Pics of my new buddies...
- Thread starter hocky98
- Start date
harlequin
Member
Most of those fish, especially the volitans will probably outgrow that tank, some quicker than others. As far as a skimmer goes try the best you can get. My vote is for a euro-reef or its clone the SeaBay rated for at least a 150 gallon. Pred tanks need bigger skimmers than similarly sized reef tanks.
moraym
Active Member
Originally posted by fishnerd
I don't understand what Moraym is saying.
A wet dry w/bioballs along with dual biowheels is PLENTY of biological filtration. I would however, add a good skimmer.
I dont have time to go into the specifics of it, but bioballs and dual biowheels is not sufficient filtration. Penguin biowheels are simply nitrate factories in the long term, and bioballs can be as well. Maintaining biological filtration longterm with bioballs requires maintenance as well to continue them being effective, and I doubt the necessary maintenance will be performed.
The bioload in this tank will be overly-stressed enough if it had adequate filtration. If you're saying a dual-biowheel and wet-dry (of unknown size), with no LR and no skimmer, is adequate filtration for a tank with an excessive bioload, then go for it, that's all I'll say.
moraym
Active Member
Originally posted by tvan
Live rock does very little for nitrates and can become just as clogged as bio balls and just as ineffective. Skimmer and a way to remove solid wastes before they degrade(filter felt).
You missed the point, or I wasnt clear in my post. I'm not saying LR removes nitrates, as they are the final stage in the breakdown of wastes and are not removable by LR. I was stating that penguin biowheels have the potential to become nitrate factories and produce additional nitrates. With LR it's a zero sum, but with some filters you actually add nitrates to the system.
The LR i suggested is for biological filtration in general, not aiming that comment at the nitrates. Rather saying LR is an effective mechanism for biological filtration without the risk of adding additional nitrates into the system. And additional general biological filtration is needed with that bioload based on current filtration setup.
Obviously a skimmer and filter sock on the wet-dry will go much farther than any of the above to aid in the denitrification process.
saltfisher
Member
Nice new looking tank...It'll get messy while the algae sets in.
squidd
Active Member
Originally posted by MorayM
... I was stating that penguin biowheels have the potential to become nitrate factories and produce additional nitrates. With LR it's a zero sum, but with some filters you actually add nitrates to the system.
:notsure: NO...no "additional" nitrates...:nope:
Rather saying LR is an effective mechanism for biological filtration without the risk of adding additional nitrates into the system.
:nope: ...no difference....NitrAtes are produced by "BACTERIA" not rocks..not Balls..not Wheels..
And additional general biological filtration is needed with that bioload based on current filtration setup....
This I can agree with...
Obviously a skimmer and filter sock on the wet-dry will go much farther than any of the above to aid in the denitrification process.
:nope: Skimmer and/or Sock have absoultly NO effect on "denitrification"....Totally different process...
I'm not saying LR removes nitrates, as they are the final stage in the breakdown of wastes and are not removable by LR.
Actually Live Rock "Can" aid in the removal of NitrAtes...:yes:
Sorry, but this is some really bad information...
squidd
Active Member
Having said that....
Hockey98...That really is a lot of fishin a small imature system...
3 months is cutting it short for your system to develope adaquate biological populations to support this number of "messy" eaters...
I would watch you levels closely...and be ready to take apropriate action...
They may be "small" now but will grow, probably quicker than your anticipating...
You said a larger tank is in the future...I'm hoping it's the "near" future...as in..your working on setting it up NOW...
Because it won't be long at all and you'll be needing it...
Hockey98...That really is a lot of fishin a small imature system...
3 months is cutting it short for your system to develope adaquate biological populations to support this number of "messy" eaters...
I would watch you levels closely...and be ready to take apropriate action...
They may be "small" now but will grow, probably quicker than your anticipating...
You said a larger tank is in the future...I'm hoping it's the "near" future...as in..your working on setting it up NOW...
Because it won't be long at all and you'll be needing it...
moraym
Active Member
Originally posted by Squidd
no difference....NitrAtes are produced by "BACTERIA" not rocks..not Balls..not Wheels..
And where do you suppose bacteria grows? Directly and sometimes indirectly, bacteria levels are impacted by all three things you just said do not produce bacteria. There is obviously beneficial and harmful bacteria in a tank. Penguin wheels harbor both kinds, but will slowly become less beneficial over time. I'd done tons of research with Penguin wheels considering I used to run them on my tanks. Bacteria grows on the bioballs and on the biowheels, that is one of the purposes of these devices. However with certain devices you get a different ratio of beneficial/harmful bacteria. Over the long term, the Penguin wheels have a less-than-desireable ratio of harmful bacteria to beneficial bacterias. I'd love to get into the details of it, but what's the point, it'd just be more "really bad information", as I must've forgotten that only beneficial bacteria grows on these magical wheels and balls.
Originally posted by Squidd
Skimmer and/or Sock have absoultly NO effect on "denitrification"....Totally different process...[/
I'm referring the the denitrification of the water column, actually reducing nitrates in the water by removing larger waste products (if maintained properly), not the actual denitrification process of the sandbed and the breaking down and removal of certain elements of waste. If I got into the denitrification of the sand bed, it would just confuse the hell out of hocky98, and it's doubtful he'd listen anyways.
Originally posted by Squidd
Actually Live Rock "Can" aid in the removal of NitrAtes...
You should really read this post for detail before claiming bad information. This is in reference to a post regarding the elimination of nitrates. And LR will not remove nitrates completely from a system (read: eliminate).
