Quarantine Tank question

J

jstdv8

Guest
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3271783
Easier yes better definitely not. Let’s take the case of the statement that if you remove your LR and live sand you break the life cycle of ick (sorry if the word ick shows my lack of knowledge on the subject but just bare (everyone take off their clothes ) with me). I could have just said that his was not a true statement. That would have meant that hobbyists would have to believe me or not. Instead I asked the hobbyist posting that statement to revisit the life cycle of ick and see if he can validate his statement or find if it was false. One way or another he would have a foundation for his statement and not just take my word for it
BTW I just found out its Cryptocaryon Irritans I guess you are never too old to learn
How did I know I wasnt going to get an answer to my question with your next reply but yet another wild goose chase of go read up on it, But don't beleive everything you read. Just for the record I never said anything about live sand or live rock in the QT, I was and still am curious about the freshwater dip.
This is the worst thread Ive ever been a part of (well, if you don't count the Joe's gotta vent thread)
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3271644
I read up on this stuff but everybody has a different idea on how long, what to treat, when to treat, and now this freshwater dip thing I wasnt fully aware of.
You need stop reading online articles and forum opinions. Find something with a research base.... a journal. Then you don't have to worry about opinions because it is evidence based research.
I'm not understanding what the question is, I guess. I'm not trying to dance around anything.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3271985
How did I know I wasnt going to get an answer to my question with your next reply but yet another wild goose chase of go read up on it, But don't beleive everything you read. Just for the record I never said anything about live sand or live rock in the QT, I was and still am curious about the freshwater dip.
This is the worst thread Ive ever been a part of (well, if you don't count the Joe's gotta vent thread)
This is really not that difficult to understand.your quote. So, wouldnt it be alot easier to just come out and say it rather than dance around the subject?
My response
that it is better to do your own research then just take one persons opinion .
Where did you get the idea that the live rock and sand example was in reference to you. If you go back and read the entire thread you will see who posted that statement.
.Your quote This is the worst thread Ive ever been a part of (well, if you don't count the Joe's gotta vent thread).
Well that may be due to the fact that it is the sum of all its posters
BTW this is the info I got after 10 seconds of A wild goose chase
One of the simplest and fastest ways to reduce and eliminate the numbers of all types of ich organisms, as well as flukes and lice that are parasitic on saltwater fishes is to give them a quick freshwater dip or bath. This method of hyposalinity is very effective, takes little time to prepare for, and is strongly recommended as the first step in treating ich diseased fish prior to placing them into a QT for long term treatment with the proper medication for what ails them.
Difficulty: Easy
Time Required: Less than 10 minutes
Here's How:
1.Fill a plastic container of choice with an appropriate source of freshwater, such as RO/DI filtered water. If you have no choice but to use tap water, be sure to dechorlinate it first.
2.To prevent unnecessary shock and stress, try to match the pH and temperature of the freshwater to that of the aquarium water the fish will be removed from.
3.To prevent ammonia from building up in the treatment water, add an ammonia eliminating product. AmQuel by Kordon is highly recommended for this purpose, and it is a dechlorinate as well (shop & compare prices).
4.Although an optional step, it is recommended that some type of antibiotic medication be added to the treatment water as well. Because fish will be confined in a small amount of water, probably with other fish, the freshwater will cause them to expel waste, which in turn will most likely foul up the water. A nitrofurazone based product works well to help protect the fish from being exposed to their own waste during the procedure.
5.Keep the water vigorously aerated during treatment. The simplest way to do this is to insert an air stone into the container.
6.Remove all the fish from the infected aquarium and place them into the freshwater. If you have a large number of fish to treat, do not overcrowd the container. You can do small groups at a time, changing the water after each group has been treated.
7.For the best results fish should remain in the freshwater for a duration of 3 to 4 minutes. If any fish is showing signs of undue stress after a minute or two, remove it.
Tips:
1.If when you initially put the fish in the freshwater they settle to the bottom on their sides and do not move about, don't worry, they usually upright themselves and start moving around within about the first minute. If concerned you can nudge them a little bit to stimulate movement, and if any fish looks to be overly stressed, remove it.
2.Sometimes during the dip/bath the water can become extremely fouled with waste. By making up and setting some extra treatment water aside it can be used to do water changes during the procedure if this occurs.
