of live rock and Ive got a nice tonga branch that I put the coral on so it would be about half way up the 30" tank getting it as close to the light as possible. Lighting ATM is a power compact with two 55 watt bulbs. the LFS guy seemed to think that while this was marginal I shouldnt have any problems if I could get it up high in the tank.
So after doing all my tests I found a phosphate kit that I didnt know I had that came with the tank and I did that test and it said my phospahte was at
.5 and according to the phosphate guide in the kit that anything over .3 retards corals. So, in an effort to fix the problem right away and maybe save my xenias I went to the petzoo and all they had was phosguard. it comes in a little bag, so I got a longer mesh bag from the store and hung the phosguard bag inside the long bag down in front of one of my HK's to move the water through it.
Any other thoughts on why my xenia is not looking good? any thoughts on a good better best on removing the phosphates? I was going to try some kalkwasser but I didnt have anything to get a slow drip with becase my LFS doesnt have a clue what kalswasser even is let alone a good way to get a drip system going. I would like to mention that the guy I bought the corals from just has corals and fish no chemicals or anything for sale. I have to buy the other things seperatley.
I got some kalk and some Mrs. wages pickling lime with the tank when I bought it. If I should be using those I will drive to anchorage tommorow and get a drip system of some sort from the higher end fish stores.
Any advice on any of the subjects is welcome
Thanks in advance
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
I should also mention that I don't have a refugium set up yet, i am running a super skimmer and I have 1 good sized lionfish , 4 good sized snails, a blue legged crab, and emerald crab and 6 herits for my starter cleaner crew, will probably be adding more shortly once I get the water levels more stable. I also have brown algae on all of the rocks a little on the glass in the front and a fair amount on the glass in the back and some on the HKs The snails are annahilating the algae wherever they go, but they move awful slow. Im assuming when the phsophates go down the algea will die off, should I be cleaning it off the glass in the back or just let it get eaten or die off? I didnt clean it becasue I didnt want to put more crap into the water.
Thanks again.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Ha, if i lived in homer I wouldnt need an aquarium, Id just go diving :p
 
nigerbang

nigerbang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3170709
Ha, if i lived in homer I wouldnt need an aquarium, Id just go diving :p
Very true....
Is the area around Big Lake back to normal now after the fire?
If you lived in North Slope you could have a nice Ice Aquarium in the winter LOL..
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Big lake is alot better than it was but still most of the larger trees that dint burn up in the fire just stand there all bare and dead. pretty ugly, but the undergrowth is getting to be pretty tall now and the little trees are about 10' tall in most places so you dont see all the destruction on the ground anymore.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
I don't think PO4 is your problem.
What is your Alkalinity and what is the temp & PH difference between morning & nighttime? How are you maintaining ALkalinity? How far do you allow it to drop before bringing it back up? What is your target level?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3170698
So, i got my first coral yesterday. its a two piece pulsing xenia. it looked fabulous at the LFS I put it in my tank and it was pulsing away. i woke up the next morning and the stalks have turned from white to purple they are no longer pulsing and alot of times they don't even open, just stay kind of retracted, they don't look good. So I did all of the basic tests again ammonia is at 0 nitrites at 0 and phosphates at 20-40. I got the xenia in the first place because I heard that it eats nitrates so i thought that might be a good combination due to it not needing alot of care and Im new to the hobby. My lighting is not the best ATM i have a 90 gallon tank with about 45-55 lbs of live rock and Ive got a nice tonga branch that I put the coral on so it would be about half way up the 30" tank getting it as close to the light as possible. Lighting ATM is a power compact with two 55 watt bulbs. the LFS guy seemed to think that while this was marginal I shouldnt have any problems if I could get it up high in the tank.
So after doing all my tests I found a phosphate kit that I didnt know I had that came with the tank and I did that test and it said my phospahte was at
.5 and according to the phosphate guide in the kit that anything over .3 retards corals. So, in an effort to fix the problem right away and maybe save my xenias I went to the petzoo and all they had was phosguard. it comes in a little bag, so I got a longer mesh bag from the store and hung the phosguard bag inside the long bag down in front of one of my HK's to move the water through it.
Any other thoughts on why my xenia is not looking good? any thoughts on a good better best on removing the phosphates? I was going to try some kalkwasser but I didnt have anything to get a slow drip with becase my LFS doesnt have a clue what kalswasser even is let alone a good way to get a drip system going. I would like to mention that the guy I bought the corals from just has corals and fish no chemicals or anything for sale. I have to buy the other things seperatley.
I got some kalk and some Mrs. wages pickling lime with the tank when I bought it. If I should be using those I will drive to anchorage tommorow and get a drip system of some sort from the higher end fish stores.
Any advice on any of the subjects is welcome
Thanks in advance

