Quarantine Tank question

J

jstdv8

Guest
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3272074
Wait now... why are you making a reference to a freshwater environment?
Crap, I dunno, I didnt realize they were talking about freshwater. didnt catch the koi reference.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
I really just want to know what you guys use for QT time, and weather a dip is used and waether you medicate right away or not until you see signs. Those three things will set me on the right path. It doesnt even have to make sense to me why you do it. All I'd like is confirmation from the people I trust the most in this hobby and I've got all three of thier attentions at the moment :) To me, your words are far superior to anything I can read in a journal or a book. I've seen your tanks and I've read more than 10 books worth of your posts and I've never seen anybody come back and say "Hey, WTF!"
LOL, thats good enough for me :)
I do appreciate the help, I just want to know that the procedures I'm using are the correct ones.
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3272268
I really just want to know what you guys use for QT time, and weather a dip is used and waether you medicate right away or not until you see signs. Those three things will set me on the right path. It doesnt even have to make sense to me why you do it. All I'd like is confirmation from the people I trust the most in this hobby and I've got all three of thier attentions at the moment :) To me, your words are far superior to anything I can read in a journal or a book. I've seen your tanks and I've read more than 10 books worth of your posts and I've never seen anybody come back and say "Hey, WTF!"
LOL, thats good enough for me :)
I do appreciate the help, I just want to know that the procedures I'm using are the correct ones.
I QT 4 weeks min. I don't treat unless I see a reason. I don't FW dip.
I was going to hypo everyone going into the Lionfish Lair tank. The volitans had spots a few weeks back but they are gone. We found a source of stress and removed it and are sitting back to watch if his own immunity can beat it. Last time we played the waiting game, we had a full Ich bloom in no time (but we didn't remove the stressor). This time, it seems to have suppressed itself. I'm feeding dried ghost shrimp injected with vitamin C, Vitamin B and Beta Glucan.
I'm going to be very fearful of mixing this volitans with the frondosa because of this episode. We're going to wait until after the move. If that stress doesn't bring it back on, I think we'll be okay..... I think.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
It doesnt even have to make sense to me why you do it. All I'd like is confirmation from the people I trust the most in this hobby
You are much too good a hobbyist to just accept what others do. If It does not make sense to you then ask questions and research some more. If you do not understand a concept and just pass it on to others no one wins
Just for the record I go with this time line for ick it is what Julian Sprung presented at one of our club meetings as something agreed on by Mote Marine lab. Here in Fl.
Parasitic stage 3 to 7 days
Free swimming stage (after falling off fish) 18 hrs to settle on some surface
Reproductive stage 3 to 28 days
Free swimming stage (to infect fish) 24 to 48 hrs
If we acquire a fish that has just been infected the total time to once again infect the fish can be as long as 38 days now that’s about 5 weeks. there is also the chance that we introduce ick in its free swimming stage via transport water when we acquired the fish so add two more days to the time line. This is why IMO when I QT and treat for ick I treat 6 weeks. We have to remember depending on what we use to brake the life cycle of Ick they are only vulnerable in the reproductive stage (hypo) free swimming stage (copper). As far as ick always having to be visible, this is not true. Your fish could have the parasites deep into its gills and not be readily seen. In this case the hobbyist does not treat in the QT until the parasite multiplies to numbers that the infestation is viable on the fish.
On keeping a tank fallow. (Fish-less ) if you go with my time line and a the parasite falls off the fish as you remove it to your QT you need to keep it fish less from free swimming to free swimming or at least 5 weeks ( again going by the time line I use. BTW I like to add one more week to the fallow state.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3272309
You are much too good a hobbyist to just accept what others do. If It does not make sense to you then ask questions and research some more. If you do not understand a concept and just pass it on to others no one wins
Just for the record I go with this time line for ick it is what Julian Sprung presented at one of our club meetings as something agreed on by Mote Marine lab. Here in Fl.
Parasitic stage 3 to 7 days
Free swimming stage (after falling off fish) 18 hrs to settle on some surface
Reproductive stage 3 to 28 days
Free swimming stage (to infect fish) 24 to 48 hrs
If we acquire a fish that has just been infected the total time to once again infect the fish can be as long as 38 days now that’s about 5 weeks. there is also the chance that we introduce ick in its free swimming stage via transport water when we acquired the fish so add two more days to the time line. This is why IMO when I QT and treat for ick I treat 6 weeks. We have to remember depending on what we use to brake the life cycle of Ick they are only vulnerable in the reproductive stage (hypo) free swimming stage (copper). As far as ick always having to be visible, this is not true. Your fish could have the parasites deep into its gills and not be readily seen. In this case the hobbyist does not treat in the QT until the parasite multiplies to numbers that the infestation is viable on the fish.
On keeping a tank fallow. (Fish-less ) if you go with my time line and a the parasite falls off the fish as you remove it to your QT you need to keep it fish less from free swimming to free swimming or at least 5 weeks ( again going by the time line I use. BTW I like to add one more week to the fallow state.
Good stuff!
