reef tanks???? pros, please help..

[theishkid]

Ok this is exactly what I've been talking about. No one gives you a straight answer because everyone is affraid that the guy that knows more is gonna come down on them. Just because you post 1700 times doesn't mean you are more knowledgeable then a guy that has been doing this for over 30 years (not me). It might mean you like to talk alot. Or in the case of a lot of forums... it could just mean you like to see the number rise on how many post you have. Not that you're doing it... I haven't seen that here... but on my fordtruckworld forum I can name a few that do.
Like I said I don't know about skimmers, I don't have one, never had. I don't know what they do. Will my tank be more successful with one? I don't know.
As far as the LFS... I've never seen or met anyone with as much knowledge (other than the books) then this guy that is giving me advice. He is not just sticking to what he knows. Like I said before... wet/dry filters and skimmers have come and gone. This meaning they used to run them and now they do not. Instead all tanks are replaced with Marinland 3 stage biological filtration now.
Sorry zanemoseley that we got into this "pissing contest". Things like this are not in my daily agenda and if you'd like to reply feel free... I won't mention anything else about skimmers after you do. As I am officially dehydrated now. I'm just trying to help someone else enjoy our hobby and enjoy the same successes we have.

 

[mujtba]

well a pissing contest wont be the same unless im a part of it. :hilarious
anyhow, im sure you guys both are right in some way. zane, skimmers probably do have their good side, but wont they remove natural proteins?
you also said that theishkids LFS probably stuck with what they did because they do not like change. Well in 30 years, how much does the ocean life change? Probably close to nothing. It would take millions of years for a real change. So if that man has been doing a successfull reef for 30 years without a skimmer, it only means one thing, it can be done. Because ocean life still is the same 100 years ago as it it today. Human babies still need milk at infancy 1000 years ago, as they do today.
theishkid- im gona try out your way for now. I will also get a book and check out more things. If you still didnt get a chance to look at my Tetratec PF500 Power Filter, here is what it does:
The Tetratec Advantage
1.Living Filter Chamber
-Fills with water and then empties back into the aquarium.
-Alternately exposes large surface area of Bio-Foam and beneficial bacteria to aquarium water and then oxygen.
-Becomes a Living Filter that breathes and removes ammonia and nitrites.
2.Tidal Flow Alternating Flow Return
-Returns water from the Living Filter Chamber back to the aquarium.
-Pulses on and off, creating an alternating current in the aquarium.
3.Directional Flow Return
-Continuously returns water from the Living Filter Chamber back to the aquarium.
-Agitates the water surface to improve oxygen exchange.
4.Adjustable Flow Control
-Allows slow flow at feeding time.
-Prevents wasteful overloading of filter with fish food.
So since you are running a successful tank for over a year with just hang on filters, I will try it with mines and about 75lbs of LR. I know people say to get a wet/dry online for cheap, but a wet/dry does bio filtration. Thats the same thing the live rock does itself, and naturally at that.
And I cant believe how no 2 people have the same opinion. People with so many years of experience just say to get a book and try it out. So no one is a SW tank guru. I guess I will take that job once Im experienced.
I guess i can invest in a $40 skimmer or something if I need it. But Id like to keep my filter, get say 60lbs of LR and a skimmer and should that be enough?
Also, for freshwater, to remove chlorine, you just add STRESS COAT, and it fixes the water. So for SW fish, can I just add the same to dechlorinate the tap water? ANyone have experience with that?
thanks all and post your experiences..

 

[mujtba]

what does LR do? its a bio filter. What does a wet/dry do? Its a bio filter. Why do you need both? My hang on filter, would be remove wastes and particles from the water as it does with the freshwater. All fish go to the bathroom. Does a wet/dry filter remove wastes? Its aim is BIOFILTRATION. If I had that and LR, its the same thing. A skimmer I can understand and I have no problem to invest in one. But you are telling me my filter is useless and only a wet/dry works? Have you had experience with a hang on for SW or are you just telling me it wont work because you had to buy a wet/dry from the start?
theiskid has his hang on filters for over a year, and he is working fine. What do you have to say about that?
theiskid, please post your tank photos...

 

[cbshark]