3.If you do not plan to quaratine new fish prior to placing them into the main aquarium, and as long as there are no signs of stress from being in transit, it doesn't hurt to give them a quick freshwater dip or bath as a preventative measure.
What You Need:
•Plastic container
•Ammonia destroying product
•Nitrofurazone based medication
•Air pump and air stone
•Freshwater
•QT
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
I read that same article Joe. But like cranberry said I don't know wheather thats based on facts or if someone just made it up off the top of thier head because it seemed like a good idea. I don't know if it came from a journal or an online article.
Look, all Im really looking for is what you guys do. If it works for joe, spanko, cranberry and a bunch of other posters I feel I can rely on then it will probably work for me too.
So basically so far in this thread I've gotten.
1.) 4 weeks is fine to just sit and watch your new fish in your QT. If it shows signs of ich or other problems, treat and then start the clock over. This is what Ive been doing.
2.) Take a look at the life cycle of ich and make a determination on if 4 weeks is really long enough. (I'm assuming this poster would only say this if he thought that 4 weeks wasnt long enough.)
3.) Ich is likley to show itself when a fish is stressed
4.) a QT is a very relaxed non stressfull place for the fsh.
5.) You should begin medication to treat ich even if you don't see it on the fish
6.) You just need to watch the fish and treat if something appears wrong with the fish.
The next two interest me that I've read elsewhere only breifly and don't really understand
7.) A DT must fallow for a full 8 weeks.
8.) The released tomonts swim for 2 to 6 hours before settling on a substrate. (Nicholl and Ewing found that a light substrate was preferred to a dark one.) Some biologists count this brief interval as a fourth life stage (in which it is susceptible to medication, by the way, according to Dr. Peter Burgess, the resident "fish doctor" at Practical Fishkeeping magazine). Quickly it attaches to a substrate and encysts, as the reproducing stage. This life-stage doesn't eat. Its metabolic clock is now ticking; it is spending its stored energy to divide and divide again within the short-lived cyst. The tomont's time-span remains temperature-dependent: at common aquarium temperatures it's a matter of hours to days. (In a chilly koi pond in early spring, the cyst may persist longer.) Ultimately hundreds of mobile tomites burst from the cyst, even as many as 2000. They quick sprout cilia and start actively swimming about in search of a host. The fully developed "swarmers" are now called theronts (Greek ther- denotes a critter). The tomites'/theronts' metabolism is also temperature-dependent, but they must find a host within a very few days or perish: at 68oF none survived after 55 hours, according to Schaperclaus.
So, on 7 and 8 why do you need to keep the DT tank fish free for 8 weeks if according to the few sources Ive read ich cannot live without a host after 55 hours?
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3272048
I just have to ask Joe: Can ammonia really accumulate during a 3-4 min FW bath?
I dip for 10, but no, I don't believe it is anything to worry about. Freshwater dips do cause a fish to defaecate but it would take a bit for that to convert. They do breath faster in the FW, but again, not enough or fast enough to affect the fish.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3272053
Look, all Im really looking for is what you guys do. If it works for joe, spanko, cranberry and a bunch of other posters I feel I can rely on then it will probably work for me too.
I'm still not quite sure what the specific discussion is about anymore O.O
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Cranberry, You just answered my question while answering srfishers question. Just wanted to hear it from you :)
So now I guess my next question is should I pull my sixline out of QT and do this freshwater dip and start over again?
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
my sixline has been in QT for 9 days. no dip, no treatment, just in there and Ive been looking real close (H'es quite small)
Should I pull him out and do the dip and start over my 4 week timer?
should I pull him out do the dip and keep the timer the same?
Should I do nothing at all and just keep going with my 4 week QT with observation?
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3272053
I read that same article Joe. But like cranberry said I don't know wheather thats based on facts or if someone just made it up off the top of thier head because it seemed like a good idea. I don't know if it came from a journal or an online article.
Look, all Im really looking for is what you guys do. If it works for joe, spanko, cranberry and a bunch of other posters I feel I can rely on then it will probably work for me too.
So basically so far in this thread I've gotten.
1.) 4 weeks is fine to just sit and watch your new fish in your QT. If it shows signs of ich or other problems, treat and then start the clock over. This is what Ive been doing.
2.) Take a look at the life cycle of ich and make a determination on if 4 weeks is really long enough. (I'm assuming this poster would only say this if he thought that 4 weeks wasnt long enough.)
