Question...

[mr. guitar]

Originally Posted by ruaround
so youre saying ALL other religions are wrong and the only religion that should be observed is Christianity... then isnt that going against your the point in your last post???
arent most laws already based on the 10 commandments... or am i just way of in thinking here??? if i am off in my thinking then laws and government are one in the same... perhaps we should look at Government, Laws and Rights all seperately...
I don't want this gettin into some huge arguement. I did not say all other religions are wrong and that the only religion that should be observed is Christianity. If I said alll other religions are wrong...then why do I hang out with my Islam friends? Key words to point out though...Our founding fathers wanted a Christian nation but they weren't gonna kill over it if you weren't of the Christian belief.
Originally Posted by Dogstar
Thank you for that.....
'' Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a National religion. ''
According to the way you phrased the desire of Madison, it would still allow for congress to make laws respecting an esablishment of any religion they chose to as long as it had not been first declared a National One...Am I understanding you correctly. This is what you also desire ?
No it would not allow Congress to make laws respecting an establishment of any religion. We are talkin about 1791 not the past 50 years.

 

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guitar
No it would not allow Congress to make laws respecting an establishment of any religion. We are talkin about 1791 not the past 50 years.
Well, I dont see anything in the way you want it that would prevent them from doing so......I quess if you dont think people can interprate a seperation from what is written now and can interprate a seperation from what you want written then maybe we just dont understand words the same way....What is it about now vrs. then, judges, Christains, ect. that you keep dropping hints here without explaining, please explain your point clearly so we can discuss it.....if you truely want to.

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guitar
I don't want this gettin into some huge arguement. I did not say all other religions are wrong and that the only religion that should be observed is Christianity. If I said alll other religions are wrong...then why do I hang out with my Islam friends? Key words to point out though...Our founding fathers wanted a Christian nation but they weren't gonna kill over it if you weren't of the Christian belief.
to make a bold statement like "our god" is rather presumptuous... if you have freinds of that practice the islamic religion then you should know that saying something so generic and blanket isnt correct...
so may i ask what does "separation of church and state" mean to you??? and what does the first ammendment do???

 

[mr. guitar]

Originally Posted by Dogstar
Well, I dont see anything in the way you want it that would prevent them from doing so......I quess if you dont think people can interpate a seperation from what is written now and can interprate a seperation from what you want written them maybe we just dont understand words the same way....What is it about now vrs. then, judges, Christains, ect. that you keep dropping hints here without explaining, please explain your point clearly so we can discuss it.....if you truely want to.
Let me explain the Now vs. then thing. Now, modern judges/officials interpret the Constitution in a complete different way. Some judges think the First Amendment says, Freedom from religion. It's supposed to be Freedom of religion. Apparently they can't read correctly.

Back then...I mean the Founding Fathers time. What they meant. How they wanted it to be. Why did the Founding Fathers put certain things in the Consitution and not others? That's what I mean back then. What I mean by back then can also be called Original Intent.
Originally Posted by ruaround
to make a bold statement like "our god" is rather presumptuous... if you have freinds of that practice the islamic religion then you should know that saying something so generic and blanket isnt correct...
so may i ask what does "separation of church and state" mean to you??? and what does the first ammendment do???
In fact, that is correct. Back to original intent. The Founding Fathers wanted it that way. They were Christians...so they said, "Our God". There weren't any Islamic, Jewish, Buddists, or any other religions in America yet. That's why they said, "Our God". So, I am correct. What does separation of church and state mean to me? Well, doesn't mean much to me at all because it's not in the Constitution. What does the First Amendment do? Well, it says we have our Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech (Within reason), Freedom of the Press (Within Reason), Freedom of Petition (Within reason), Freedom of Assembly.

 

[ruaround]

dang Mr. Guitar... you should be a politician...answer the question with the question and make a very vague statement that indirctly almost gets to the point but yet stays so far away from it that you can deny that you ever said that...
our god is not our god because they started this land based on religious freedom..*and to get away from the kings tax... but look at how taxd we are today...
the italians meant for pizza to be pizza but not like it is today unless its like the pizza of old... :notsure:

 

[mr. guitar]

Yeah I thought about my profession being in the government or something like that before. That would be awesome! hahaha. You are right about the religious freedom part. Still, the founders wanted this to be a Christian Nation. About taxes...at first we didn't have taxes, which was stupid. The Articles of Confederation never worked so they made our current Constitution. So, they put in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1...which gives Congress the right to tax us. Without taxes our government wouldn't work. There are a few other things that wouldn't work in our government if they weren't in there, also.
The Italians meant for pizza to be thick, some sauce, and cheese...occasionally a few other ingredients. Now we have BBQ, Jalapeno, Super thin crust, etc.
Do you need me to clarify more on Orignal Intent?

