Quarantine Tank Help...Sick Tang in beginning stages

kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
Like the pics and thanks for sharing your little "MICU" (Marine fish Intesive Care Unit)LOL.
The Tang really should have something to hide in. You can take a large coffee cup or mug and put it into the tank for him to hide in. Turn the cup off to the side or facing to the back.
As Beas pointed out ealier, give something for him to pick on, we use lettuce leaf and clip it on the glass. He will or should devour that in no time.
Sorry to say, no. There is no easy way to get the poops out Lol... You may have to siphon qid.,.... uhm.... every other day to get that out or you may get some high reading on ammonia.
I would say leave lights out more often to reduce stress of your patients. On maybe for a few hours and off the rest. They need there rest. And most importantly....... don't over feed. Oh.... and NOOOOO to the fresh water dip...... no no no no no. (JMO)
Theres my good deed for the day.
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
Sorry I was away this weekend but you where in good hands with morgan175, beaslbob and Kiefers. Some of your question that weren't answered.
"My issue is...the foam/sponge filter is a joke. Seems like more filtration is needed asap? Can I hook up a fluval canister or tetra power filter? Can I leave the carbon in since I am treating by hyposalinity methods???Carbon really doesn't do much for ammonia but will remove organics that will turn into ammonia so I say YES. For ammonia get yourself a bottle of Amquel +.
Also, how do I clean the poop in a hospital tank? Is there a way to siphon without taking out gallons of water? As needed Or will I just do better in time?
FWIW, my Tang is stressed, but eating and swimming well in the day time. At night, she's not interested in going into the PVC. At night, she sleeps under PVC, on the bare floor, lying on her side almost touching the heater (new and strange behavior). She also does not want to move at night. If I put on the actinics, she still stays like that. I dont think she's doing well, but her daytime behavior is different. The Ich is everywhere on her. I didnt freshwater dip her because I dont know what I'm doing and I thought she couldnt handle the stress. Should I do it now? No, I personally never had luck with fresh water dips, should be last resort. Also, our pH is 7.4, but NH3/NO2-/NO3- is normal. I am going to add Baking Soda soon. :/ Yes this needs to be at least 7.8 could also added stress.
Should I leave the airstone in there 24-7, is it supposed to be at the bottom of the tank or more to the surface?? Bottom leave it run Should it be closer to my distressed Tang? no will freak him out more.
By how much do most lower thesalinity daily until reaching 0.009? I guess I should go really slow bc of the Tang? should be done over 48 hours, and raising over 7 days.
Let me know if you have anymore question.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
If your pH is 7.4 that would indicate very high carbon dioxide which really really stresses the fish.
Macro algaes will raise that by sucking out the carbon dioxide.
my .02
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
beaslbob, its a QT so he needs just add a buffer or baking soda. Its from lowering salinity its common while doing hypo.
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
I too utilize the use of baking soda in such cases and have had great results from it. However, it should be noted that this should be added slowly to minimize the stress level of the patients. If added to quickly it could cause more damage than good. Make sure you "COOK" it on a cookie sheet before adding into the tank.
I use a turkey baster, 1/4th teaspoon if Baking Soda and tank water. Add 1/4th of soda into the ball of the baster, put the ball on the tube, shake well until disolved, add a squirt into a high flow area and allow 4-6 hours until the next squirt.
Test pH before addtional application.
On another note, carbon is a good idea, but one can use regular filtration media and carbon underneath that as needed.
The poop issue...... you can suck it up with the turkey baster and dump into the toilet. this way you are not taking out more water than needed.
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/20#post_3434954
If your pH is 7.4 that would indicate very high carbon dioxide which really really stresses the fish.
Macro algaes will raise that by sucking out the carbon dioxide.
my .02
The OP should have good water movement on the water surface, I can't recall if this has been pointed out or not. This would help with the gas issues. Also, open or closed lid?
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/20#post_3434981
beaslbob, its a QT so he needs just add a buffer or baking soda. Its from lowering salinity its common while doing hypo.
With or without the Baking soda pH will rise as macros suck out the carbon dioxide. For instance (and just as an extreme), my heavily plants FW tank of a pH of 8.4-8.8 (purple api high range test kit) with no circulation not even an air stone. (kh from 4 degrees to very high levels)
It can hardly be harmful to the fish for plants to provide food which increases the immune system, while reducing the carbon dioxide and returning oxygen.
So much so that IMHO hyp is not needed.
Still just my .02
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/20#post_3435007
With or without the Baking soda pH will rise as macros suck out the carbon dioxide. For instance (and just as an extreme), my heavily plants FW tank of a pH of 8.4-8.8 (purple api high range test kit) with no circulation not even an air stone. (kh from 4 degrees to very high levels)
It can hardly be harmful to the fish for plants to provide food which increases the immune system, while reducing the carbon dioxide and returning oxygen.
So much so that IMHO hyp is not needed.
Still just my .02
i may have been misled, does the op have ich?
 
