Phosphate....my take on things

beth

Administrator
Staff member
So steve, if you do test zero for phosphates, even though you are only testing the water, then you can assume that you don't have a problem? As the inport/export ratio is balanced, right?
Also, what test kit would you suggest?
I have not had detectable phosphates in my tank since day 1. It is a reef and I hardly have any fish, but I feed my tank heavily with mostly fresh seafoods. It is also has the "ticking bomb" dsb. :)
 

bdhough

Active Member
i guess i will experiment with the carbon and see what it does. in any case its a good excuse to go spend money tomorrow at the fish store. YAY....
 

steveweast

Member
Beth...wrong...If the water tests zero, it only means that the available inorganic phosphate inputs (foods, etc) are being locked up organically by the algaes,sand bed, liverock, etc. Phosphate doesn't last long freely in the water ...all the bacteria and algaes want it....the increase in total phosphate in the system (locked and unlocked) is a hard thing to test for since our test kits can only detect what's in the water (unlocked). The increase in the total amount of phosphate usually manifests itself as increased hair algae and cyano.....again, this why some tanks have a hair algae problem and still test zero for phosphates So, in essence, you are correct in saying that "it is balanced" except that this balance is created by an increase in algaes or a decrease in the amount of phosphate holding ability of the sand and liverock. If the phoshate isn't exported by some means, the system, some day, will no longer be able to hold anymore phosphate and begin to release it back into the system. So, if you can detect phosphates, you already have reached the system's capacity... I only use my phosphate test kit (Sailfert) to measure things for phosphate leaching that I want to add to the tank... like carbon...the tank water will always register zero...or at least I hope so.
Here's an interesting tip that some folks are doing to test their sand beds... they take a water sample right near or slightly below the sand surface and test that to see if the sand bed is leaching phosphates...interesting, I thought.
 

jess74

Member
stevewest-
Please forgive me if this is a dumb question, still new to SW. I was wondering if you have controlled much of the waste in the tank and don't have much or any algae; do you have a cleanup crew? Or is that unnecessary? BTW- This is great info!! :yes:
 

steveweast

Member
After I switched to my new tank back in September, I was still having a pesky type of red macro/hair algae that kept cropping up. I knew that my phosphate inputs were exceeding my phosphate exports....to increase my exports, I decided to go with a reactor... as increasing the size of my refugium was not practical. I did this in January.... the algaes at first, stopped spreading and are now receeding. The reactor takes awhile to capture enough phosphate to affect the algaes....but, eventually, it will out compete the algaes. This doesn't mean that the tank will be algae free...just managed and not over running the tank. If you control what feeds the algaes, you control its population.
As for clean up crews.... If a snail eats the algae, all that he does is to take the phosphate out of the algae and poop it back into the water....that's just moving the phosphate around...not removing it. I have about 30 snails in my system and love that they take phosphate out of the algae and poop it back into the water... where my reactor (or skimmer,prefilter,...or my vacuum) has a chance to get a hold of it. And remember...I keep using the term "reactor"... because that's what I use...but, the export of macro in refugiums does the same thing...it's just a little slower depending on how big the refugium is compared to the size of the total system.
Oh, one more thing....no question is dumb.
 

bdhough

Active Member
ok. so far our scope has been on larger systems where a fuge can be set up. what about my tanks though? i've got a 12 and a 20 and there isn't much space for me to throw in a fuge just like that. i would take a large undertaking to plumb a fuge through my systems. so what would someone like me do?
 

mary

Member
Steveweast! Now I am scared to death. Just ordered new items to add more to my 100 gal.. Always have algea but not enough to worry about all these 8 years! Have only a skimmer, lots of live rock and live rock in the 27 gal sub tank. Many corals , fish, all of it! Now, to inform my husband that I really need this phosphate buster will cause bedlam! He now wishes I would have gone with the face lift. He suggested the marine tank. as he could not stomach my even thinking of going under the knife for "beauty's" sake. Now to tell him I really believe this is a very important item, I believe he will come after me with the knife. It's our money but the spending to his way of thinking never ends with this gorgeous tank. {When could this tank crash happen!? I have high levels of phosphates in my well water to start with.} Guess I could suggest that it is a cheap way of salvaging our "investment." Is the Phosban 150 a good size for a 100gal.?
Thank you for the info. I am very grateful. And Melody, thanks for your searches. It got me looking and pricing!
 

jess74

Member
Thanks! :D I'm really loving this thread, so much good info!! Especially since I had/have a phosphate problem. :nope: I'm working on it though! :yes:
 