 

[ruaround]

well actually pizza as we know it today differs ALOT from the origanal form... dang evolution...
What Happened?
At first I thought this was funny...then I realized the awful truth of it.
Be sure to read all the way to the end!
Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he's fed.
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.
Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries, then
Tax his tears.
Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his a**
Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.
When he screams and hollers,
Then tax him some more,
T ax him till
He's good and sore.
Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid.
Put these words
upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me
to my doom..."
When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax,
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest expense
Inventory tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service charge taxes
Social Security Tax
Road usage taxes
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Tel ephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the
world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What happened?

 

[mr. guitar]

hahahahahaha. That's funny and true. What ticks me off is my parents have to pay taxes for idiots who do stupid things. There was a guy who used perfectly good tax money from you and a ton of other people to do a "famous" piece of artwork. The government gave him $10,000 to do this. It cost him $10. He relieved himself in a jar. What really made me furious was...he relieved himself on a cross in a jar. That's not right at all. What makes matters even worse is...the government knew what he was going to do!!!!!!!!!! Man, people these days need to get a life. haha.

 

[dogstar]

Kind a like spending around 500 billion on a war for nothing, uh?
You keep saying that the founders wanted the Nation to be a Christain nation....well it is, isn't it?
Not because they wanted it to, but because we are free to be one. If you choose...Dont confuse American values with religious values, they are not the same...
I know some of them were Christans of one tyoe or another and some were not as well.....
What they were was smart men and they debated every word they wrote. They never wrote God or Jesus or any sect or dinomination either any where in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights and Christains dont refer to God as '' nature's God '' so dont go quote that...
As far as how they thought back then....I think they understood what and how religious persecution was like more than any American now, ever could and feared that happening again and wrote the Constitution to, among other things, to prevent it....
Im not attacking you for being religious or speaking your mind, dont think that this is even an attack in any way, I respect your rights to speak and to honor you faith....just understand that I am trying to protect and defend what I think and love about America, as an American....as I feel and want America to be....just as I understand you are.....
I am really defending your right to have the faith you do, but at the same time, you must understand that Im also trying to defend my right to have my faith....Im not sure if you understand...... that that is what an American does. Or at least this American.

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by Dogstar
Kind a like spending around 500 trillion on a war for nothing, uh?
You keep saying that the founders wanted the Nation to be a Christain nation....well it is, isn't it?
Not because they wanted it to, but because we are free to be one. If you choose...Dont confuse American values with religious values, they are not the same...
I know some of them were Christans of one tyoe or another and some were not as well.....
What they were was smart men and they debated every word they wrote. They never wrote God or Jesus or any sect or dinomination either any where in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights and Christains dont refer to God as '' nature's God '' so dont go quote that...
As far as how they thought back then....I think they understood what and how religious persecution was like more than any American now, ever could and feared that happening again and wrote the Constitution to, among other things, to prevent it....
Im not attacking you for being religious or speaking your mind, dont think that this is even an attack in any way, I respect your rights to speak and to honor you faith....just understand that I am trying to protect and defend what I think and love about America, as an American....as I feel and want America to be....just as I understand you are.....
I am really defending your right to have the faith you do, but at the same time, you must understand that Im also trying to defend my right to have my faith....Im not sure if you understand...... that that is what an American does. Or at least this American.
well said Dogstar... ESPECIALLY the last paragraph/statement...

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by ruaround
well actually pizza as we know it today differs ALOT from the origanal form... dang evolution...
What Happened?
At first I thought this was funny...then I realized the awful truth of it.
Be sure to read all the way to the end!
Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he's fed.
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.
Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries, then
Tax his tears.
Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his a**
Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.
When he screams and hollers,
Then tax him some more,
T ax him till
He's good and sore.
Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid.
Put these words
upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me
to my doom..."
When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax,
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest expense
Inventory tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service charge taxes
Social Security Tax
Road usage taxes
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Tel ephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the
world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What happened?
Liberalism

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by Phixer
Liberalism
i do believe that is wrong...

