Ray/Shark Tank help...please...

hinesassociates

hinesassociates

New Member
Hey Guys,
Not sure if this is the right forum to put this so sorry if its not...
I am currently looking into setting up a Stingray/Shark tank. I consider myself newish to aquariums. I have had a total of 3 tanks, each for about 2 years. My first tank was 30 gal freshwater. A couple years later I converted it to salt. And my 3rd tank was a tiny nano-something or other. So as you can see my experience was all with pretty small tanks. I have had relatively decent success with fish (though I may or may not have had my rebellious "I dont care if you think I can fit 30 different fish of all different kinds that hate eachother in the same tank...") I have lived and learned as they say. I would like to do this tank correctly. I have all the time in the world and want to do everything right. (I also may or may not have had my rebellious "What do you mean I have to cycle my tank... 2 days should be plenty...") Also I am doing specifics now so it should cut down on the issues with tank mates.
Ok so now that you know a little about me, I come asking for help... I need some advice, especially from someone who has ray/shark experience if possible, but all advice is welcome!
Here is some info on my setup:
1. I think the tank is 80 or so gallons (maybe someone can help me figure this out. It's 60" long and 18" wide and 18" tall.) - so I know this is my first issue. I have heard anything between 125 and 300 gal necessary for rays. My plan was to upgrade in about 6-9 months to around 200gal. Mostly I want to prove I can keep them alive before I go crazy on a huge setup. Do you guys think 1-2 rays would be ok for 6-9 months in this tank?
2. I have a 35 gal sump. This will contain all of my live rock as well as pump and protein skimmer. Is this big enough?
3. Mag 7 700 pump. For moving my waters...
4. Protein Skimmer - Well I dont have that yet so I am looking for suggestions on it. (and yes I know I need this before the fishes... at least I think I need this before the fish... yes?)
5. CaribSea Aragamax Sugar-Sized Sand - 60lbs of it... I also have some live sand to put with it. I chose this sand because I wanted a soft sand for the rays. Does anyone think this is too coarse? Also I may need another bag or 2 I would like about an inch and a half covering the bottom of the tank.
6. Salt and lots of it for making my water (I forget the brand right now, but its not table salt... it is marine salt whatever that means).
7. Amquel plus - to keep all my levels good.
8. Lights... I dont have any yet. Open to suggestions, but power costs are not an issue and no corals just the stingrays and/or maybe 1 small shark. I dont have tons of money, but I do want to do this right.
9. Heater/Chiller - I dont have one of these and I am being told I dont need one since the tank will be in a room that is ALWAYS kept between 74-78. However Ill keep an eye on it just to be sure.
Ok. So is there anything else that I am missing?
The way I understand/remember the steps are pretty much:
1. Get the equipment set up.
2. Put the water in.
3. Wait... once you cant wait any longer double that time. Ive normally done 4 weeks, but let me know if thats too short.
4. Get some cheap fish (that will ultimately last longer than anything else you put in the tank).
5. Get a cleaning crew... suggestions for this???
6. Once everything has been stable for a few weeks then buy the fish I actually want (stingrays in my case... one at a time)
Also I do have a very experienced reef tank guy helping me do all this who has given me tons of suggestions. And he will be making sure my water is perfect. The only unfortunate part is that has doesnt do a lot of fish and has never done rays/sharks. So I am really needing advice from people who do. I know most people say they are very difficult but I have a lot of time and patience so hopefully I will not screw up too bad. I would post pictures but my tank isnt set up yet so I will post when it is. I am just looking for advice right now.
Thanks in advance and I hope my book post hasnt scared all of you off...
-Ben
 
hinesassociates

hinesassociates

New Member
Also I should really specify. I may go with stingrays, but the ones I wanted are technically Brazilian Electric Rays(Narcine brasiliensis) or Lesser Electric Rays. They supposedly require less space and are the rays that originally got me wanting to do a ray tank...
 
hinesassociates

hinesassociates

New Member
I agree... I cant sit here and say beyond a doubt that I will be getting a larger tank, but it is the idea. This tank was originally bought as a sump for a 200 gal I was going to buy. I decided to hold off to see if I could keep rays alive as almost every post Ive read says that "you shouldnt even try to do rays..." I dont want to get major money into this and find out its not feasable to keep rays. My thought process was that I wanted a ray tank. Not that I wanted a tank and then I decided to try rays... Hope that makes sense. I am willing to spend the money and time, but I just want to make sure I can do this before buying bigger everything and it all ends up on craigslist... but trust me I understand your concern. Thanks for the response...
 
btldreef

btldreef

Moderator
As long as you have a plan in place for what to do with the rays should they get too large and you can't provide them with a larger tank, than I fully see where you're coming from. Large tanks are a big upfront investment.
I don't know much about the care of rays other than tank requirements, etc. But if you can find a small healthy specimen, that might be your best option.
 
