pics of plumbing anyone?

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eric b 125

Guest
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/2953059
What is the plan for the exterior, What style of drains are you doing?
the exterior of the tank? um, im not sure how to answer this. im going to drill the overflow from glassholes in the center of the tank, with the return bulkheads at each end of the tank. is there any kind of hardware i could buy that i put over the return bulkheads that use nozzles to direct the flow of water?
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
I can only think of loc line that would go directly into the bulk heads.
The exterior of the tank, I was asking if there would be 2" tee fittings on the outside of the tank. Like a durso or a stockman stand pipe.
 
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eric b 125

Guest
i was going to ask about that. doesn't it cut down on noise? on one of the standpipes there would have to be a rubber tube, right? i got an e-mail from the place i'm ordering the overflow from:
Thanks for visiting. The 1500 should be plumbed using two separate 1.5 inch
drains. In some unusual circumstances, it can be wyed into a single 2 inch,
but this is not recommended. Both of the drains are working equally. We
recreate the function of a durso in a much smaller package with our patented
baffle system.
Let us know if you have any other questions.
Thanks
i dont know if this helps at all. also, i was looking around at piping and i saw curved pvc. should i go with the curved pvc, rather than using 90's underneath my tank for my return plumbing. i thought i'd ask b/c to me it seems like it would cut down on pressure to the pump. i wish i could draw it, but i'm not that good w/ paint.
i want to run the plumbing straight up from the pump, once it is high enough to clear the drain plumbing but not hit the bottom of the tank i'm putting a tee, straight towards the sides from the tee, then one curve towards the back, one curve and a straight up the back of the tank, then the 90 to the bulk head. using the curves takes out 2 90's. or is it really not that big of a deal? i figured out how to run the plumbing, i'm just unsure of what hardware to use.
 
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eric b 125

Guest
i guess what my questions really boil down to: would 3x90's on each drain (including the 90's from the bulkheads) be too much flow restriction? and would 3x90's on each side (including the 90's from the bulkheads) plus the T be too much resistance for a mag 12 pump? i could go to a bigger return pump, but resistance is resistance.
 
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eric b 125

Guest
yeah, that's what i'm talking about! that return plumbing is exactly what i have in mind! glad to see that. do you have good output? what pump are you using. YES! I'M PUMPED!
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
I would plumb the return with as little or as few 90's as I could. Two 45's is better than one 90. I also would up the return line size. What I mean is to adapt the pump return to something like 1 1/2" and then reduce it as close to the end (top of the tank) as possible, at the very end where the loc line goes in is best but not always feasible. You will get more out of the return that way.
I am not sure why you would need flex hose anywhere unless there was a fear of vibration noise.
The T fittings and the 90's on the drain won't be seen by the pump so that won't be any resistance on the pump. It would reduce the amount that can go through the drains quietly. It is alway better to go bigger than the bulk head on the drains. If you are using 1 1/2" bulk heads then I would use 2" plumbing out side of the tank.
As stated in the mail reply, I would not run the two drains into one. especially two 1.5's into a single 2".
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
Mag 12
These are the numbers I used to calculate the return rate,
Vertical height

[hr]
5'
Horizontal run

[hr]
4'
Pipe Diameter

[hr]
1 1/2"
# of 90's

[hr]
4
# of ball valves

[hr]
1
# of unions

[hr]
1
# of exits

[hr]
2
# of pipe entrances----1
GPH for the return = 981 GPH
Now keeping every thing the same except the return pipe diameter you get
for 1" = 809 GPH
for 3/4" = 611 GPH
Also I have no real idea how it will be in the end or some of your actual numbers but, this is an idea for you.
 
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eric b 125

Guest
is there some kind of head-loss calculator somewhere that i could play with some numbers? i'm going to see if i can pull off a few pvc curves in place of 2x90's on each side of the T. it all depends on how long and what diameter curve they are. I'd like to get 10X turnover through my sump, that's the 'magic number' so to speak, isn't it?
 