 

[mr. guitar]

Originally Posted by Dogstar
Kind a like spending around 500 billion on a war for nothing, uh?
You keep saying that the founders wanted the Nation to be a Christain nation....well it is, isn't it?
Not because they wanted it to, but because we are free to be one. If you choose...Dont confuse American values with religious values, they are not the same...
I know some of them were Christans of one tyoe or another and some were not as well.....
What they were was smart men and they debated every word they wrote. They never wrote God or Jesus or any sect or dinomination either any where in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights and Christains dont refer to God as '' nature's God '' so dont go quote that...
As far as how they thought back then....I think they understood what and how religious persecution was like more than any American now, ever could and feared that happening again and wrote the Constitution to, among other things, to prevent it....
Im not attacking you for being religious or speaking your mind, dont think that this is even an attack in any way, I respect your rights to speak and to honor you faith....just understand that I am trying to protect and defend what I think and love about America, as an American....as I feel and want America to be....just as I understand you are.....
I am really defending your right to have the faith you do, but at the same time, you must understand that Im also trying to defend my right to have my faith....Im not sure if you understand...... that that is what an American does. Or at least this American.

No I don't see it as an attack. You are speaking your mind and I understand. This caught my eye...You basically said that the Founders didn't put God in the Constitution. Indeed they did. Article 1; Section 7; Clause 1 says,
" If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law."
Key word....(Sundays excepted).
Also the word Lord is in the Constitution...Article 7; Section 1; Clause 2...Which says...
“Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names”
Yeah, the least religious person would be Mr. Benjamin Franklin. Random info.
If you said that I have said, "Natures God" I haven't. If you didn't mean that...sorry.

 

[dogstar]

From your first post here you have found intrest in how people can interprate words to mean things that in your mind dont mean what they think they do....
I was of course being clear to the point that they did not use the words I said, not an interpretation of the words....
This is more of the reallity than an interpratation
Sundays were generally expected to be a common day off for both religious and secular and the use of the word Lord to date a document is not a religious reference, either. It was just a common way of expressing the date, also for both religious and secular.....
My quote about nature's God is from the Declaration of Independance and I just thought you might have been preped on that one too.
What is you interpratation of why they barred any religious test to hold an office ??

 

[mr. guitar]

Originally Posted by Dogstar
From your first post here you have found intrest in how people can interprate words to mean things that in your mind dont mean what they think they do....
I was of course being clear to the point that they did not use the words I said, not an interpretation of the words....
This is more of the reallity than an interpratation
Sundays were generally expected to be a common day off for both religious and secular and the use of the word Lord to date a document is not a religious reference, either. It was just a common way of expressing the date, also for both religious and secular.....
My quote about nature's God is from the Declaration of Independance and I just thought you might have been preped on that one too.
What is you interpratation of why they barred any religious test to hold an office ??
Why did they even put the words Sunday's execpted and the word Lord in the Constitution then? Why do all (except 1) Presidents have said, "So help me God." after their inauguration into office? Why have all Presidents kissed the Bible?
What's my interpretation of religious tests? I'm all for what they put in the Constitution. The Constitution clearly states NO one should take a religious test.

 

[ruaround]

the word "Lord" is used in a date reference... i beleive its "in the year of our lord (insert date here)"... Dogstar already said it was a common way to date documents... and it has NO religious value or reference... and sundays are "the day of rest"... religious or not i would want that day off...

 

[mr. guitar]

Originally Posted by ruaround
the word "Lord" is used in a date reference... i beleive its "in the year of our lord (insert date here)"... Dogstar already said it was a common way to date documents... and it has NO religious value or reference... and sundays are "the day of rest"... religious or not i would want that day off...
Yeah, I think every store should be closed on Sundays. Sundays are the Lord's Day...once again another religious statement in our Constitution.

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by Mr. Guitar
Yeah, I think every store should be closed on Sundays. Sundays are the Lord's Day...once again another religious statement in our Constitution.
there is no way that stores will close on sundays... they would lose way to much money, and not everyone goes to church on sundays... that would be another assumption that everyone is christian...
where does it say that sundays are "the lords day"??? i think youre misinturpreting the statement "sundays excpeted" and the fact that they used a very common way of giving a date... and mixing them together...

 

[schneidts]

Actually, the sabbath is saturday...if you want to get technical.

 

[dogstar]

Im pretty certain they excluded Sunday for legal reasons, not religious one..Many of those guys were lawers, just like now too.....Even today, with day counting deadlines, contracts, ect. they will say that Sundays, weekends, holidays, ect. will not count.....So if the deadline falls on an excluded day then you have thru the next working day...
The Inaugural ceremonies are a tradition,( and waste of money ) not mandaited by the Constitution, its each one's choice to say anything, most just follow the other...
What is mandated by the Constitution, is the Presidental Oath, that was written in the Constitution...written by the founders.....and because we know the word God is not in the Constitution, then its not in the Oath either....