Pros and Cons of a sump setup? What should I look out for?

[bluedolphi]

I am very close to purchasing a sump set up for my tank. 120 gallon 60x18x26.
I want to know the horror stories or what to look out for. I am a newbie, and just want to know what to expect, and what to be careful of having a sump set up.
Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[mburnickas]

Here is some info on my page.
http://home.comcast.net/~sump/sump1.htm

 

[beaslbob]

floods!!!!!

 

[pacopetty]

Mburnickas
What type of blade did you use to cut the acrylic?
I am using 1/4" acrylic from Home Depot

 

[bluedolphi]

Hmm..... thank you mburnickas!
I guess I need to figure out what flow rate I can go with.
I am looking at purchasing a 30x12x16 size sump. This will be it looks like 2" taller than the sump that mburnickas
went with.
The sump I am looking at buying comes in a pre performance tested kit. The seller has a retail store, and has all the items sized properly. However, I was thinking of going with a higher rated gallon per hour pump.
It looks like I need to be careful to some degree the gallons per hour that the return pump will put out. It looks like I have to be sure the overflow can handle the higher flow rate (if I upgrade to a higher gal per hour pump).
Here is a link to the sump I am looking at getting.
Sump/pump/filter/overflow set up
I am still wanting to know the downside to using a sump. If there is one. I think as long as the sump is sized properly as well as the pump and overflow, that you are pretty safe, unless someone knocks something out of position (not likely).
Hope to hear back with more horror stories, or pluses for using a sump.
Are they harder to maintain? A pain in the arss? Etc..
Thanks again!

 

[beaslbob]

I guess one word was not enough
Basically you are setting up a new device. As with any mechanical device it is subject to faliures. And of course it will require maintenance. Just can't get away from it.
overflows can plug. Plumbing can leak. pumps can fail. Power outages can create floods. You have to test test and then test some more. Make sure there are no floods when the power goes out. And that normal operation resumes when the power comes back on. Look into float switches and relays to control the pump in the event of a plugged overflow or failed syphon. The sump will create more possibilities of failures and problems.
On the good side it can be a central out of sight place for all the ugly filtering stuff. And that can be easier to maintain.
But as I said floods

 

[bluedolphi]

Yes, all equipment requires maintenance. I just wondered if the sump required more than say a canister.
It sounds like a canister is safer.... better? Safer/easier translates to better to me.
The link above is for a pre tested kit. I assume that the overflow capacity and pump rate, etc., are safe. But if anyone can look at that kit and give me their thoughts. I would appreciate it.
I will defenitely consider float shutoffs for the return pump.
I believe the sump set up above has a capacity that will assure that when the system shuts off.... the sump will hold the volume.

 

[beaslbob]

A canister will be safer because it is a sealed unit. There is also less filtering capability and no room for regfugiums.
The above link (on my short review) is a fairly standard sump/refug. The problems I mentioned had very little to do with the actual box for the sump refug. For instance, the return pipes to the display can form a back syphon when the pump loses power. The water can then run "backwards" into the sump box causing a flood. So you need to make sure that back syphon is broken during power out conditions. A simple small hole pointing downward and above the water line in the return lines will prevent that. Just something I had not considered when I first setup my sump/refug.
Since setting up the external sump/refug, my evaporation has gone from 1/2 g/week to 1/2-1g per day. So now I have to worry about the water level lowering do to evaporation when I go on vacation even for just a few days. Obviously a automated water top off system would help and add additional complexity and failure possibilities.
But even with all those concerns, I would do it again. After all my calcium has risen to around 400ppm from 250-300ppm. And i now have some ghost shrimp i am trying to culture in the refug.

 

[mburnickas]

pacopetty-- I used a standard blade that contained like 60 to 70 teeth.
BlueDolphi---I just bought a little giant pump that does like 1100 gph at 3 feet. It should be OVER kill for my tank so that is why I put a "Y" in after the pump to control the flow in return line.
So some will go to tank and some BACK to fuge. If the pump is too much (drains fuge to fast) I open the return to fuge valve on line. If it is not enough to tank. I close ball valve on the "return to fuge line". This will keep the sys balanced and prevent the pump from running dry or putting strain on pump.
You only need to worry about flooding with a fuge or wetdry is when the sump over flows or the return lines do not have a hole drilled in them (or clogged). This is why I figured out the MAX water to return to my fuge with the holes in return line drilled 1" below water level. I also figured in as if my feed lines to fuge when 100% full and overflow boxes (which they are not). I think I should have like 1" of open fuge volume left when all flows back to fuge.
Also you need to figure out the level with power on and power is off. Then just mark a line.
It is notting to worry about if you figure all the calculations out up, up front. Take your time and do it right.
Also it you assembly or glue it correct it should not have leaks. If it does just fix.