S

smartorl

Guest
PM Meowzer, or hopefully she will post here. She had a ray that outgrew her 250 within a year I think.
I have never owned a saltwater ray. But, I have many collector friends and have been around them a lot. There is a super high mortality rate amongst the young ones. Getting them to eat in an artificial environment can be very hard. The system would without a doubt need to be very established and also care taken to make it seem as natural as possible. They stress very easily. The same is said about baby sharks.
Once you get past the baby stage, they are amazing and very, very interactive. My friend has several in a lagoon that are like puppydogs. I love visiting them so much. Several of his are two feet across maybe more. I can't really see them being happy in a tank of any size honestly.
That brings up the other part, given that they are so personable and you get very attached to them, what happens if you can't upgrade? There are very few places set up to accept them or that can if they have been in the pet market.
Just a few thoughts.
 
hinesassociates

hinesassociates

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLDreef http:///t/388855/ray-shark-tank-help-please#post_3432387
As long as you have a plan in place for what to do with the rays should they get too large and you can't provide them with a larger tank, than I fully see where you're coming from. Large tanks are a big upfront investment.
I don't know much about the care of rays other than tank requirements, etc. But if you can find a small healthy specimen, that might be your best option.
Thanks. Yea I will be looking for a small one. Do you know how to tell if they are more healthy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartorl http:///t/388855/ray-shark-tank-help-please#post_3432393
PM Meowzer, or hopefully she will post here. She had a ray that outgrew her 250 within a year I think.
I have never owned a saltwater ray. But, I have many collector friends and have been around them a lot. There is a super high mortality rate amongst the young ones. Getting them to eat in an artificial environment can be very hard. The system would without a doubt need to be very established and also care taken to make it seem as natural as possible. They stress very easily. The same is said about baby sharks.
Once you get past the baby stage, they are amazing and very, very interactive. My friend has several in a lagoon that are like puppydogs. I love visiting them so much. Several of his are two feet across maybe more. I can't really see them being happy in a tank of any size honestly.
That brings up the other part, given that they are so personable and you get very attached to them, what happens if you can't upgrade? There are very few places set up to accept them or that can if they have been in the pet market.
Just a few thoughts.
Thanks for all the info. I have heard the same thing about the mortality, and it really is sad. I will PM Meowzer (thanks for her info).
Thats pretty cool that he has a lagoon. Makes me a bit jealous. I have a friend with a pet shop (who also does tank set up's for high end clients) If they get too big he said he could find a home for them. Though I will be planning on getting that 2-300 gal. if they live long enough to need it. Thanks again for the help!
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
WELL.....Personally.....I would not put a ray of any size in that small a tank.....I do not believe in trial or error
A ray is not hard to keep if you have a suitable environment....YES...I had 1 ray....I have a 225G tank....and it was a cortez (supposed to be a smaller breed HAH) it was about 3" round when I got it
WITHIN a year it was 12" round and and 17" long.......WAY TOO BIG for a 225G.......I ended up donating mine to an aquarium in Tulsa OK.....broke my heart. I hand fed her and she was amazing
HERE IS MY OPINION.....DO NOT put a ray in anything less then a 300G tank......I think longer is better....BUT they do like to travel up and down the walls of your tank...A SECURE TOP is also vital.....mine jumped one night....scared the crap outta me too.....I almost want to say don't do one at all.....to see them swim around in a confined space is really sad after a while :(
NOW IF YOU DECIDE TO......the soft sand is good....I would do a 2" sand bed.....they have to be able to fluff the sand over them....they spend a lot of time buried.....I WOULD NOT put 2 of any size in an 80G though
good filtration is a must....they poop a lot....LOL....I fed mine raw shrimp and scallops from the freezer section in Walmart.....as I said....by hand....I taught her to come to me when I put my hand at the top of the tank.....
I think you should really really think about this.....IMO Rays do not belong in standard home aquariums.....ponds, lagoons ...maybe....BIG ONES THOUGH.....LOL
Hope that helps you some
 
