Pickling lime

6stokes

6stokes

Member
Okay, out of curiosity I called Mrs. Wages and asked for a chemical composition since it is considered "food grade." Kalkwasser is considered "lab grade." I wanted to know how much different they were. Well I don't have the Kent information yet, but here's a shocker on the Mrs. Wages.
1 PPM of Arsenic
40 PPM of fluoride
1.5 ppm of lead
15-20 ppm of heavy metals including lead.
And of course all the other stuff that's probably okay.
Well, can someone tell me if they have been using Mrs. Wages for a long time with no ill effects? I just recieved three 16 once containers and now I'm afraid to try it. Maybe this is normal, I don't know.
:help:
 
solonfairy

solonfairy

Member
This is all fine in a conventional kalk drip because these metals settle to the bottom below the drip line and are disposed of.
You wouldnt want to use wages in a kalkwasser reactor because there is no settled powder that is dumped. It all goes into the tank.
 
6stokes

6stokes

Member
Thanks a lot. I don't use a kalk reactor, but I also don't really do a drip either. I use the mix as top up water, which amounts to about 1 1/2 to 2 gal a day. I mix the kalk in vinegar and then dilute in RO/DI. After settlement, which isn't much because of the vinegar, I siphon the good water to my top up tank. I've been doing it like this for almost a month now. PH remains stable because the vinegar lowers the PH of the kalk.
Do you think it would be wise to add some water conditioner w/slime coat directly to the tank once in a while just in case some of the metals are getting by? If so, how much and how often?
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
You might want to consider adding the vinegar after you siphon off the limewater. Vinegar will prevent some heavy metals from precipitating out of solution and you could end up dosing them with the limewater.
 
6stokes

6stokes

Member
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the vinegar? The water that's siphoned off has already reacted with all of the available carbon dioxide. Can there be further reaction? Also, when not using the vinegar there is a lot of settlement because there is usually more kalk than available carbon dioxide. When I mix in vinegar first, I have almost no settlement (very little). This method allows more calcuim in the water I think.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Yes, it allows for more Calcium and hydroxide in the water. It has nothing to do with CO2 at that stage of the process. In addition to more Calcium you might also have more Iron, Copper, and Arsenic. You do not want CO2 present when you're mixing or storing your limewater. That's why you don't stir it vigerously, to keep the CO2 out of the water.
Vinegar is still very useful if you add it to the seperated limewater. Acetic acid will provide CO2 to your aquarium at the same time you are dripping the limewater. This prevents a local deficit of CO2 where the drops are going in and allows more of the Calcium and Bicarbonate to stay in solution.
If you're using lab grade Calcium hydroxide your proceedure looks fine to me but for the lower grades I would suggest not adding vinegar to the lime before mixing with water.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Just one more tidbit :)
It's the high PH of limewater that causes the metals to precipitate. If you lower that PH using Acetic Acid then fewer metals will be forced out of solution. If you mix the lime and let it settle then all of the metals will be gone as you siphon out the clear liquid. At that point you can add your Vinegar safely.
Also avoid using the thin Calcium carbonate crust that forms on the surface of the freshly mixed limewater.
 
6stokes

6stokes

Member
Bang, if I add Vinegar after the mixing and siphoning, is it at the same rate? I'm using 60 ml per gallon. Supposed to be the stoichiometric amount for carbonate. This link http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/b...alkwasser.html claims that 120 mil per gallon is the stoichiometric amount for bicarbonate. The link also seems to contradict what you are saying unless I still don't understand. I do understand the metals not precipatating out though.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
I didn't see anything in the article that conflicts with what I said. The difference as I see it is lab grade vs food grade (I use agricultural grade). I don't see a problem mixing the vinegar with lab grade. It's the lower grades that could cause problems.
Can you point out the inconsistancy and perhaps I can try to explain it better, or perhaps I'm the one with a misunderstanding.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Ahhh I think I see the part where they're discussing CO2 in the mixing. We definately disagree there.
I believe that the vinegar just forms acetate.
ie. Calcium hydroxide mixed in water forms Calcium + Hydroxide
Mixing vinegar & Calcium hydroxide forms Calcium + Acetate + water.
I believe they are mistaken when discussing CO2 in the limewater. The CO2 isn't created until bacteria eat the Acetate to form CO2 + Hydroxide which then forms bicarbonate. This all takes place in the display tank, not in the mixing vat.
 
6stokes

6stokes

Member
Okay, I'll stick to lab grade until we hear from a chemist. Not that I'm doubting you Bang, you're definitely a lot smarter than me on the subject.
 
tony detroit

tony detroit

Active Member

Originally posted by Bang Guy
:eek:
Ohhh noooo... that bites :mad:
What happened?
A little problem......was just getting sweet growth rate from the kalk too. New tank shipping out on the 3rd.
Minor Problem
 
6stokes

6stokes

Member
Okay Bang Guy, I'm going with your method. It seems to me though that since I will be mixing the vinegar after siphoning off the clear water I wouldn't need as much as the method I was doing before. How much vinegar (max) do you recommend per gallon?
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Depends :D
If you believe your tank is deficient in CO2 then start with 10ml/Gallon and keep increasing up to 50ml/gallon if need be.
If your PH climbs when you add limewater then you're deficient in CO2.
 
6stokes

6stokes

Member
Thank you Bang! Little, take a look at dripping Kalkwasser 101 just a few posts beneath this one. It will tell you everything you need to know. But basically it's the addition of calcium.
 
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