florida joe
Well-Known Member
Exactly and also but very very very rarely by secondary infection. SOOOO. Ick DOES NOT kill by disease. what kills is a closed system. Therefore there can be no ability to fight off ick with some acquired antibodies
Possible ich ???
- Thread starter one-fish
- Start date
lmforbis
Well-Known Member
The body has immune responses to many things not just diseases. Yes you get a virus or a vaccine you developed antibodies to that disease but the body will also form antibodies to things the immune system sees as foreign. It could be a parasite, it could be a foreign protein that gets transferred by the parasite, or anything else the body sees as foreign.. In my line of work we depend on that immune response to make antibodies which we purify and use to make blood tests for thousands of biomarkers.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Seems like it’s time for entertainment my friend so let the games begin. First we are of course talking about a closed system. Are we talking about slime coat as a natural defense? If so of course it plays a role in defense. That as you know is why some fish are more susceptible to the parasite the others. But I believe the assertion was made that a fish can build up antibodies to protect itself against ick. Do you believe that? Ick has been a huge problem with us since wholesalers have been keeping fish in closed systems. Now if as was stated that fish can build up these antibodies against ick where are these fish in the hobby today. Certainly there would be a tremendous calling for an ick resistant fish. Would not specialty breeders not be at the forefront of this technology? Would not the same people that give us designer clown fish not be making money hand over fist with snowflake ick resistant fish? Sorry my friend until someone can show me data that fish can build up immunity to the parasite via antibodies produced by constant infection of the parasite I just don’t believe it.
In the open ocean there is no need for a fish to genetically evolve a defense system against ick the open ocean itself is a perfect defense.
Just got off the phone
Having placed a call to my friends at Mote marine, I will share what I was told. The fish’s mucous coating can provide some protection from the parasite. The mucous coating is where some fish immunity develops. BUT no fish in a closed system or even in the open ocean has a defense that will 100% stop an ick parasite from attaching it.
There is however a chance that a fish may have proteins develop in its slime coat after being infected and surviving and this MAY help fight off the parasite but it is relegated to that one fish AND the power to fight off ick with this new slime coat weakens and is lost without constant exposure to the parasite.
There is in fact works going on for an actual immunization for closed system fish. At this time it is so cost prohibited that we may never see it come to fruition. They think that even if it was available it would have to be administered multiple times a year to all the fish involved in the tank
Imforbis states “ A fresh water fish as well as its ancestors will never have been exposed to saltwater parisites or pathogens. As a result they won't have the same ability to fight off that infection as a salt water fish.” Is simply not true fresh water fish as well as saltwater fish having a slime coat? IMO a slime coat is a slime coat no matter if it’s a freshwater fish or saltwater fish
In the open ocean there is no need for a fish to genetically evolve a defense system against ick the open ocean itself is a perfect defense.
Just got off the phone
Having placed a call to my friends at Mote marine, I will share what I was told. The fish’s mucous coating can provide some protection from the parasite. The mucous coating is where some fish immunity develops. BUT no fish in a closed system or even in the open ocean has a defense that will 100% stop an ick parasite from attaching it.
There is however a chance that a fish may have proteins develop in its slime coat after being infected and surviving and this MAY help fight off the parasite but it is relegated to that one fish AND the power to fight off ick with this new slime coat weakens and is lost without constant exposure to the parasite.
There is in fact works going on for an actual immunization for closed system fish. At this time it is so cost prohibited that we may never see it come to fruition. They think that even if it was available it would have to be administered multiple times a year to all the fish involved in the tank
Imforbis states “ A fresh water fish as well as its ancestors will never have been exposed to saltwater parisites or pathogens. As a result they won't have the same ability to fight off that infection as a salt water fish.” Is simply not true fresh water fish as well as saltwater fish having a slime coat? IMO a slime coat is a slime coat no matter if it’s a freshwater fish or saltwater fish
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one-fish
Active Member
So in a closed system as we have in our tanks. How is the parasite introduced is it fish only (host) or can that parasite be present in a dormant stage in/on LR/Inverts. Reading say that the parasite has 4 stages in its life cycle the 1st stage is where the symptoms are visible (white spots) and then drops off and lives in substrate then free swimming to locate another host. In the 4th stage it starts to repeat itself. So if I got this right it is possible to introduce ich thru LR and/or LS. I don't plan on adding ANYTHING for a month to be safe even though I think the spot I saw was not ich, but have been wrong many times before. Guess the buzz word for today is QT. Thx again..........always learning
florida joe
Well-Known Member
ick can be transmitted to your tank via an infected fish or any saltwater that has the parasite in any of its life cycles
florida joe
Well-Known Member
My friend i may have not stated my meaning appropriately. what i meant was no matter if you are freshwater or saltwater. a slime coat will afford you some sort of protection.
I think as to which has more slime coat salt or fresh it probably is a fish to fish situation. The dragonet is a slow moving fish without scales and that is probably why it has developed a thick, poisonous slime coat that protects it from most reef predators. it most likely could be said for certain fresh water fish
I think as to which has more slime coat salt or fresh it probably is a fish to fish situation. The dragonet is a slow moving fish without scales and that is probably why it has developed a thick, poisonous slime coat that protects it from most reef predators. it most likely could be said for certain fresh water fish
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