reeferchief

reeferchief

Member
I give you props for this!!!! You put this together really fast and took proactive measures. How did you catch the fish? Did you have to move all the rock?
I had a powder brown tang that caught ich bad like you are describing, where it was falling off of him. I ran out bought the tank and places to hide as well as the treatment and and all the equipment, it was just too late. I got him into the QT and he was just floping around and not happy at all. I went out that night and came home to my tang bottom up. He did not have a chance. A week later my orange clown died.
Now 3 months later the lone survivor, my black clown, is doing fine with no treatment and he is very happy along with a new clown, 2 orange spot goby's (which I thought would clean the sand and rocks of ich) and they are still doing well, a lawn mower blenny and a kole tang.
Looks like if I ever have a problem I will be asking you as well as the fellow members who gave awesome advice in this thread...I hope they pull through, for mine who didn't make it!!!!!
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/20#post_3435011
i may have been misled, does the op have ich?
sick tang they have used kick ich and the tang has white spots.
with low pH it is exactly what happened to me why I first started a 55g years ago. Even lost a couple of tangs.
I started down the same road with a new yellow tang complete with with spots after 2 weeks.
One day after adding macro algaes pH was 8.2. A week later pH was 8.4-8.8. The white spots cleared up, the tang became fat and healthy, doubled in size (plus then some) in a year and was in the tank for 3-5 years after that.
my .02
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
wait.... so what your telling me is that by adding macro it helped kick the ich?
The pH I can understand, I have a macro tank/ coral QT and grow the purple macro like weeds
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
The pH should be at 8.0. The lower pH would be best in an aquaria that may experience ammonia spike due to its recent setup and bioload. The immediate fix is to do the baking soda. You will want to make pH changes relatively slowly, however, right now, the pH is way too low so actions need to start immediately.
Will macros hold up with salinity swings going from saltwater to brackish? Also, you can't use macros if medications is ultimately needed in a hospital tank.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/20#post_3435268
The pH should be at 8.0. The lower pH would be best in an aquaria that may experience ammonia spike due to its recent setup and bioload. The immediate fix is to do the baking soda. You will want to make pH changes relatively slowly, however, right now, the pH is way too low so actions need to start immediately.
Will macros hold up with salinity swings going from saltwater to brackish? Also, you can't use macros if medications is ultimately needed in a hospital tank.
Beth
both good points. Macros may not do well at lower salinities and they will biosorb (filter out) medications as well.
 