hinesassociates

hinesassociates

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///t/388855/ray-shark-tank-help-please#post_3432425
WELL.....Personally.....I would not put a ray of any size in that small a tank.....I do not believe in trial or error
A ray is not hard to keep if you have a suitable environment....YES...I had 1 ray....I have a 225G tank....and it was a cortez (supposed to be a smaller breed HAH) it was about 3" round when I got it
WITHIN a year it was 12" round and and 17" long.......WAY TOO BIG for a 225G.......I ended up donating mine to an aquarium in Tulsa OK.....broke my heart. I hand fed her and she was amazing
HERE IS MY OPINION.....DO NOT put a ray in anything less then a 300G tank......I think longer is better....BUT they do like to travel up and down the walls of your tank...A SECURE TOP is also vital.....mine jumped one night....scared the crap outta me too.....I almost want to say don't do one at all.....to see them swim around in a confined space is really sad after a while :(
NOW IF YOU DECIDE TO......the soft sand is good....I would do a 2" sand bed.....they have to be able to fluff the sand over them....they spend a lot of time buried.....I WOULD NOT put 2 of any size in an 80G though
good filtration is a must....they poop a lot....LOL....I fed mine raw shrimp and scallops from the freezer section in Walmart.....as I said....by hand....I taught her to come to me when I put my hand at the top of the tank.....
I think you should really really think about this.....IMO Rays do not belong in standard home aquariums.....ponds, lagoons ...maybe....BIG ONES THOUGH.....LOL
Hope that helps you some
Thanks for responding!!! Ok I have talked to my friend (who has a 300 gal) and he has said that if it gets bigger than 5-6" before I get my new tank up he will house it for me until I do. This is his spare tank and right now only has a cleaning crew until he figures out what to do with it so I guess I lucked out with it being empty. Also I have decided at month 3 or the 5-6" mark whichever comes first that I will order my new tank... which may end up being a 300 based on your suggestions. I have also decided to just get the one ray per your suggestions.
Thanks for the info on the sand and filtration. Right now I have an ASM G1 skimmer that I was just given yesterday. This will of course need to be upgraded with the new tank. But do you think it will be sufficient filtration for my 80? If not what would you suggest adding? Also I have a ton of live rock (that will be in the sump with the pump and skimmer). Also was it difficult to get her to eat at first? I have heard it can be...
Thanks again for all your help. (also I am not ignoring the line about the rays not belonging in standard aquariums). I am a diver as well and personally I love to see them in their natural home, but I am under the impression that if they are well cared for that they can be happy. Though with rays maybe that tank would need to be huge... :)
Please let me know if you think of any other tips for care as well.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
You can put live rock in the main tank....just make like 2 islands....and leave lots of "beach" area....ALSO make sure the rock you put in is sturdy and smooth....you never want anything sharp
Mine was always willing to eat....first I would bury a piece of shrimp in the sand...then as I got more comfortable....when she was swimming up and down the glass, I held a piece against it and she ate it.....after doing that a few times....she alway came to me for her food
IDK much about that skimmer....will have to look it up I guess....JUST MAKE SURE your water parameters are good
AND where it is good to keep Amquel on hand....DO NOT depend on using it to keep your water ok.....good maintenance and regular water changes is what you need to do
ARE there any other fish or inverts in this tank?
 
hinesassociates

hinesassociates

New Member
My thought on the rock was kinda 2 fold. First I want my ray to have as much room in the tank as possible. Also I kinda enjoy the minimal just sand and ray look. But I may start to think it looks stark and put some in the tank if it wont hurt them.
Thats cool that yours was eating without much coaxing. I have heard its tough when they are young. Maybe a breed thing though. How often did you feed it?
Luckily I am diligent at water changes and have a friend who is a wizard at getting levels right (and he is one room over from me...). But I will remember not to rely too heavily on it.
Umm... other fish... kinda depends. I wanted to have 2 rays and 1 shark, but I keep getting told I am crazy for even considering it... so I dont really know yet. I guess at first it will probably be just the 1 ray unless you think its safe to add another or the shark. Other than that I will have crabs in the sump with the rock and probably sand sifter stars and some snails for cleaning purposes. I was also toying around with the idea of a flat fish like a flounder, but i dont know. I really wanted it to be a shark/ray exclusive tank. What are your thoughts on this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///t/388855/ray-shark-tank-help-please#post_3432587
You can put live rock in the main tank....just make like 2 islands....and leave lots of "beach" area....ALSO make sure the rock you put in is sturdy and smooth....you never want anything sharp
Mine was always willing to eat....first I would bury a piece of shrimp in the sand...then as I got more comfortable....when she was swimming up and down the glass, I held a piece against it and she ate it.....after doing that a few times....she alway came to me for her food
IDK much about that skimmer....will have to look it up I guess....JUST MAKE SURE your water parameters are good
AND where it is good to keep Amquel on hand....DO NOT depend on using it to keep your water ok.....good maintenance and regular water changes is what you need to do
ARE there any other fish or inverts in this tank?
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
I think yo ucan add a few few with him.....no tangs or picker fish...LOL...maybe a couple of clowns, or blue reef chromis....
you will see how much the ray stays buried, and it will just look like you have an empty tank...LOL....I would put a small amount of rock in the tank for these fish (if you were to get any) LOL
I fed her everymorning.....and sometimes a snack at night....
 
hinesassociates

hinesassociates

New Member
haha... ah the empty tank look. Ok. Well I will look into it. I still got a few months before I will be buying any fish really. I am hoping to get water in the tank by monday... Ive been told lighting is low on the priority for rays. I have some T5 Ballasts that I am going to throw over it, but what bulbs would you suggest using for them? Also do you use anything other than a protein skimmer and live rock type filtering? Some people have said UV filtering and refugium and possibly a nitrate reaction filters. I dont want to go crazy with the equipment, but I do want to be responsible and get what I need.
 
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