Religions Vs. Pork
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darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by Katsafados
http:///forum/post/3189449
Creation I belive in evolution, single celled organisms, evolving through natural selection(survival of the fittest, addapting to surroundings) became an animal or what ever then formed into a human! lol Now I really sound crazzy haha, especially if you have no science background lol. But to me if you look closely we still have animal instincts, there just supressed because of what society says. For example look when women have kids, thy turn like animals, think what would happen if you got inbetween a loving mother and her kid. She'll kill you! Dont animals do that also? Elephants protecting their young.
Cant wait to hear the response now!
ONCE AGAIN WHAT I PERSONALLY THINK, YOU DONT HAVE TO AGREE OR DISAGREE
You are explaining the evolution theory as to how it pertains to creatures. I am referencing and asking from a scientific standpoint how the planets and the solar system were created? I understand the evolution theory pertaining to creatures...actually many christian believe God used this as his tool to create the animals and such...I am referencing the planetary/solar creation though.
http:///forum/post/3189449
Creation I belive in evolution, single celled organisms, evolving through natural selection(survival of the fittest, addapting to surroundings) became an animal or what ever then formed into a human! lol Now I really sound crazzy haha, especially if you have no science background lol. But to me if you look closely we still have animal instincts, there just supressed because of what society says. For example look when women have kids, thy turn like animals, think what would happen if you got inbetween a loving mother and her kid. She'll kill you! Dont animals do that also? Elephants protecting their young.
Cant wait to hear the response now!
ONCE AGAIN WHAT I PERSONALLY THINK, YOU DONT HAVE TO AGREE OR DISAGREE
You are explaining the evolution theory as to how it pertains to creatures. I am referencing and asking from a scientific standpoint how the planets and the solar system were created? I understand the evolution theory pertaining to creatures...actually many christian believe God used this as his tool to create the animals and such...I am referencing the planetary/solar creation though.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3189523
You consider me a democrat, I supported the wars when when they started. Then I found out it was all a sham to get big money, and I wasn't so happy to say the least.
Hold on. Lets touch on the war support. You said you supported both wars BEFORE you found they were about money (which all wars are in the end). I don't understand how someone else's reason for a war can change your mind and and change the reasons you supported the wars in the first place? Afghanistan..how is that war about money and even if it is, how does this change the facts of wehy you supported afghanistan in the first place?
Next...the lies and scare tactics of the far-right....how about these lies from the far left?
1. New Government Run Plan to “Compete” with Private Companies
* Doctor Payments Based on the Medicare Model. Plan would reimburse providers at Medicare payment rates for at least the first three years, with a 5% bonus payment. After that, reimbursement could be no more than Medicare rates. The Secretary of Health and Human Services could coerce doctors to participate in the program by tying participation to other government run health programs.
* Lawsuits. Bill exposes employers operating group health plans to state law remedies and private causes of action, but the government run plan can only be sued in federal court.
* Rationing. A new Health Care Commissioner would have unprecedented authority to determine what is “acceptable” health care coverage and set all the rules for what an health care coverage must include in addition to what treatments patients could receive and at what cost.
* The “Invisible” Government Run Plan. Requires private insurers to comply with new coverage and underwriting rules in order to offer insurance products both inside and outside of the new national and state insurance exchanges.
2. Costs Go Up for the Government and Everyone Else
* CBO Director Elmendorff said on July 16th that, “…the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs… The way I would put it is that the [cost] curve is being raised…”
* Bigger Deficits. CBO estimates that the bill will increase the deficit by $239 billion in the first ten years. Even this is misleading though, since the tax increases in the bill start immediately, but the new spending is delayed. Once the spending fully starts, the bill adds over $60 billion a year to the deficit.
* New Tax on Individuals of 2.5% if they don’t purchase “acceptable coverage.”
* Many Currently Insured Individuals Will Face More Expensive Insurance Premiums based on new rules for “acceptable” insurance coverage.
* Expands Medicaid eligibility to all individuals up to 133% of poverty and “low income” subsidies” can go to a family of four making more than $88,000.
3. Pay or “Play” Employer Mandate
* An 8 percent Payroll Tax on: Employers who can’t afford to offer health insurance to their employees; employers who do the right thing and offer health coverage to their employees but it’s deemed “insufficient” by the government; and employers who aren’t paying at least 72.5% of an employee’s premium (65% for family coverage).
* Fines of up to $500,000 on employers who make an honest mistake, thinking they had provided what the government deemed “sufficient” coverage.
4. If You Like What You Have, You Can Keep It
(This one is the biggest lie....what stops companies from dropping their health coverage (since many of the major companies would save money by just paying the tax imposed) and placing you in the group that now has to buy into the government plan?)
* 2 out of 3 Workers will Lose Coverage. Independent analysis by the Lewin Group shows that 2 out of every 3 people would lose their current coverage, including over 114 million people who receive health benefits through their employer or other current coverage.