Hey mujtba, first off, if you are too lazy to research and do what people on this board are recommending, don't even attempt a reef. You are not going to learn everything in one post and you shouldn't expect to come to this site and have people bow to your every wish and desire the first time you post. Second, you are way too inexperienced to start with a reef. Try a fish only tank to get the hang of saltwater, then after you have learned the complexities of the marine aquarium and experienced the disappointments of livestock dying, try a reef if you still have it in you. Other people can say what they want, but your equipment just won't cut it for a reef. If a reef is something you really want, spend the money and do it right. If you really make 50,000 a year, this should be no problem. If you have all your money tied up in other hobbies or whatever and you just want a reef to add to your "look at me and all my cool stuff" collection, I think you are in it for the wrong reason. I don't make that much money and I have a family, house, car, etc and I make it work. If it's something you have passion for, which I don't think is your case, you find a way to make it happen. Maybe I have read wrongly into your posts, but you seem to have a real attitude towards the people that are trying to help you, this is probably why the more knowledgeable members of this board have yet to comment on anything. Reef tanks, and saltwater in general are very touchy animals to the inexperienced aquarist. To me and other experienced hobbyists, it seems very easy, but I guarantee you that every one of us has multiple nightmare stories to tell about when we first started out. When I started, I didn't have this site to reference, and I made many a mistake and lost hundreds of dollars in fish and such. i can assure you that you will probably have no better luck starting out either. It is like anything else, it takes time, patience, research and experience to succeed. If I am correct about you, you probably aren't willing to give any of these a chance and will in the end succeed only in killing livestock and giving up. I am in no way and expert, but with help from users on this board and READING BOOKS, I went from a fish only tank to a 5 gallon nano to a 10 gallon nano and finally to transforming my 125 gallon shark tank into a beautiful succesful reef tank. All this took only about 3 years of learning, with about 10 years of freshwater and fish only marine experience. This is not a hobby for the impatient person. IT TAKES TIME and alot of effort. But if you really want it, it is worth all the money you put into it. Look man, do it right and be courteous to the people that are trying ot help you or don't do it at all.
Also, as far as your Kerry comment, how can you say "hopefully Kerry will get elected and he will open up better jobs"? If you are making 50 grand a year, what in the heck are you expecting he's going to open up? Wake up and realize that he and all his kind only tell you what you want to hear. If you are young and conservative, you have no heart, if you are grown and liberal, you have no brain.

 

[kistheeze]

Originally posted by CBSHARK
If you are young and conservative, you have no heart, if you are grown and liberal, you have no brain.
That's probably the most thought provoking statement I've read this month.
Good one.

 

[theishkid]

man this is the most fun I've ever had on a message board. I'm leaving work now and I gotta make a quick stop but I'll take a picture in an hour or so when i get home.

 

[mujtba]

CBSshark, what the hell is your problem? Did your girl just leave you? You claim I got attitudes, yet in EVERY ONE OF MY POSTS, I am thanking everyone, saying please this or that...
You somehow decide to post your 2 cents and start going off. Go to hell. Ya I make $50K a year. I take care of my parents and my wife. I have been doing freshwater fish for 9 years now. In case you didnt read all my posts, I said 'I STARTED SALTWATER FOR A FEW WEEKS, BUT THEN WENT BACK TO FRESHWATER' because it was too expensive. Why don't you search my username to see how many posts I have here and see how much research I did.
Whenever I ask a question, I get the 'go buy a book and do research'. Well is me asking a questing BEFORE I BUY considered doing research? Or is doing research in your diminutive brain just going and getting a book. You think I am going to purchase it all with just this post? I am a college graduate. I am a web developer right now. So where do you come off calling me names and you have your lil quote to make yourself look smart.
Go back to school. I am not here to debate with people like you. You didnt even have to post your ridiculous comments. Just keep your 2 cents to yourself.
How do you come off saying Im really not into it and I just want to showoff to my friends? Your assumption? Haha.. I hope your not a voter. You seem young and foolish. Maybe in your crowd, you need to show boat. Not with me. My mother is a fan of reefs. I am asking for HELP from people who did this already to see what to do. Sure I can go buy a book, but whats better? Asking someone who did it, or just reading? When you go to a training school is hands on better or just reading a book?
Im done with your remarks along with magics. Cheap, you think taking care of 3 people is cheap and paying

[hr]
? Your 14, so I wont get into this. You age speaks for itself.
theishkid, please post your pics. Im not gonna bother with all these other kids. They seem to be going against everything you said even..

 

[cbshark]

I'm sorry, but i just can't leave this alone. Nobody says a wet/dry is the only way of doing it. I do know that a HOB filter will work for a nano reef (29 galls and smaller) but it just won't cut it for larger. It really seems that you are trying to do this on the cheap. If you want to know what IS best, try a refugium instead of a wet/dry. Do a search on this board for some info. The whole point of the wet/dry is bio filtration with mechanical filtration done by the pre-filter and other sponge filters. The problem with a wet/dry and LR is that they are competing for usage of bio waste and one will eventually suffer. I had a wet/dry and removed the bio balls and turned it into a refugium and added plenty of LR. Ths made a world of difference to the quality of my tank. I am not going to get into the refugium design because you can do a search and find it yourself. There are many ways to skin a cat and if you aren't willing to research for the best way for you, you are wasting time, yours and ours. Just because one person has success with a certain filter, doesn't mean it is the best way. No disrespect theiskid, but we have no way to judge what his idea of success is. can guarantee that even if his tank is nice, it is in no way nearly as good as some of the people on this board that utilize advanced filtration systems that people are recommending to you. Check out post by stevewest. I highly doubt his 850 gallon tank would last a week with 100 HOB filters and no skimmer. In my opinion, a skimmer is absolutley necessary. Yes, filters can remove much of the same waste, but listen to what I just said. MUCH of the same waste. You will never remove what a skimmer can with a power filter. Even if you could get close, a skimmer makes filtration WAY more efficient. As long as you do water changes and test regularly and dose as required, a skimmer will never remove natural proteins enough to make them a bad thing. Speaking of my last statement, i bet you don't even know about testing and dosing, do you? Probably something you never thought of, huh? Again, thoroughly search this site before you get started, and you can learn everything you ever wanted or needed to learn about reef tanks. It is well worth the time. Although with the attitude you display here, the only info you will ever get here is by searching, nobody will want to reply to you for fear of being berrated.