S

shouse

Guest
I'm also looking at the phosban reactor 150, looks like it should workout pretty good. My question is what would be the best pump to go along with it? I do not have one so i want to purchase what would be most ideal for it. Melody was talking about using a maxijet, i thoguht that was a powerhead though? Can u hook up a powerhead to the phosban and use it like a pump? what might be my best bang for the buck be for pumps? how many gph on this pump should i get? thanks
 

steveweast

Member
Now, now, now...no need to panic. there are lots of ways to export nutrients...macro export through a refugium, reactors, skimming, physically removing detritus/poop... lots of ways....some people even replace liverock over time and treat liverock as if it were a nutrient sponge onto itself. You just have to be aware of the pitfalls of nutrient storage and how it occurs, and why, over the long term.... and employ some sort of nutrient export program (and as stated above, there are many to choose from).
Small tanks are the easiest to care for in terms of nutrient control. They are easier and more practical to keep the detritus/poop from building up. And remember, the old adage... "the solution to pollution is dilution" always holds true. Small tanks can be much easier to keep control of by doing more effective/frequent water changes than us folks with large tanks...along with it being easier to perform husbandry tasks.
Oh...and as NMreef and others have stated many times before...use RO water...no need to add unwanted things from the get go.
 

steveweast

Member
Shouse...I can't answer that since I don't use that reactor...but, I'm sure the manufacturer must give some sort of recommendation.
 

attml

Active Member
Steve,
It is pretty obvious that you have a big fan base here at swf.com. Being a member here for a while now I have seen you online on the board quite a bit and have always hoped that you would share more of your secrets, knowledge and succes stories with us! I am very glad that you have been posting here much more recently and I really hope that you continue to be as active!! I am really enjoying your threads and learning quite a bit! Thanks for taking the time to put together such well thought out answers and detailed, lenghty posts!
Mark
 

gregvabch

Active Member
DUDE, melody, you misunderstood me!! why i gotta be all that?!?
i just wanted you to know that i was trying to figure out what gph powerhead to use. since you had bought it already and you were wondering, i directed the first part of my post to you.
i know you weren't trying to plug that site or whatever and i wasn't holding anything against you at all.
i emailed some questions to that site about the reactor and some jackass emailed me back and said he didn't know anything about it and that i would basically be on my own if i bought it from them.
that has nothing to do with you, and i guess my post read like i was blaming that on you. guess i should have clarified a little.
it just seems like a lot of times companies sell products and then don't know anything about them when you need help. that pisses me off. i feel like if you're going to sell something to the public you should know the ins and outs of it before you sell it. that's not your fault and i wasn't trying to associate you with them at all.
hope there's no hard feelings!!! :D greg
 

jjboods

Member
Can someone(Steve) explain the mechanics of a phosphate reactor? The reason that I ask is that I have an old Fluval Canister filter and I was wondering if I could fill it with Phosphate Removal Media and achieve the same results as a reactor.
 

neoreef

Member

Originally posted by steveweast
After I switched to my new tank back in September, I was still having a pesky type of red macro/hair algae that kept cropping up. I knew that my phosphate inputs were exceeding my phosphate exports....to increase my exports, I decided to go with a reactor... as increasing the size of my refugium was not practical. I did this in January.... the algaes at first, stopped spreading and are now receeding.

Hi Steve,
Are these algaes like pink hair or fuzz? I have this too, and every time I pull some out, bits escape off and start new colonies. I do have a slight bit of phosphate I measured in my water, so I am going to try the ROWAphos. Thanks for a great thread.
Kathy
 

steveweast

Member
Canister filters do not work very well with the Rowaphos or Phosban type medias...the media will solidify inside the canister within a week or two (plus make a mess). Fluidized bed filters are very simple in design. They are basically a tube that has a sponge at the top and bottom....water comes in from the bottom through a diffussion plate...then through the first sponge...then through the media...then through the second sponge...and finally, leaves the unit. With the water coming from the bottom, the media is placed in constant motion (fluidized) to keep the media from clumping and to keep water in contact with all the particles...otherwise, the water would make channels through the media and not contact all the particles. There is also a ball valve on the water input side to control the flow. You have to match the water flow exactly to the amount of media....by increasing the flow until the media starts to fluidize..not too little or too much.
Kathy...that sounds exactly like the stuff that I had. It is easy to remove since it doesn't attach as steadfast as green hair algae...but, it is still a pain. It took a month or so running the reactor to finally put this stuff on the retreat....I figure that it will take another two or three months to eliminate it.
 

mary

Member
Please Steve, So, to purchase a pump to run this reactor, any suggestions what size, output? Referring to the PhosBan 150. My local fish store is not going to believe I even need all this. Wonderful to find out that everything in my tank stores phosphates.The corals look their best when I clean the glass. Am ordering another good book on this subject.t Will search the web.
 
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