* 11 million Seniors will Lose Medicare Advantage Plans
* More than 8 million Health Savings Accounts not deemed “acceptable coverage.”
* It will be Illegal to Renew your Current Health Insurance and you will be left only with plans approved by a new federal regulator—plans that can’t compete with a new government run plan.
5. Raises Taxes on Small Businesses through Surtax Increase
* The Democrats imbedded an automatic tax increase in their bill by doubling the 1% and 1.5% small business tax in 2013 continuing their revenue grab from small businesses.
* Of taxpayers who file in the top brackets more than half of them are small business. The Democrat plan, according to a study by the Tax Foundation, would raise the top tax rate in 39 states to more than 50%.
* According the National Association of Manufactures, an industry hit hard by the economy, 68% of manufactures file as S-corporations with an average income of $570,000, well above the $350,000 base the Democrats have set for the surtax.
http:///forum/post/3189523
You consider me a democrat, I supported the wars when when they started. Then I found out it was all a sham to get big money, and I wasn't so happy to say the least.
Hold on. Lets touch on the war support. You said you supported both wars BEFORE you found they were about money (which all wars are in the end). I don't understand how someone else's reason for a war can change your mind and and change the reasons you supported the wars in the first place? Afghanistan..how is that war about money and even if it is, how does this change the facts of wehy you supported afghanistan in the first place?
Next...the lies and scare tactics of the far-right....how about these lies from the far left?
1. New Government Run Plan to “Compete” with Private Companies
* Doctor Payments Based on the Medicare Model. Plan would reimburse providers at Medicare payment rates for at least the first three years, with a 5% bonus payment. After that, reimbursement could be no more than Medicare rates. The Secretary of Health and Human Services could coerce doctors to participate in the program by tying participation to other government run health programs.
* Lawsuits. Bill exposes employers operating group health plans to state law remedies and private causes of action, but the government run plan can only be sued in federal court.
* Rationing. A new Health Care Commissioner would have unprecedented authority to determine what is “acceptable” health care coverage and set all the rules for what an health care coverage must include in addition to what treatments patients could receive and at what cost.
* The “Invisible” Government Run Plan. Requires private insurers to comply with new coverage and underwriting rules in order to offer insurance products both inside and outside of the new national and state insurance exchanges.
2. Costs Go Up for the Government and Everyone Else
* CBO Director Elmendorff said on July 16th that, “…the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs… The way I would put it is that the [cost] curve is being raised…”
* Bigger Deficits. CBO estimates that the bill will increase the deficit by $239 billion in the first ten years. Even this is misleading though, since the tax increases in the bill start immediately, but the new spending is delayed. Once the spending fully starts, the bill adds over $60 billion a year to the deficit.
* New Tax on Individuals of 2.5% if they don’t purchase “acceptable coverage.”
* Many Currently Insured Individuals Will Face More Expensive Insurance Premiums based on new rules for “acceptable” insurance coverage.
* Expands Medicaid eligibility to all individuals up to 133% of poverty and “low income” subsidies” can go to a family of four making more than $88,000.
3. Pay or “Play” Employer Mandate
* An 8 percent Payroll Tax on: Employers who can’t afford to offer health insurance to their employees; employers who do the right thing and offer health coverage to their employees but it’s deemed “insufficient” by the government; and employers who aren’t paying at least 72.5% of an employee’s premium (65% for family coverage).
* Fines of up to $500,000 on employers who make an honest mistake, thinking they had provided what the government deemed “sufficient” coverage.
4. If You Like What You Have, You Can Keep It
(This one is the biggest lie....what stops companies from dropping their health coverage (since many of the major companies would save money by just paying the tax imposed) and placing you in the group that now has to buy into the government plan?)
* 2 out of 3 Workers will Lose Coverage. Independent analysis by the Lewin Group shows that 2 out of every 3 people would lose their current coverage, including over 114 million people who receive health benefits through their employer or other current coverage.
* 11 million Seniors will Lose Medicare Advantage Plans
* More than 8 million Health Savings Accounts not deemed “acceptable coverage.”
* It will be Illegal to Renew your Current Health Insurance and you will be left only with plans approved by a new federal regulator—plans that can’t compete with a new government run plan.
5. Raises Taxes on Small Businesses through Surtax Increase
* The Democrats imbedded an automatic tax increase in their bill by doubling the 1% and 1.5% small business tax in 2013 continuing their revenue grab from small businesses.
* Of taxpayers who file in the top brackets more than half of them are small business. The Democrat plan, according to a study by the Tax Foundation, would raise the top tax rate in 39 states to more than 50%.
