Refugium or Skimmer

mproctor4

mproctor4

Member
The goal is to reduce nitrates. I have a birthday coming up and can only get ONE---would you recommend a good skimmer or a refugium? I have a high bioload and feed heavily. I set up a algae turf scrubber about 4 months ago, the nitrates have dropped a small amount, but nothing significant yet. I would like to keep the ATS because the tank does look much cleaner with it and I am hoping it will eventually help with nitrates. Everything in the tank looks great so the other option is to forget the equipment for the tank and ask for an old lady bicycle
Any thoughts?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
I have always run a skimmer and I had nitrate problems, skimmers don't really do anything for nitrates. I set up a refugium and it takes a very long time for those to be any real use for nitrates. It does give copepods a great place to breed.
The only cure for nitrates are water changes or vodka dosing (very risky) Someday I will get the aquaripure nitrate filter, it sounds like it might actually work. It is vodka dosing but in a much safer way.
 
slice

slice

Active Member
I'm not good at either/or questions, I much prefer both/and.
FWIW
I run an HOB skimmer/fuge combo by CPR. It only took about a month (with copious amounts of chaeto) to get my nitrates from ~20 down to undetectable. That was back in October, have not seen a nitrate reading since.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice http:///forum/thread/385397/refugium-or-skimmer#post_3379500
I'm not good at either/or questions, I much prefer both/and.
FWIW
I run an HOB skimmer/fuge combo by CPR. It only took about a month (with copious amounts of chaeto) to get my nitrates from ~20 down to undetectable. That was back in October, have not seen a nitrate reading since.
LOL....Someday I may actually get macoalgae to grow in my 90g tanks refugium..I have no room for a light down there. I played with a couple of ideas but to date nothing works.
I do have macros for the SH tank and my nitrates are at 0, so I'm glad you brought it up. I was thinking on the terms OP had asked about...refugiums and skimmers, so I thought of the aquaripure vodka dosing gizmo. Funny, my mind can take a certain direction and have tunnel vision.
 
mproctor4

mproctor4

Member
Hhhmmmm....I have chaeto growing out of my eyeballs and still haven't noticed a difference in the nitrates. My ATS is in my sump and I never got around to removing the chaeto so it has light 18 hours a day, it is going crazy now. I have been leaning toward the skimmer for two reasons. 1) My sump is large enough for lots of copods to grow 2) hubbie is vodka dosing and having great results with it so far. He was dosing a much smaller than recommended dose in the beginning and very slowly increasing. He had been running a skimmer and nitrates at one point got close to 60. In about 2 1/2 months his nitrates are between 5-10 with vodka. The man who owns our favorite LFS is trying his display tank with vodka and no skimmer, I'm not that brave.
I will have to look into the aquapure nitrate filter. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mproctor4 http:///forum/thread/385397/refugium-or-skimmer#post_3379686
Hhhmmmm....I have chaeto growing out of my eyeballs and still haven't noticed a difference in the nitrates. My ATS is in my sump and I never got around to removing the chaeto so it has light 18 hours a day, it is going crazy now. I have been leaning toward the skimmer for two reasons. 1) My sump is large enough for lots of copods to grow 2) hubbie is vodka dosing and having great results with it so far. He was dosing a much smaller than recommended dose in the beginning and very slowly increasing. He had been running a skimmer and nitrates at one point got close to 60. In about 2 1/2 months his nitrates are between 5-10 with vodka. The man who owns our favorite LFS is trying his display tank with vodka and no skimmer, I'm not that brave.
I will have to look into the aquapure nitrate filter. Thanks for the suggestion.
You have to harvest the macro algae to remove nitrates. That simply means to remove about half of your new growth and give it away or toss it and let it grow again. It absorbs your nitrates and Phosphates to be able to grow, so when it grows remove the new growth and it will regrow absorbing more nitrates and Phosphates. After a few cycles of doing that and you will see the evil NO3 and PO4 drop.
Spanko thinks the Aquapure is a bit off and not to be trusted, he is pretty smart about such things. If your macro is growing do the above before you go and get such a thing. If you do regular water changes, about every 2 weeks you won't need a skimmer, otherwise a skimmer pulls out yuck you can't even test for. So it is a good gadget to have. A refugium is a must if you want a steady supply of copepods and amphipods (live food source).
So getting either a skimmer or refugium is a good buy.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Protein skimmers (qualifying word here is protein) are designed to remove proteins before they are converted to ammonia so their purpose lies there. Preemptive strike so to speak.
On the Chaetomorph, yes constant harvesting will help it to continue to grow and use the ammonia, nitrites and nitrate in the system. If you let it get too big - bunched up then lighting cannot get to the center of the ball and will inhibit growth.
 
mproctor4

mproctor4

Member
I have been harvesting the cheato and I do about 28 gallon water changes every 2 weeks. I've had FOWLR tanks for 25 years now and only once ran a skimmer for a short period of time. Honestly the skimmer was to small for the tank but it pulled alot of gunk out. I had a few soft corals at the time and could never tell a difference in the appearance of the fish or corals. The only reason I am seriously considering a skimmer now is because I am interested in vodka dosing, I want to have the option of getting more difficult corals. I currently have soft, LPS, and a couple of monti, which are doing great.
I had bioballs in my sump (recently replaced by live rock). I suspect they produced nitrates faster than the macroalgea could remove it.
Maybe I just need to be more patient and see if the ATS and removal of the bioballs will help. I have noticed a slight drop of nitrates in the last month. I am not looking for instant results, everything in the tanks is healthy.
It is interesting because I have alot of copods in the tank. The sump is large enough to be a great breading place for them, especially with all the macroalgea and hiding places there, yet I have never seen them in the sump. Everything I have read about the ATS says the copods breed like crazy there (ATS is in the sump) I have a drip tray with filter media the water has to go thru before getting into the sump and I have never seen pods in there either. I am hoping some are in the live rock I just added, otherwise I am going to have to buy some to seed the sump. frustrating. I'm really not convinced that a refugium would do much more than my sump.
Thanks for the advice, I do appreciate your thoughts.
 
btldreef

btldreef

Moderator
Although it's more risky because it can go sexual, I've found Caulerpa prolifera to be one of the best at reducing nitrates, far more than chaeto.
IMO, if you already have chaeto and an ATS, it's time for a protein skimmer.
 
mproctor4

mproctor4

Member
BTLDreef--I have never been able to find Caulerpa around here. I would like to try it. I am leaning much more toware the skimmer----are you listening honey??? hint, hint
 
mproctor4

mproctor4

Member
Flower--I realized I said in a previous post "that I never got around to removing the chaeto". That didn't come out the way I meant, I harvest it, just never removed it altogether from the sump. Even though in theory I shouldn't need it with the ATS, I had plenty of room so I figured it wouldn't hurt to leave it in there.
 
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