Reef Tank?? Fish Only tank??

danedodger

Member
Just chiming in in case anything got missed in previous replies :joy:
1. No, you don't NEED a sump exactly but it is one choice you could make for filtration. My advice on that is look into ALL kinds of filtration before you decide because this is a MAJOR piece to your success in the hobby.
2. I agree wholeheartedly with Bonebreak. That is NOT a good price for that setup not to mention that once you learn about the different things you can put in and on a tank you might not be happy with the stuff that's on there. You CAN cycle with a damsel but I don't recommend it. It's dangerous to the fish to cycle with it, there's the aggressiveness problem that you've already heard about with damsels, and there are much better ways to cycle the tank. The best way to cycle a tank, from my own experience, is once you get it all set up with water and such (and yes, use RO/DI water and save yourself a bigger algae hassle down the line) just plop a regular old peeled raw shrimp like you get to cook for dinner in. As it decays it will raise the ammonia levels in your tank which starts the cycle. Once your ammonia levels have reached 0, nitrites 0, and your nitrates are up do a partial water change to bring the nitrate levels back down and you'll be ready for liverock or a fish or two without any danger to anything live. And there ARE better deals on liverock out there.
3. Liverock - You can actually cycle a tank with good liverock. It will also raise the ammonia levels to start the cycle like a fish or raw shrimp will do. If you decide to cycle with liverock though you'll have to watch that your ammonia levels don't get TOO high or the ammonia just ends up killing whatever was live on the rock making it a waste of your money.
Liverock will always get something growing on it but what it is depends on the quality of rock and sheer luck. Eventually you'll at least get some good corraline algae growing from it. Sometimes you'll get what's called a "hitchiker" with your liverock. Some hitchikers are good and some are not! Aptasia is one type of hitchiker which isn't uncommon with liverock which is bad. They're little anemones that are not welcome in a tank and will quickly reproduce and take over unless you take the time to search them out before they really get out of hand and kill them off. Bristleworms are another common hitchiker. If you ask me they're creepy and ugly as anything but they're generally harmless and will come out at night to eat bits of detrious and stuff so they may actually be helpful to your tank. Copepods are another common hitchiker and these guys are really good to have! They generally come out at night and look like tiny little specks or fleas on your glass. They're a good food source for many of your tank inhabitants and an absolute must have for a few of them like the mandarinfish!
4. That stringy algae you saw might or might not be ok depending on what kind of algae it is. I wouldn't buy anything that had that on it and especially not rock with black gunk on it. A very general, crude rule of thumb I use if I don't know is if it looks plantlike then probably the worst it can do is grow all over the tank and be a pain in the keister. If it doesn't look plantlike, especially if it's slimy, "snotty" looking in any way steer clear of it!
5. I'd guess the price of those corals might be a decent deal depending on what type of corals they are. I just paid about $22 each for a piece of rock with some mushrooms and another with flower leather with a featherduster attached. You certainly can get some better deals though like trading or buying coral frags from other hobbyists. Who knows? By the time you're ready to start adding this sort of stuff my wee little shrooms and flower leather might be ready to frag and I'll send you a few to get started with

6. Nope, an anemone isn't a coral. It's a whole different critter
The invertebrate animals are usually harder to keep than the fish. First cycle the tank then depending on how big a tank you get put a few fish in and then once you're doing well taking care of all of that, your levels are good, you've got a good schedule in place for partial water changes and such, and you've conquered the almost inevitable algae outbreak (usually at least 6 months to a year or so) start looking into invert type guys.
 

milomlo

Active Member
Dane and Lege,
Thank you so much for the information. I am reading and asking alot of questions. I am hoping to get a tank between 55-75 gal. So I will let you know when that happens. Let me ask you this. I found someone who has 65 gal w/ Oak stand, canopy, light and filter Eheim 2217 $200 48x13x24. Is this a good price for this? Is this filter good and all I will need or would I be better off to purchase everything seperate? Is this a good filter and what other filter would you suggest if more is needed?
 

reefermon

Member
My first reef tank, was a 150 gallon. I have had that setup and doing great for 1 year now, I am in th middle of getting a 240 gallon this weekend, so I would say start big
 

danedodger

Member
I'm not sure what kind of filter that is or how good it is (maybe a cannister filter?) but with or without it that sounds like a GREAT price for everything else!! Be a very careful, smart shopper with used goods though!!! Find out if there has ever, even once, been any copper treatments in that tank (if there has been you can likely never keep corals and such alive in it again so would be a bad buy for you maybe) and check for any leaks, even small ones can be disasterous!
Supplemental filtration if you use the Eheim could be cannister, protein skimmer, power filter, or sump basically (unless I'm forgetting some?). See what others have to say about the Eheim. It seems most people tend to prefer a good protein skimmer and sump. If the Eheim is any good and rated high enough for 65 gallons or more you could probably use it then benefit from just adding a good skimmer.
 

danedodger

Member
Looks like it'd do the job to me but opinions on cannisters seem to vary
I run a cannister and like it. Personally I'd say if the tank turns out to be copper and leak free, consider going for it! Even if you end up not liking the Eheim it sounds like a decent buy and you can always add another filter to help or replace the Eheim.
Oh and btw, if you're still around on the boards you might want to edit that link out. The folks that run this website don't like competitors urls showing up on the boards
Just thought I'd give ya a friendly heads up before a moderator shows up to take the link out for you
If you've already left the mods are sweet about a first time mistake though
 

milomlo

Active Member
Thank you for the heads up! His add states that it is NEW only 3 months old and is running. So I will ask just to be safe
 

danedodger

Member
Sounds great! But keep in mind that you can afford to be picky too! If ANYTHING about this one doesn't sit right with you hold off!!! Another good deal will come along, maybe even better!
Keep us updated on how it's going!
 