* According the National Association of Manufactures, an industry hit hard by the economy, 68% of manufactures file as S-corporations with an average income of $570,000, well above the $350,000 base the Democrats have set for the surtax.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3189523
I'm sorry, Joe Lieberman is an idiot. I don't care who's side he's on or what he's got to say to anyone about anything. That guy is an absolute flip-flopping moron willing to support the highest bidder and has no business being in office. He only supports what is most beneficial to him at the time and I think he gets off by being so "mavericky" and getting in the paper.
You consider me a democrat, I supported the wars when when they started. Then I found out it was all a sham to get big money, and I wasn't so happy to say the least.
Again, don't get me wrong, in nothing that I stated did I say all conservaties or all anyone. And in nothing that I stated did I even propose that there are not loons on both sides. What I'm saying is that at the moment, the loons who are out there the most are the nutcase right-wingers. Notice I said nutcase right-wingers, not all right-wingers. I'm not generalizing.
Also, I'm not saying the left has not nominated idiots before, I wasn't even talking about that. I wasn't even talking about policy either. I was talking about the political strategies being implemented by some people to further their cause by appealing to ignorant people that can't tell they are being lied to even when facts that prove the lie are held out in front of them. Example. If I'm a politician and I choose to propagate a lie, and I am called out on it, I shouldn't keep propogating that lie and just hoping that people think it's true even though it's been proven false. That is what I have an issue with and it is a practice, I'm sorry to say that may be active in any political party, but is curently the favorite strategy of the right. That's what I meant.
I'm simply pointing out your perceptions are wrong. And looking at results. you post articles lambasting Republicans assigning a faulty liberal stereotype, that some how, the right is this vitriolic closed party, while the democrats are inclusive and accepting that same argument goes on to say that the dems are the mainstream and anyone who disagrees is an extreemist. I'm simply pointing out actual things that have happened, to point out that it is incorrect.
I'm no Liberman fan either, but you CANNOT deny he got kicked out of the democrat party for his support of our troop and the war they are fighting...
http:///forum/post/3189523
I'm sorry, Joe Lieberman is an idiot. I don't care who's side he's on or what he's got to say to anyone about anything. That guy is an absolute flip-flopping moron willing to support the highest bidder and has no business being in office. He only supports what is most beneficial to him at the time and I think he gets off by being so "mavericky" and getting in the paper.
You consider me a democrat, I supported the wars when when they started. Then I found out it was all a sham to get big money, and I wasn't so happy to say the least.
Again, don't get me wrong, in nothing that I stated did I say all conservaties or all anyone. And in nothing that I stated did I even propose that there are not loons on both sides. What I'm saying is that at the moment, the loons who are out there the most are the nutcase right-wingers. Notice I said nutcase right-wingers, not all right-wingers. I'm not generalizing.
Also, I'm not saying the left has not nominated idiots before, I wasn't even talking about that. I wasn't even talking about policy either. I was talking about the political strategies being implemented by some people to further their cause by appealing to ignorant people that can't tell they are being lied to even when facts that prove the lie are held out in front of them. Example. If I'm a politician and I choose to propagate a lie, and I am called out on it, I shouldn't keep propogating that lie and just hoping that people think it's true even though it's been proven false. That is what I have an issue with and it is a practice, I'm sorry to say that may be active in any political party, but is curently the favorite strategy of the right. That's what I meant.
I'm simply pointing out your perceptions are wrong. And looking at results. you post articles lambasting Republicans assigning a faulty liberal stereotype, that some how, the right is this vitriolic closed party, while the democrats are inclusive and accepting that same argument goes on to say that the dems are the mainstream and anyone who disagrees is an extreemist. I'm simply pointing out actual things that have happened, to point out that it is incorrect.
I'm no Liberman fan either, but you CANNOT deny he got kicked out of the democrat party for his support of our troop and the war they are fighting...
soviettaco
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3189534
You are explaining the evolution theory as to how it pertains to creatures. I am referencing and asking from a scientific standpoint how the planets and the solar system were created? I understand the evolution theory pertaining to creatures...actually many christian believe God used this as his tool to create the animals and such...I am referencing the planetary/solar creation though.
How did God become God?
http:///forum/post/3189534
You are explaining the evolution theory as to how it pertains to creatures. I am referencing and asking from a scientific standpoint how the planets and the solar system were created? I understand the evolution theory pertaining to creatures...actually many christian believe God used this as his tool to create the animals and such...I am referencing the planetary/solar creation though.
How did God become God?
soviettaco
Active Member
My point is that we will not know how the universe was formed just as we will never know if god really exists, we can believe and have faith but we cannot know.
This is my opinion choose what you want to belive in, because there is no way around it YOU WILL DIE.
Now either you lived your life as a good christian, a good muslim, a good buddhist, a good jew, and so on or you lived you life as good decent human being who didn't believe in any god or just believed that something or someone created us, heck maybe you belive in aliens or something. BUT YOU CAN NOT GET AROUND THE FACT THAT YOU WILL DIE.