foxandhound

foxandhound

Member
Hey guys! I feel like I am in such good hands here!!!! It means a lot to myself and Seth. (EDIT: not SnakeBlitz though he's a good guy too! lol)
Update: The Tang has lost most of her Ich spots, she is eating very well, swimming when no one is watching (LOL). Should I start a 30 day count of Hospitalization after the last spot is seen? Salinity levels are almost at 0.009...still doing it verrrrrry gradually. I need another refractometer, I sadly dropped mine in a flurry. My LSF has a D-D brand one for $64. Is this a decent brand? I read so much about people saying their refractometer has to be calibrated 3-4xs a day, it's hard to read, etc etc. I got mine used and it was no brand, it was great until I dropped it.
About water movement...well, I guess it's decent. I have one bubble stone which I will now position at the bottom of the tank, the sponge filter that makes bubbles is in there, and we added a tetra carbon filter which makes a half water fall. Is this OK for water movement??
Yes, you guessed it! NH3 levels are requiring daily water changes. In addition to the carbon filter, I guess I overfed these guys! I read that you have to feed daily during Ich/illnesses? Clearly, there's a difference between feeding daily and overfeeding!!! :D I will change my methods and I will get AmQuel tomorrow, thank you so much for that! Also, I have raised the pH to 8 using the baking soda method. I will now be decreasing the hours of lighting to allow rest, wish I did that sooner. Oh and this is an open top tank, I have a link over it, but no cover or canopy.
Wish I could do macros, but I really waned to do the most powerful thing I could. I would/could change my method of attack....
A damsel came down with what appears to be more of an injury than a pop eye infection. Seems he has an injury/blister on and mostly above his eye. I guess this is why people spend more money on fancier nets? We QTed him. LOL- a second, smaller hospital. Treating with epsom and Melafix. Seems to be going down slowly. Hopefully we are doing the right thing here. He gets 100% water changes daily, but he is not in hyposalinity yet.
The tang is "supposed" to hide in/under/behind the biggest PVC in there (which is huge and can definitely fit her comfortably), but she wants to hide under some dinky smaller pipe, so now I see her and maroon clown possibly clashing on it. A trip to home depot for a larger pipe is in order. And maybe some of these eggcrate/mesh. Thanks for the suggestions. Our Tang is on to recovery because of you guys!
Reeferchief, we are neighbors. I'm in deerfield beach! I am so sorry for what you went through. Where did you get your fish? We lost a fish by rehoming him to AllfishEmp, he was dead in 3 days. I almost hate that place. We set up a 55 gallon tank and bought another stand off craigslist. Taking all rock out of the DT was the only way. Took hours, was a nightmare, everything you can assume! We removed almost every non-coral rock and put them in a full saltwater bin, chased fish all over, drip acclimated each fish in their own bucket, some didnt look so good, but all survived. What a lesson!
Mr. Limpid, you rock and I will surely return the favor to this community and help others when I fugure this out! This is the hardest part...I hope. :]
So, I guess our Fish may be able to get back into the DT by Christmas. lol.
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
Yes.... a refractometer is very important while doing hypo. Glad to hear however all is going somewhat smoothly in the hospital tank.
Watch the amount of times you do your water changes. This too can hurt the tank and the fish in it. If you go and get the Amquel or Prime, this should help out alot. A little trick while feeding, take a fork, if feeding mysis, and put enough to cover just the tip of the fork. Feed this way twice. Are you adding garlic to the mix? If not we can go over this too, very simple and in my opinion it will help the critters eat and provide some Vit. C in the mean time.
What I meant by water flow was actually surface aggitation. Now that you mentioned it, do you have a small powerhad in the bin with the coral? If not I would concider getting one.
Once again, glad to read all is working out for ya. Hang in there and I personally would keep them in there until a week after Christmas. (Santa willing of course) Lol
BTW.......... Hows about a pic?
 
foxandhound

foxandhound

Member
Well, I should hope your wife knows more about this than I do!!! Yes, yes, my boyfriend is also named Seth.
Kiefers, I do add garlic, but the fish dont seem to eat it. Maybe I nee to make a paste? The coral is in the DT again...with powerheads and all that! :D Picture later tonight of MICU...lol! The tips of a fork...wow- I have been overfeeding. My Seth is taking care of that and will be doing the feeding now.
 
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