 

[bluedolphi]

Good stuff!
Man..... I am wondering if the sump is like taking a Ferrari to work. Maybe all I need is a Honda.
The sump is cool an all. But it almost seems like it is more trouble than it is worth. Unless you never leave home for long, etc..
I was wondering about the evaporation. Seems like it would need water all the time. And you would need to have some sort of source of treated water available to autofill.
Ok... so. Lets say I want to be cool.
Why can not you cover the sump to avoid evaporation? The tank top should allow for air transfer?
Install check valves as needed? And it seems like a simple ball valve installed on the output from the pump could be used to adjust the flow rate a bit. And the pin hole idea sounds like a winner.
And what is everyone doing about the need to add water every day (or more)? What is a good method of autofilling the sump?
Seems like this sump idea could use a WHOLE lotta space before too long with all the extras needed.
Is a canister a good idea for saltwater? And if you need a regfuge, can't one be made to work with the canister set up?

 

[qwiksilver360]

sumps are great imo
i prefer a clean looking tank
and with a sump you have a place to put heaters and protein skimmers and other equipment and its out of sight
so i love them
the only major problem i have had is a flood
i turned off the power and the sump filled up and stopped so i went outside to clean filters and when i came back in there was about 3 gallons of water on the ground it came from a slow siphon that was created from my return nozzle being submerged
since then i drilled an anti-siphon hole
also make sure your protein skimmer will fit mine barely fits
its has literally 1/4" of width space
but other than that me likey the sumps

 

[bluedolphi]

What is the size of your protein skimmer? The sump dimensions are 12" wide, 16" tall, and 30" long.
The pin hole is a definite.
What about evaporation? How often do you add water? Do you keep a large container with treated water ready?

 

[qwiksilver360]

um im not sure if your talking to me but i tell you anyways :joy:
the skimmer is the euroreef cs6-1 its 8.5"x10"x20"
the open area in my sump for the skimmer is 8.75" x 12"
height is no problem
you should be good on space unless you get some massive skimmer
i get about a gallon and a half a week of evaporation
i topoff every day to keep the water level in the sump consistant
yup always have at least 25 gallons of fresh water (ro/di) on standbye

 

[bigmac]

The pros of a sump far exceed the cons. If you do it right you'll never have to worry about any problems. The people who have problems don't do it right...nough said.

 

[bluedolphi]

Qwik....
What do you store all that water in?
Thanks by the way.

 

[mburnickas]

bigmac -- BINGO ---Everyone keeps worrying about flooding. If you have a flood YOU screwed up and it is not a "sumps fault. The same goes for a wet/dry.
Fuges / sumps WORK period, just figure out the water level in tank, fuge, and the location of the drill hole on the return line. All this takes about 1 minute of thinking. This is what raises or lowers the water level in fuge.
To close, all you are doing is figured out all the volume of water that might or will come back. Then make sure you have that ammount of volume (open space) in sump.
Example if you have 10 gallons of water coming back when power goes out, make sure the sump can hold 10.5g or 11g or 12g. This free space is design by what you want when you make it, that is the wonderful thing about making them. You do what YOU want. I designed mine for up to 125 gallon tank with the drill hole 1" under water line. I also can control the water level in my return compartment by using the ball valves on returns.
Nothing to worry about. If you want less water,just put silicone or PVC glue over the drilled out (first take out of water and dry) and then put another new drilled up UP some delta (ie 0.5") so that dilled hole is now only 0.5" or 1/2 under water level.

 

[arjayl]

BlueDolphi
Don't forget about your Skimmer....Crank the air inlet to high and your gallon overflow soon becomes 3-5 gallons of water on your floor! I've had this a couple times trying to dial in the Skimmer!
I set up a WetDry/Fuge. I used a prebuilt Wet/Dry and built the Fuge from Plexi. TEST, TEST, TEST. Its very easy to simulate a power outage....unplug the return pump from the wall.
Again the only problems I ever had was from the Skimmer...which of course was because of ME, not the equipment.

 

[jlem]

Originally posted by mburnickas
bigmac -- BINGO ---Everyone keeps worrying about flooding. If you have a flood YOU screwed up and it is not a "sumps fault. The same goes for a wet/dry.

Anytime that you have piping you have a chance for a flood. Even if it is a leak it still will result in a flood. I have nothing against sumps but there is no way of flood or leak proofing a sump or wet/dry. Even a canister can spring a leak. Even my Seaclone could leak eventually. Sumps are nice because they hide equipment but I just don't like having more to hassle with. I have the easiest system to take care of in the whole world though, so i feel that sumps and filters ( I do skim ) would be needless maintenance for my system.

 

[mburnickas]

jlem--I agree but if someone is THAT worried about a leak I would not take reef tanks as a hobbie. Also move inland if you are by the shore!
Sumps are not much work once you have it "dialed in"

 

[qwiksilver360]

Originally posted by BlueDolphi
Qwik....
What do you store all that water in?
Thanks by the way.
the lfs here has five gallon jugs with caps that they rent or you can buy them for a good price