valgae

valgae

Member
did u check out the link i posted for you? put that directly off your pump w/ spa flex and you wont need any 90's greatly reducing resistance.
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/2955506
I would plumb the return with as little or as few 90's as I could. Two 45's is better than one 90. I also would up the return line size. What I mean is to adapt the pump return to something like 1 1/2" and then reduce it as close to the end (top of the tank) as possible, at the very end where the loc line goes in is best but not always feasible. You will get more out of the return that way.
I am not sure why you would need flex hose anywhere unless there was a fear of vibration noise.
The T fittings and the 90's on the drain won't be seen by the pump so that won't be any resistance on the pump. It would reduce the amount that can go through the drains quietly. It is alway better to go bigger than the bulk head on the drains. If you are using 1 1/2" bulk heads then I would use 2" plumbing out side of the tank.
As stated in the mail reply, I would not run the two drains into one. especially two 1.5's into a single 2".
Could you please explain a bit in more detail?
As far as I know 2@45 is the same as a 90 in headloss.
Also why run larger drains then the bulkheads? If you have less than 1200 gph 2@1" will handle that. Isn't flow rate based on the smallest diameter of each run?
I guess if you run oversized pipes you wouldn't need to combine drains and then split again. I just think it gives you far more flexibility and will not affect anything at the OF in the tank.
But Posiden I'm not familiar with that drain config you have. Is that Beans? I need to read!
Tim
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
Originally Posted by TurningTim
http:///forum/post/2956125
Could you please explain a bit in more detail?
As far as I know 2@45 is the same as a 90 in headloss.
Also why run larger drains then the bulkheads? If you have less than 1200 gph 2@1" will handle that. Isn't flow rate based on the smallest diameter of each run?
I guess if you run oversized pipes you wouldn't need to combine drains and then split again. I just think it gives you far more flexibility and will not affect anything at the OF in the tank.
But Posiden I'm not familiar with that drain config you have. Is that Beans? I need to read!
Tim

You got it, it is a version of Beans. Bean is running around 1500 GPH through 1" bulk heads and at a dead silence.

If you go with larger diameter plumbing than the bulk heads you will have more surface area for the water. In order to run silently the water has to coat the inside of the plumbing with out closing off or trapping air in the stream. So the bigger you go the less chance you have of noise. I found this out when I built my CC skimmer. The drain was a nice and straight shot and it was quite. Then I changed a couple things around and got a nasty noise from it. After looking into the drain I saw the water coating or running down the sides of the pipe. The noise was coming from the 90 I had just installed.
You are right two 45's get you the same place as a 90 but, the two 45's give a much more gentle curve creating less turbulence in the flow.
 
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eric b 125

Guest
VAL: i did check out that website and the flex pvc is looking like it would make this much easier. how flexible is it? i think i'm going to use it instead of 2x90's on each side after the 'T' split from the return pump. that way the only 90's are the 'T' and the 90's going into the bulkhead. i'm assuming the spa-flex will vibrate, does it cause a lot of noise? i'm not sure yet whether i'm going to dampen my cabinet to cut down on noise. i guess i will, as long as everything will be broken down. does anyone have any suggestions on materials used to sound-proof the cabinet? i use dynamat in my car, but it's real expensive, and i'm not so sure how water-proof it is. plus it can be bulky. thanks so much for your help guys.
eric b
 
valgae

valgae

Member
flex is pretty rigid. mine doesn't vibrate at all. i used the manifold and spa flex w/ oneway valves and have no 90's or 45's except for the return input. i will try to get a pic but my tank is an hour away at my moms house. i have a pic before i switched everything. the returns are the middle pipes. off the pump is the double manifold going straight up. my paint skills aren't that great so don't hate. lol
 
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eric b 125

Guest
Posiden: so you suggest that i use larger plumbing on my drain than 1.5"? if the bulkheads are 1.5", that's all the water that will be allowed into the plumbing, so if i use 2" piping, then that will allow for air to be in the drains, yes? having air in the drains is what keeps them quiet, eh?
you will all have to forgive me for my lack of technical lingo. i can see how my explaination of things might be a bit confusing, and i understand my questions are elementary. this is my first sump and therefore first plumbing experience. i just want to make sure i'm planning this out correctly and it's important to me to know WHY i'm supposed to be doing certain things. i most certainly appreciate everyones continuing help and patience.
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/2956340
You got it, it is a version of Beans. Bean is running around 1500 GPH through 1" bulk heads and at a dead silence.

If you go with larger diameter plumbing than the bulk heads you will have more surface area for the water. In order to run silently the water has to coat the inside of the plumbing with out closing off or trapping air in the stream. So the bigger you go the less chance you have of noise. I found this out when I built my CC skimmer. The drain was a nice and straight shot and it was quite. Then I changed a couple things around and got a nasty noise from it. After looking into the drain I saw the water coating or running down the sides of the pipe. The noise was coming from the 90 I had just installed.
You are right two 45's get you the same place as a 90 but, the two 45's give a much more gentle curve creating less turbulence in the flow.
OK so (from your pic) you have a straight siphon, a durso and a back up over flow type drains? Then you are returning from the OF box? Yes?
 
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