 

[cbshark]

22 posts does not a researcher make. Obviously, the truth hurts...real bad!

 

[mujtba]

CGSHARK, like i said in my last post, its me who is asking politly and thanking everyone for taking the TIME TO POST. you are the one who barged in uninvited to go off on me.. was that necessary? I will assume you are just as young as magic. Its you who carries the attitude and remarks.
I said earlied I have no problem investing in a skimmer.
But theiskid said his LFS has been doing it for 30 years. You seem like the type of person who will slit their throat also for not doing the same thing you are doing..
How about coming down to earth and realizing that it can be done successfully in more than one way.. not just your way.
you seem like a very abusive controlling person shark.. your name suits you.. yes 22 posts and when everyone told me the price, i went back to freshwater and am now back trying to do sw. yes thats a researcher... i read many online articles.. heres one of the top of my head: http://www.bestfish.com/tips/112698.html

 

[cbshark]

Typical left winger, you get criticized and you let the unwarranted, unfounded personal attacks fly.

 

[cbshark]

Magic_Carp, well said. Even for a young, stupid moron, who couldn't possibly know his butt from a hole in the ground.

Keep up the good work and give em hell.

 

[mujtba]

magic, wow your age speaks for itself..
CHEAP: to have money but deciding to not spend it...
now in my case, i said I am taking care of my parents and have a wife.. I didnt say my parents are providing for me.. i said I AM THE MAN OF THE HOUSE.. I take care of 3 people.
can you comprehend that?
it was YOU who decided to start calling me names.. I countered it, and you fell apart..
again, your 14 so I wont stoop that low. in case you didnt read my earlied posts, i did thank you for your opinions.
it was AFTER you called me cheap, i attacked you..
wow, this is sure an interesting board.. I debated in college a lot, so I can go at this all day..
But I wont bother untill I read something aboit SW again.. and not about lame things like im cheap.. You want me to pay for a reef and not my

[hr]
? im searchin for the BEST most affordable way to do this..
you seem to be unable to understant that.

 

[rossim]

Originally posted by mujtba
CGSHARK, like i said in my last post, its me who is asking politly and thanking everyone for taking the TIME TO POST. you are the one who barged in uninvited to go off on me.. was that necessary? I will assume you are just as young as magic. Its you who carries the attitude and remarks.

You're questions really aren't coming across as being polite. It sounds to me like you've already made up your mind as to what you are going to do. You basically bash the advice given by some members and just ask for proof that the way you want to do it will work.
And if you have to "invite" people to answer your questions, they'll never get answered.

 

[mujtba]

haha magic, you seem to be reading through the lines... im not gona argue with you. your missing the target.. its okay.
im politly asking questiongs when all a sudden rude shark decides to post his 2 cents and then to follow his lead, you post your obsurd comments.
Rossim, I posted that AFTER I was bashed.. i was all polite before shark decided to JAW in... thats when I countered.. how about seeing 2 sides of the story.
thanks you all who actually helped..

 

[rossim]

Originally posted by mujtba
But I wont bother untill I read something aboit SW again.. and not about lame things like im cheap.. You want me to pay for a reef and not my

[hr]
? im searchin for the BEST most affordable way to do this..
Depending on your budget, you may want to start with a nano tank. They are a lot harder to maintain, but will cost less to set up. There are a lot of ways to make this hobby work and have it not break the bank. Look at the classified sections of this forum and the newspaper for used equipment. Also, join a local reef club and buy frags from other members. I was at the lfs the other day and between my uncle and myself spent $230 on 3 small corals. It is an expensive hobby.

 

[mujtba]

wow magic, you really are missng the mark... take my comments to your teacher and ask them if it was directed towards you and if I started this shirade..

 

[mujtba]

magic.. now we all see why you must be a certain age to drive and vote..
anyhow, let me clarify things with you..
i have no problem with your age.. you called me cheap so i said you are young and do not understand where I am coming from.. i said I am taking care of 3 people, and you said Im cheap and living with my parents..
therefore, I called you young, because naturally young people dont understand many things.. im not that old, im only 28, but only with age comes wisdom.. thats just a fact of life..
again, magic, i have nothing against your age...
my neice is 3..

 

[rossim]

https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/125589/good-fish-to-jump-start-a-cycle
You said in this post that you did have a protien skimmer. And what happened to all your fish?

 

[mujtba]

rossim, I had a wet/dry hang one with a skimmer. i only had it for 2 weeks, but I wanted a reef, heard it was too expensive, so I went back to freshwater. i traded all my fish back to the store.
now i really want a reef. i mean ill do it slowly. but still, i am just looking for the best way for me.
initially my goal was a reef, but the price scared me. everyone kept sayin u need to spend about $3000 for a sucessfull reef.
thats not how you lure people into something..