phosphates levels

[ctgretzky9]

Cant seem to find a table for acceptable ranges for phosphate.
Bought a seatest kit yesterday and measured phosphates .08-1.0 mg/L in the tank, 0 po4 in my source water.
Any thoughts on if that is ok?
All other tests are pretty perfect except my calc is still a bit low at 380, but is up from a week or so ago when i started dosing b-ionic and that is getting under control slowly...ph and alk are fine.
Thanks!

 

[bang guy]

In my opinion PO4 should be undetectable. That's not as easy as it sounds so keeping it as low as possible is your best bet. Don't overfeed, use pureified water, a good skimmer, and some type of export mechanism.

 

[ctgretzky9]

Bang,
My source water is 0 po4. I did a water change this morning and will test again tonight (po4 test was last night toward end of evening)
I guess I can cut down feeding a bit more.
I do not want to use po4 lock or any of those other chemical products.
I dont have a skimmer so thats out with no chance of having one on this tank.
Do you feel my level is detrimental or if I can keep or lower it a bit it will be acceptable?
Thank you! Everything else you helped me with has come to fruition...alk and ph are perfect, calcium is slowly climbing and is now at 380 up from 2 weeks ago around 320.
Tank is looking healthier and healthier.

 

[stuckinfla]

What brand of sea salt? Did you try testing it after you mixed a batch?

 

[ctgretzky9]

Hey Stuck!!!
Hows the tank? And you know, next post you make is #1000! yaya!!!
lol...anyway, no, i didn't test the salt mix after, it is Instant ocean, and it says in bi bold letters NO PHOSPHATES....which I blindly accepted as fact.
It is a good point, and I will definately check that next wc...
LFS said to use a phosphate sponge for 24-48 hrs then do a water change of around 10-15% after. Check levels then repeat if nessecary. Any thoughts on that?

 

[bang guy]

The Iron based Phosphate Sponge is fine, do NOT use the Aluminum based version.
Phospahte at high levels will allow algae to grow rampant.
Phosphate at medium levels will inhibit Coral growth.
Phosphate at low levels (<0.03ppm) is best in my opinion.
Some feel that 0.00 PO4 is best but I have found it to inhibit Coralline and LPS growth.

 

[ctgretzky9]

Bang....thanks for the reply again
After discussion here, and on another board, and my lfs which has had advice similar to the better reefkeepers on this site like you-and unlike PLB who you may know? lol-
I decided to purchase (and did during lunch) kents phosphate sponge.
He suggested running it for 24 hrs. remove it, do a 10% wc to replace anything beneficial sponge may take out, test, keep feeding inhabitants to a minimum, then repeat if nessecary.
Seemed to make sense. The kents states it is a "ceramic medium" and also states "will not release soluble aluminum copounds into your tank...."
Sound like a plan?

 

[reefnut]

Originally Posted by ctgretzky9
My source water is 0 po4.
What is your source water?? Keep in mind that our current PO4 test kits will NOT detect organic phosphates, only inorganic phosphates. Here's a quote from a on-line magazine...
"Unfortunately for reef keepers, the world of organic phosphorus compounds is far more complex than inorganic phosphates. Many common biochemicals contain phosphate esters. Every living cell contains some. Molecules such as DNA, ATP, phospholipids (lecithin), and many proteins contain phosphate groups. In these molecules, the basic phosphate structure is covalently attached to the remainder of the organic molecule through one or more phosphate ester bonds to a carbon atom.
These bonds are stable for some period of time in water, but will eventually break down to release inorganic orthophosphate from the organic part of the molecule, a process that can be sped up through the action of enzymes in a reef tank. Many of these organic phosphate compounds will be readily removed from a tank by skimming. Export of organic phosphates is the major way that skimming can result in reduced inorganic orthophosphate levels in a tank. Orthophosphate ions themselves are not significantly removed via skimmate (since they do not adsorb onto an air/water interface), but organic phosphates can be removed before they are converted into inorganic orthophosphate."
Also, the PO4 removers have been found not to do a very good job at removing organic phosphates.
"An important point about organic phosphates is that they will mostly not be impacted by phosphate-binding materials sold to the aquarium hobby. Consequently, while these products may do a fine job of reducing inorganic orthophosphate, they may not help an algae problem that is caused primarily by organic phosphates.
A final point is that organic phosphates will not be detected by most test kits. Those that do detect organic phosphates (e.g., Hach PO-24) break the phosphate off of the organic compound and thereby convert it into inorganic orthophosphate prior to testing. However, these kits are tedious and expensive, and not for every hobbyist.
So I guess my point is... make sure you are using purified water... and if all possible get a skimmer

 

[ctgretzky9]

Reef,
Thanks!
Awesome post, though it took me 3 reads to understand it lol
The water i use for my tank is originally from a well. It is run through a 1 micron floss and carbon home system, through a water softener, then through a countertop unit: cyclonic ozone, High intensity UV light, .05 micron solid carbon filter, then through another UV zone.
From what I remember, and I will try and find the stat sheet on the system, it was supposed to remove organics-it was basically made for well water.
Does this help any? If not, what can be done to test for organic phosphates?
Thank you!
edit ps....i know i know about the skimmer!!! lol...i simply cannot fit one anywhere in my current space...thus the reason for a hex tank in the first place. Next tank i promise!!!!