phosphates ?

[jayinh]

ok heres the run down... i bought a used tank over the winter and have been bringing back to where it should be with health and proper equipment. owners before me were in way over there heads. so i have phosphates in the tank, much lower now then when i got the tank but they are still here!i have tryed doing 50% water changes and lots of bags with kent phosphate sponge. i change the bag with new every 2 days max. my question is:is there any thing else i can do to lower them and what is a safe number( zero i know) i also have a fuge with cheato in it. i did swap the substrate out a month ago. please help.

 

[salt210]

if they are getting lower you are doing something right. is there livestock in the tank? what size tank? if there is livestock what do you feed? what kind of filtration besides the sponge?

 

[jayinh]

its a 90 now and was a 55 when i first go it. there are 2 clowns ,yellow tang,damsel,and a scooter blenny. misc crabs,2 frogspawns,zoas,3 dusters,star polyps. i have the 90 as the display and the 55 as the sump(110-120 gal total) fuge and a euro reef rs80 skimmer. you are right they are slowly coming down but is there anything more i can do? do you think it is in th LR so bad that it is slowly leaching out? i have about 60lb of rock

 

[bang guy]

Yes, it is possible that the rock has been mis-treated and is now leaching Phosphates. I don't think that's the major cause of your phosphates though because usually there will be an abundance of hair algae on the rock if it's leaching Phosphates.
Are you using RO/DI water?

 

[jayinh]

there is some hair algae, but not a lot. i do use ro water and premixed saltwater both from my LFS. and i feed frozen myis shrimp every 3 days.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by jayinh
http:///forum/post/2718042
there is some hair algae, but not a lot. i do use ro water and premixed saltwater both from my LFS. and i feed frozen myis shrimp every 3 days.

Have you tested the LFS water for Phosphate?
Is your tank above 1ppm Phosphate? Are you testing Organic Phosphate?

 

[jayinh]

i have not tested there water... maybe i should. my tanks teast at 0.1-0.2 P.P.M with the red sea test. is this an acceptable range?

 

[bang guy]

0.00 is better but I wouldn't panick about 0.1ppm.
I have good news and bad news, I give you the good news first.
0.1ppm Phosphate will slightly inhibit Coral Growth but it won't stop corals from growing. 0.2ppm will significantly inhibit coral growth but again, it won't kill the coral, they will just grow slowly. This is why I asked you about 1.0ppm, at this level some corals cannot grow at all. A coral that cannot grow is a dying coral.
0.1ppm phosphate will also allow hair algae to grow. Grazers can eat the algae but you want to make sure the algae doesnt take over. The good news about algae is that it quickly removes phosphate from the water column, good news for the corals at least.
The bad news is that your Red Sea test kit is only measuring inorganic phosphate. This is phosphate that has already been decayed by bacteria (or came from tap water). The actual total phosphate level may be much higher.
Make sure your skimmer is working at it's absolute best.
Rinse your fish food before feeding and absolutely under no circumstances should flaked fish food be used in a reef tank.
You mentioned you use RO water. Does this mean you don't have a DI stage? That wouldn't be a terrible thing but most RO membranes only remove about 70% or phosphate from tap water. Some locations have very high levels so it's worth testing your RO water for Phosphate as well as the water from your LFS.

 

[jayinh]

wow, thats good info bang guy. thanks, is there a test kit that you would recomend to me? i was using the hagen brand, or is that testing the same thing as the red sea ? i dont know if the LFS uses RO or RO/DI . i will check on this today. the skimmer is working great, but i just recently got this one, i was using one that was not so good.keep in mind that i am fairly new to this so if i sound like a noob well its cause i am, but i want to say thanks for responding.

 

[bang guy]

I prefer the Salifert kit but there's nothing wrong with using the kit you have. I just wanted you to be aware.
I forgot to mention that the cheap carbon pellets can leach phosphate as well.
If you beef up your algae scrubber (you mentioned Chaeto) perhaps with more light and/or more water flow you may be able to get your macro algae growing faster. This stuff really is an excellent phosphate sponge.
Keep in mind though that the phosphate isn't really removed from the system until the algae is actually physically removed from your water.
one other minor tidbit, chaetomorpha is pronounced K-Toe-Morfa

 

[jerthunter]

One thing that might help is adding Nitrate, depending on what the levels are. If you are doing major water changes you're probably taking out a bunch of nitrate which would inhibit the growth of your macro algae. Of course if you have detectable nitrates then this idea wouldn't help.

 

[florida joe]

To add to the already great advice you are getting I would like to add my two cents. Remember RO units remove about 90 to 95% of pollutants from the source water. If the source water had a high phosphate level the 10% concentration remaining in the water you are getting from your LFS could be significant.
As my good friend Bang said, it is important to know what you are testing for. Most test kits test only inorganic phosphates (orthophosphate) and ignore organic phosphate. In addition algae and the symbiotic bacteria that live on their surface can secrete phosphatase enzymes that liberate usable orthophosphates from organically bound phosphate.
Release of phosphates by denitrifies.
Barak (2004) investigated the link between the phosphorus cycle and the nitrogen cycle. Phosphorus is commonly bound with organic matter in sediments. Under anoxic conditions bacteria that reduce sulfate to sulfide, and nitrite to nitrate and nitrogen gas can liberate soluble orthophosphate from organic matter and release it into the water. This is especially prevalent in aquariums with high organic load in the substratum (large detritus build up.) so your source water may in fact be free of phosphates but the nitrogen cycle could be adding phosphates to your water.

 

[jayinh]

the nitrates have always been either low or zero, thanks for the good info .

 

[florida joe]

I love a thread my good friend Bang gets involved in, it gets my research addiction going (yes I lead a dull life). The results of data from approximately 1000 reefs suggest the min PO4 (phosphate) is MIN 0.00 MAX 3034. Average 0.25 PPM.
BTW what’s the rake on that baby about 33 degrees

 

[stanlalee]

your really trying to reach for 0.05 or lower. make sure the phophate sponge or media is somewhere water has to go thru it. BTW if your phospates are 0.1-0.2 there is no reason for you to be changing them out every 2 days. I'm not sure what the kent media is but there are only two that work well aluminum oxide and ferrous (iron) oxide. if its white its aluminum, brown is iron. either way if you have to let the testing dictate when to take them out. as long as they continue to go down leave it in. once you get to under 0.05 change them if and when they get to 0.05 or just before. if you have to change it every 2 days at that level its time to change brands (preferably to an iron based sponge).

 

[bang guy]

Good post, good tips.
Personally I don't know which is worse, Aluminum oxide or Phosphate for a reef (use the Ferrous oxide).

 

[spanko]

Quote acceptable levels for marine aquariums:
Phosphate (PO4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/L
The use of a phosphate absorbing resin is recommended to keep phosphate
levels below 0.05 mg/L.

 

[chroniccoral35]

Flakes are bad to add to reef tanks?

 

[jayinh]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2718554
I love a thread my good friend Bang gets involved in, it gets my research addiction going (yes I lead a dull life). The results of data from approximately 1000 reefs suggest the min PO4 (phosphate) is MIN 0.00 MAX 3034. Average 0.25 PPM.
BTW what’s the rake on that baby about 33 degrees
42 deg. rake 111c.i. s&s ....yeah shes quik!

 

[tdog7879]

so is 0.5 tested on a seachem test bad for a reef tank? What type of phosphate remover do you guys think is the best to use?