But hell, what's the point, I'm full of "really bad information". Not that people ever listen to those self-proclaimed Gods of good information. He'll do what he wants, and at this point, I don't really care what happens to his tank.
no difference....NitrAtes are produced by "BACTERIA" not rocks..not Balls..not Wheels..
And where do you suppose bacteria grows? Directly and sometimes indirectly, bacteria levels are impacted by all three things you just said do not produce bacteria. There is obviously beneficial and harmful bacteria in a tank. Penguin wheels harbor both kinds, but will slowly become less beneficial over time. I'd done tons of research with Penguin wheels considering I used to run them on my tanks. Bacteria grows on the bioballs and on the biowheels, that is one of the purposes of these devices. However with certain devices you get a different ratio of beneficial/harmful bacteria. Over the long term, the Penguin wheels have a less-than-desireable ratio of harmful bacteria to beneficial bacterias. I'd love to get into the details of it, but what's the point, it'd just be more "really bad information", as I must've forgotten that only beneficial bacteria grows on these magical wheels and balls.
Originally posted by Squidd
Skimmer and/or Sock have absoultly NO effect on "denitrification"....Totally different process...[/
I'm referring the the denitrification of the water column, actually reducing nitrates in the water by removing larger waste products (if maintained properly), not the actual denitrification process of the sandbed and the breaking down and removal of certain elements of waste. If I got into the denitrification of the sand bed, it would just confuse the hell out of hocky98, and it's doubtful he'd listen anyways.
Originally posted by Squidd
Actually Live Rock "Can" aid in the removal of NitrAtes...
You should really read this post for detail before claiming bad information. This is in reference to a post regarding the elimination of nitrates. And LR will not remove nitrates completely from a system (read: eliminate).
But hell, what's the point, I'm full of "really bad information". Not that people ever listen to those self-proclaimed Gods of good information. He'll do what he wants, and at this point, I don't really care what happens to his tank.
squidd
Active Member
I'd be interested in hearing your "findings" on harmful bacteria ratios..their type and what that has to do with producing nitrAtes??
"De-nitrification" and keeping nitrates from being produced are two different things...
I'm not saying LR removes nitrates, as they are the final stage in the breakdown of wastes and are not removable by LR.
So what "are" you saying??
"De-nitrification" and keeping nitrates from being produced are two different things...
I'm not saying LR removes nitrates, as they are the final stage in the breakdown of wastes and are not removable by LR.
So what "are" you saying??
moraym
Active Member
Just as I'd be interested in your "findings" on biowheels.
I guess your :nope: smilies are the closest thing to "findings" or whatever the hell you're looking for. That or the logic that nitrates are from bacteria, yet all bacteria is beneficial. I'd be curious as to your findings regarding wet-drys w/ bioballs and biowheels by themselves, and whether or not that also creates additional algae blooms. Fact is, that bioballs and biowheels may serve a function in some systems, but when that's all there is, for a bioload of this magnitude as the fish grow, it is neither effective nor adequate. And will quickly be overworked, leading to too much bacteria on the surfaces, essentially creating additional algae blooms and further adding to the nitrate levels in the common marine tank.
Originally posted by Squidd
So what "are" you saying??
Wow. Considering I just answered that in the last post.
I guess your :nope: smilies are the closest thing to "findings" or whatever the hell you're looking for. That or the logic that nitrates are from bacteria, yet all bacteria is beneficial. I'd be curious as to your findings regarding wet-drys w/ bioballs and biowheels by themselves, and whether or not that also creates additional algae blooms. Fact is, that bioballs and biowheels may serve a function in some systems, but when that's all there is, for a bioload of this magnitude as the fish grow, it is neither effective nor adequate. And will quickly be overworked, leading to too much bacteria on the surfaces, essentially creating additional algae blooms and further adding to the nitrate levels in the common marine tank.
Originally posted by Squidd
So what "are" you saying??
Wow. Considering I just answered that in the last post.
sharksbait
Member
Funny,never once did I here anyone talk about water changes.Water changes are one of the most important steps for a healthy tank.Just make sure to do bi-monthly water changes and get a good skimmer.
tony detroit
Active Member
For everybody that wants to skip the drama:
Getting Rid of Nitrates
Eliminate sources
Don't overstock, don't overfeed, rinse your food
Filter Properly
Run lots of random waterflow, MINIMUM 10X. 20X or more is better
Changer your water weekly if you can. Monthly at a minimum. Clean areas where detritus settles out.
Put a oversize skimmer on your tank. Look into more advanced methods if problems still persist.
IMO/IME A wet dry with bioballs is a great way to run and support a aggressive tank with large fish.
Getting Rid of Nitrates
Eliminate sources
Don't overstock, don't overfeed, rinse your food
Filter Properly
Run lots of random waterflow, MINIMUM 10X. 20X or more is better
Changer your water weekly if you can. Monthly at a minimum. Clean areas where detritus settles out.
Put a oversize skimmer on your tank. Look into more advanced methods if problems still persist.
IMO/IME A wet dry with bioballs is a great way to run and support a aggressive tank with large fish.
tony detroit
Active Member
Run carbon and filterpads/socks and change them out weekly as well.
tony detroit
Active Member
Originally posted by MorayM
RO/DI water is especially helpful in reducing nitrifying bacteria, nitrobacters.
Are you saying that using RO/DI water will reduce the effectiveness and/or numbers of the nitrifying bacteria that reside in the tank?