3.) Ich is likley to show itself when a fish is stressed
4.) a QT is a very relaxed non stressfull place for the fsh.
5.) You should begin medication to treat ich even if you don't see it on the fish
6.) You just need to watch the fish and treat if something appears wrong with the fish.
The next two interest me that I've read elsewhere only breifly and don't really understand
7.) A DT must fallow for a full 8 weeks.
8.) The released tomonts swim for 2 to 6 hours before settling on a substrate. (Nicholl and Ewing found that a light substrate was preferred to a dark one.) Some biologists count this brief interval as a fourth life stage (in which it is susceptible to medication, by the way, according to Dr. Peter Burgess, the resident "fish doctor" at Practical Fishkeeping magazine). Quickly it attaches to a substrate and encysts, as the reproducing stage. This life-stage doesn't eat. Its metabolic clock is now ticking; it is spending its stored energy to divide and divide again within the short-lived cyst. The tomont's time-span remains temperature-dependent: at common aquarium temperatures it's a matter of hours to days. (In a chilly koi pond in early spring, the cyst may persist longer.) Ultimately hundreds of mobile tomites burst from the cyst, even as many as 2000. They quick sprout cilia and start actively swimming about in search of a host. The fully developed "swarmers" are now called theronts (Greek ther- denotes a critter). The tomites'/theronts' metabolism is also temperature-dependent, but they must find a host within a very few days or perish: at 68oF none survived after 55 hours, according to Schaperclaus.
So, on 7 and 8 why do you need to keep the DT tank fish free for 8 weeks if according to the few sources Ive read ich cannot live without a host after 55 hours?
again you must go back to the life cycle of ick.
so i ask you what if the ick parasite has fallen off the fish in your DT just as you put it into QT how long do you need to keep your tank fallow.
As for your other question i wound just observe. I personally do not use a fresh water dip unless its an emergency
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3272064
my sixline has been in QT for 9 days. no dip, no treatment, just in there and Ive been looking real close (H'es quite small)
Should I pull him out and do the dip and start over my 4 week timer?
should I pull him out do the dip and keep the timer the same?
Should I do nothing at all and just keep going with my 4 week QT with observation?
Well, I guess there are a couple ways to think here... a FW dip won't get rid of all parasites , but it will knock off those close to the surface. These keeps the numbers down for when you put them in QT. BUT, do you really want to suppress the numbers so that they will not be in numbers high enough to be visible by the time the 4 weeks is up?
This thread is to confusing for me to do much with besides answer specific questions.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3272053
(In a chilly koi pond in early spring, the cyst may persist longer.) Ultimately hundreds of mobile tomites burst from the cyst, even as many as 2000.
Wait now... why are you making a reference to a freshwater environment?
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
I found the article you are referencing.... that's ichthyophthirius multifiliis they are discussing. Albeit, similar to the Marine ich cryptocaryon irritans in some ways.... it's a completely different parasite.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3272066
again you must go back to the life cycle of ick.
so i ask you what if the ick parasite has fallen off the fish in your DT just as you put it into QT how long do you need to keep your tank fallow.
As for your other question i wound just observe. I personally do not use a fresh water dip unless its an emergency
I guess maybe alot of my lack of understanding is in terminoligy and I'm getting crossed with the difference between fallow times and QT times. So what exactly does fallow mean? I thought it meant tank running fishless.
I run across this little diagram alot so I'm going to assume that it is correct. http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/ich...hlifecycle.htm
So, a noob like me looking at this diagram and reading below would assume that if the fish has marine ich have some sort of visible signs of it (If this is not true then I'm wrong right from the start). And then reading on a noob like me would assume that once it drops off the fish it is in this little cyst and can live up to 10 days. Then reading on it says that tomites are discharged from the cyst and can survive another 2 days before they have to find a host.
So, a noob like me would assume that we have 10days and 2 days making a total of 12 days from the time the cyst drops off the fish (the time its not visible) So this has me wondering why 8 weeks? If there is no fish in the tank according to this chart wouldnt they all die within 12 days? This part is one of the areas that confuses me. I'm easily confused I guess :)
The second part that really gets me is that according to the chart, once the fish has ich it is visible (at least on the gills) but according to alot of otehr stuff I've read on here and elsewhere, fish can have ich but not show it usually not until they get stressed.
I think we are getting somewhere here. I just don't understand the contradictions on a few things.
 
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