For an easier read try separating the paragraphs...
Anyway xenia are really tough to kill, to be honest you don't have enough light. Two 65W min. They are used to the lights at the LFS..They may adjust and do just fine, so don't give up yet.
They sell a product called phosphate-E...it is a treatment you pour into the tank...a few capfuls depending on the tank size, it all clouds over for about an hour then clears, THEN use the little package of phosguard to keep things in check.
In a 90g reef you NEED more rock. To get the xenia higher in the tank pile the rock into one corner or use a large false ceramic coral to make up the volume, to bring them closer to the light. I did that once and it works great for a quick fix...when you don't have time to cure live rock. Don't worry, the fake coral will seed like live rock over time, but it isn't cheap...I paid $50.00 for a good sized piece. I still have it in the tank today to stablize the rocks I use to make my cave.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Bang,
my alkalinity is about 3-3.2 or so, which is high of course. I was told that it would fix itself and that it doenst have much bearing on things. Apparently that might not be the case. My temp i keep at 76-78, PH seems to change around quite abit and i don't know how to fix it. Ive added sechem buffer which brings it right to 8.3 but then the next day i test it and the PH is down to 7.8-8.0 or so sometimes. I see your ad says buffer does not fix PH, maybe you could give me some tips. Im using an RO/DI system that is about 1 year old and probably needs the filters changed. My water I use for that is well water, my house has two in house filters, one is a standard sediment filter and the other is a carbon filter for taste. Before my tank started its mini cycle (I bought the tank and most of the inhabitants off craigslist) my alk was showing normal which i would guess by my chart is about 2.2 or so, once the cylce got to the end my alk was very high. ammonia is at 0 nitirites at 0 and nitrates at 20-40. I did a 20% water change yesterday but didnt notice a drop in anything which is kinda wierd.
Would you also reccomend a change in the salt I use? I was told to get instant ocean by the guy who sold me the tank, but all of the local stores were out and I needed salt so I bought the red sea stuff.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
When i got up this morning I tested the phos again and still the same. The xenia are looking quite a bit better. they are wierd, they seem to go in streaks, sometimes one stalk looks terrible and I think its had it and the next thing you know its looking taller and the otehr stalk is all shrivled up. now one stalk has a white trunk again and the other one is partially white and the one with the white stalk has all of its fingers open on the top, n ot pulsing, but looking better, and much taller than last night. the opther one is looking better too allthough all of the fingers are still closed, but its reaching taller.
so it encouraging at least.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Sorry flower, my run on sentences are rediculous. I'll try and keep that to a minimum
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3170991
When i got up this morning I tested the phos again and still the same. The xenia are looking quite a bit better. they are wierd, they seem to go in streaks, sometimes one stalk looks terrible and I think its had it and the next thing you know its looking taller and the otehr stalk is all shrivled up. now one stalk has a white trunk again and the other one is partially white and the one with the white stalk has all of its fingers open on the top, n ot pulsing, but looking better, and much taller than last night. the opther one is looking better too allthough all of the fingers are still closed, but its reaching taller.
so it encouraging at least.

Xenia language:
Some open and some closed = "fingers" closed...it is feeding, pulsing it is looking for food...
Taller = seeking light...
All closed and shrunk = stress
Anyway your xenia seems to be all happy now..congratulations on your first coral..
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3170993
Sorry flower, my run on sentences are rediculous. I'll try and keep that to a minimum


I just saw your post...LOL..I type so slow. I wasn't trying to correct you in any way...I have bad eyes and I land up reading the sentence below the spot I meant to.
So when things are all meshed together...I have trouble reading. xenia are my favorite coral...they are so hardy and always dancing.
Happy Reefing
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Your salt is fine.
I don't know if Seachem has changed their Buffer composition or not. It used to be really high in Borate. Borate will raise Alkalinity but corals cannot use it to form Calcium carbonate. There is a good chance that this is a problem.
I wopuld stop trying to artifically raise your PH and start focusing in on maintaining Alkalinity. I would purchase a good test kit that is accurate to 0.1 Meq/L. Then, use baking soda to try to maintain Alkalinity around 3.5Meq/L. Do't raise it all at once. I'd suggest adding 2 tsp of Baking soda to each gallon of topoff water you use and chart what happens to you water levels over a couple weeks.
I know this may come too late for your Xenia, that really can't be helped without stressing everything else in the tank. Go slow with parameter changes.
You also need to start testing Calcium levels. You may need to go to limewater or a two part additive to keep alk and Ca balanced. I actually recommend this approach but first try to correct your Alkalinity.
As far as your PH, make sure your skimmer is operating properly, you have lots & lots of waterflow, and no mechanical filters are clogged with detritus.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
I picked up a calcium tester in Anchorage today, so ill give that a shot an see what im at. i also bought a dripper that i hope will work for the kalkwasser. Also scored a 5 gallon bucket of instant ocean salt, they are always out of stock :p
I have dosed a very minimal amount of calcium as I read that calcium and alk go together so assumed my calc was low cause my alk was so high.
Would any of this make my fish act lethargic, my lion is just sitting on the bottom and has been for 2 days now. I was told they sometimes perch for long periods, but hes not looking too great. I duuno
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
calcium tested out at 380 on an API tester 19 drops till it turned blue. coolest test ive ever seen. was pink pink pink, and then bam its bright blue. pretty crazy :)
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
So I read up on PH and alk inbalances and it appears that my low PH may be due to lack of good areation, possibly from just having 2 #2 Hk's for movement or possibly from having too much CO2 in my home to start with.
First step is to get some #4's and some more live rock and im going to do light dosing of limewater starting tonight since my PH and calcium are low.
 
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