milomlo

Active Member
Dane,
How can I PM you? I have another deal that needs some looking into. I thought I could send you pics and you could give me your honest opinion on the deal.
 

fishmamma

Active Member
HI! I just wanted to say that you are getting some great advice, some of the books from the library may be out dated or a method that is OK, but not the best. Many of us have learned the hard way (I used tap to set up my first tank- couldn't keep an invert alive in it), all good now- but I shouldn't have listened to the guy at a crappy LFS. If you can find an LFS that asks what you have in your tank when you want to buy something you are at the right place, if not go home and research before any buy. Also, since you seem very excited to go reef you can add some mushrooms pretty early on (once tank has cycled) and begin your 'reef experience' while deciding on fish and inverts.
One last thing, definatly plan on a good protein skimmer when the funds are available and the deflector/rotator attachments that slip on the output of powerheads are great for reef tanks and they run around $18.00.
:jumping: :cheer: :happyfish :jumping: :happyfish
 

danedodger

Member
Heya, Fishmama
!
Milomlo, Fishmama is one of the folks around this board who really knows where her towel is at (geeky reference roughly meaning "she knows what's going on and has it together"
). Maybe she'd agree to offer her opinions in PM too? The more opinions you get the better!!
 

milomlo

Active Member
Yes! I am so wanting opinions. I have sent you a couple of emails with pics so please give me your opinion.
 

danedodger

Member
Gotchur emails and just replied

If you want more opinions on your three buying options pics are allowed on the board. You could put em up with the info on each and see what anyone else here thinks.
 

legendary

New Member
mil i would like to see the deal your getting, also have you picked 1 yet, Well done DANE some ppl on this site give really good info i like that.... keep up the good work
 

milomlo

Active Member
OK here goes. Here are the two deals I am looking at. I think I am leaning more towards the 65 gal. Mostly due to financial reasons.
1) -65/g All Glass, NOT REEF READY, Oak, dimension 48x13x24, stand, glass top, light.
-Eheim 2217 (purchased with tank) $200
I am not sure what lights come with this, I am waiting on a response
2) -120 gal tank,canopy, overflow, wet-dry filter and bioballs. the wetdry is a sealife system. 12"widex28"longx16"tall. Tank is 60"longx18-1/2"widex26"tall.The canopy is made by myself and not stained yet. the canopy is open in the back.
that is the front of the canopy in the picture.It opens from the bottom up. The whole front opens.It sits right down on the tank.Made from paneling.
No fans or lights included. I could throw in a aq-6000 (aquaglobe). I will also throw in a seaclone 150. $275

I have tried to put pictures in here. I am not sure if it will work. If not I will try something else...

Opinions please.... I know that the 120 has to be an awesome deal however I am not sure how much more money I would have to put into it to get it ready for reef setup.
Also I was thinking of an undergravel filter system. What do you recommend for this or do you? I have read that newbies should definately have an undergravel as it cuts down or some sort of bacteria or something.
OPINIONS ANYONE??? ***)


 

danedodger

Member
Awww thanks, legendary. I love helping people with all kinds of critters! Sometimes I get it wrong though which only goes to show you that no matter how well intended someone is you should always double check what they have to say!
Let's try comparing the two...
1. On either one you'll probably want to invest in a good protein skimmer (the SeaClone on the one is about worthless, IMO)
2. Does the 120 come with a stand or just the canopy? If it doesn't that's one thing you'd probably have to invest in for it but if you know someone really handy you could cut the cost of it by having them build you one.
3. If the lights on the 65 are good enough that'll be one less thing to buy but if they're only flourescents or something you'll have to invest in lighting on either one of them. Upgraded lighting is one thing that you can wait to buy down the line though. To start the tank you'll just have fish and liverock which don't have any particular lighting requirements.
Anything else y'all can come up with?
On the undergravel filter, some people do use them but I'm personally against using them in saltwater and/or larger tanks. With an undergravel you would have to use crushed coral because sand would just fall through the bottom plate so no sand beds for you! Little bits of food, fish poop, and assorted detrious will also fall through the cracks in the substrate and down beneath the plate. All that organic matter trapped under there rotting away can be a problem. The only solution to this I've heard so far is to push the crushed coral away from the lift tubes, yank out the lift tubes, then use a small tube to siphon beneath the plate regularly. Sounds like a pain in the tush to me especially when there's other perfectly good filter choices out there.
 

milomlo

Active Member
Hey Guys thanks alot! All of your information is just being soaked up like a sponge

I really appreciate all of your help. Actually I haven't decided on anything yet. I am still trying to figure it all out. I am taking Danes advice and not just jumping into it.
 

danedodger

Member
Woohoo, milomlo
:cheer:
:cheer: Taking the time to make the best decisions you can along the way will save you a lot of headaches!!! I'm really happy to find someone willing to take the time to figure everything out before just jumping in feet first! You're way ahead of the game on that score! :jumping:
I just noticed you're in Houston. We're practically neighbors! There's a nice saltwater club in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that you may be interested in. They seem to be good, knowledgable folks who could probably give you some great info! Let me know if you'd like some info on them and I'll email it to you.
 
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