I guess I still don't understand why you need to add up all the stages of the life cycle when two of them are what happens while its on the fish. You've removed the fish from the system so it seems like you wouldnt count those two stages. only the ones that involve once the cyst has dropped from the fish and the free swimming stage. I guess its irrevevant since your timeline says that the reproductive stage is up to 28 days which is the majority of your time line. which is way off from the link I posted.
Cool, So Ive gotten 4-6 weeks as a good rule, the longer the better as long as the fish seems to be taking it well.
and the freshwater dip is kind of a personal preference. I think I'll start doing this in the future since it seems like a good idea and doesnt seem to hurt anything.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
ok, now a whole other animal. What do you guys do for corals? do you just dip them in something that kills off parasites that are in the free swimming or reproductive stages? And if its a dip, what is it called or do you make your own?
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
ok, now a whole other animal
Not so fast
I guess I still don't understand why you need to add up all the stages of the life cycle when two of them
OK lets say you are treating with copper now copper is toxic to ick in the free swimming stage BUT to be sure we have killed all of the parasite in the free swimming stage we have to wait for the entire time line to see if ick appears on the fish again Its the same thing with hypo we can only be sure the parasite did not survive and multiply by waiting to see the same thing(if the fish shows no signs of infestation )
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
I was still talking about the fallow thing. sorry, should have specified. I guess I don't see why you would need to fallow for the whole cycle since there are no fish present and two of the stages are hosting stages.
I get the QT timeline.
SR, when you say you qt everything is that including corals? If so, what exactly are you looking for on them since they probably won't have cysts or whatever? and what do you do for lighting? and what if you brng a coral home while you are QTing a fish? set up another QT tank?
LOL, turns out I have more questions than I even knew I had.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
I was still talking about the fallow thing. sorry, should have specified. I guess I don't see why you would need to fallow for the whole cycle since there are no fish present and two of the stages are hosting stages.
if when you remove the fish from the DT to the QT the ick parasite falls off the fish. what is the longest time frame it can live without a host.when it gets to that stage in its life cycle (fall off divide find a host). BTW i am stating to think YOU are testing ME
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Hard to QT many corals due to light requirements. Keep in mind that soft corals can not carry ich, but the rocks they are mounted on can. QTing corals for a week is a good idea, as long as they are not QTed with fish!.
If you buy corals locally, you can make inquiries with the store about coral tanks sharing water, filters, equipment, etc., with fish tanks, and then assess whether you can trust the LFS to keep coral and fish tanks completely separated. Many quality fish stores will keep them separated because of their parasitic control practices that includes medicating fish tanks, which can't be done with corals.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3272420
Hard to QT many corals due to light requirements. Keep in mind that soft corals can not carry ich, but the rocks they are mounted on can. QTing corals for a week is a good idea, as long as they are not QTed with fish!.
If you buy corals locally, you can make inquiries with the store about coral tanks sharing water, filters, equipment, etc., with fish tanks, and then assess whether you can trust the LFS to keep coral and fish tanks completely separated. Many quality fish stores will keep them separated because of their parasitic control practices that includes medicating fish tanks, which can't be done with corals.
Just to add to what Beth said a problem can also arrive when we buy corals attached to rock (can be the home for unwanted hitchhikers )
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3272409
I was still talking about the fallow thing. sorry, should have specified. I guess I don't see why you would need to fallow for the whole cycle since there are no fish present and two of the stages are hosting stages.
Lets just keep in mind that ich is not all going to act in unison when it comes to their individual life cycle. Things are not that easy when it comes to living organisms. This means that the parasites are individuals, on individual life cycles and timeframes. They do not go through their individual life cycle at exactly the same time together.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
exactly that's why you must take the longest time frame you believe in and start when you remove the fish and assume that's when the parasite was introduced into your tank in its stage where it is attaching to something in your tank to start division
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
The extended treatment timeframe offered by many hobbyists (such as eight weeks) is extremely conservative. Does it take 8 weeks to identify and treat ich? No. However, that timeframe allows for hobbyist error, and is rock solid in ensuring that fish maladies are identified and treatment is effective.
I am very comfortable with QTing fish within a 3 week time period, but I am also very comfortable with my own ability to ID ich (and other fish ailments) and to effectively treat ich. Many hobbyists need to allow for a margin of error with their QTing practices and with treating ich. Thus, extended QTing is recommended by many and for many hobbyists.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3272411
if when you remove the fish from the DT to the QT the ick parasite falls off the fish. what is the longest time frame it can live without a host.when it gets to that stage in its life cycle (fall off divide find a host). BTW i am stating to think YOU are testing ME
30 days 18 hours
 
kylev

kylev

Member
Just gotta say reading this thread has given some very good insight for me and starting a QT for my upcoming tank. Thanks everyone
 
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