It really doesn't matter what or who you believed in when you were living, it matters if you lived peacefully amongst your neighbors. You will be rewarded by who-ever is the greater being no matter what, so IMO you don't have to believe in a religion to be a good person and if god is real he will understand that. If you lived a good life as a religious person but there is no god then you were a good human being whose acts will be remembered by friends and family and possibly the annals of history.
PEACE!
This is my opinion choose what you want to belive in, because there is no way around it YOU WILL DIE.
Now either you lived your life as a good christian, a good muslim, a good buddhist, a good jew, and so on or you lived you life as good decent human being who didn't believe in any god or just believed that something or someone created us, heck maybe you belive in aliens or something. BUT YOU CAN NOT GET AROUND THE FACT THAT YOU WILL DIE.
It really doesn't matter what or who you believed in when you were living, it matters if you lived peacefully amongst your neighbors. You will be rewarded by who-ever is the greater being no matter what, so IMO you don't have to believe in a religion to be a good person and if god is real he will understand that. If you lived a good life as a religious person but there is no god then you were a good human being whose acts will be remembered by friends and family and possibly the annals of history.
PEACE!
katsafados
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3189534
You are explaining the evolution theory as to how it pertains to creatures. I am referencing and asking from a scientific standpoint how the planets and the solar system were created? I understand the evolution theory pertaining to creatures...actually many christian believe God used this as his tool to create the animals and such...I am referencing the planetary/solar creation though.
Havent giving it much thought. But since I/m studying for an organic chemistry final.. I'll say it was created from a series of reactions lol.
http:///forum/post/3189534
You are explaining the evolution theory as to how it pertains to creatures. I am referencing and asking from a scientific standpoint how the planets and the solar system were created? I understand the evolution theory pertaining to creatures...actually many christian believe God used this as his tool to create the animals and such...I am referencing the planetary/solar creation though.
Havent giving it much thought. But since I/m studying for an organic chemistry final.. I'll say it was created from a series of reactions lol.
katsafados
Active Member
Originally Posted by SOVIETTACO
http:///forum/post/3189564
My point is that we will not know how the universe was formed just as we will never know if god really exists, we can believe and have faith but we cannot know.
This is my opinion choose what you want to belive in, because there is no way around it YOU WILL DIE.
Now either you lived your life as a good christian, a good muslim, a good buddhist, a good jew, and so on or you lived you life as good decent human being who didn't believe in any god or just believed that something or someone created us, heck maybe you belive in aliens or something. BUT YOU CAN NOT GET AROUND THE FACT THAT YOU WILL DIE.
It really doesn't matter what or who you believed in when you were living, it matters if you lived peacefully amongst your neighbors. You will be rewarded by who-ever is the greater being no matter what, so IMO you don't have to believe in a religion to be a good person and if god is real he will understand that. If you lived a good life as a religious person but there is no god then you were a good human being whose acts will be remembered by friends and family and possibly the annals of history.
PEACE!
+1 haha
Now I have to study lol..
http:///forum/post/3189564
My point is that we will not know how the universe was formed just as we will never know if god really exists, we can believe and have faith but we cannot know.
This is my opinion choose what you want to belive in, because there is no way around it YOU WILL DIE.
Now either you lived your life as a good christian, a good muslim, a good buddhist, a good jew, and so on or you lived you life as good decent human being who didn't believe in any god or just believed that something or someone created us, heck maybe you belive in aliens or something. BUT YOU CAN NOT GET AROUND THE FACT THAT YOU WILL DIE.
It really doesn't matter what or who you believed in when you were living, it matters if you lived peacefully amongst your neighbors. You will be rewarded by who-ever is the greater being no matter what, so IMO you don't have to believe in a religion to be a good person and if god is real he will understand that. If you lived a good life as a religious person but there is no god then you were a good human being whose acts will be remembered by friends and family and possibly the annals of history.
PEACE!
+1 haha
Now I have to study lol..
darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by Katsafados
http:///forum/post/3189567
Havent giving it much thought. But since I/m studying for an organic chemistry final.. I'll say it was created from a series of reactions lol.
I can buy that...but what started those reactions...
I will skip to the chase....in science it is all cause and effect essentially...but when you get to the very beginning you have to have a cause for an effect....What caused the reactions? what created the first atom or molecule? SOMETHING had to set it in motion...science can't explain that and never will....therefore the human brain deduces there must be a higher power/ entity that started the wheels of motion moving....unless someone can give me a concrete scientific explanation of where it all began...science and religion go hand in hand when it comes to this very topic...both are unprovable...
http:///forum/post/3189567
Havent giving it much thought. But since I/m studying for an organic chemistry final.. I'll say it was created from a series of reactions lol.
I can buy that...but what started those reactions...
I will skip to the chase....in science it is all cause and effect essentially...but when you get to the very beginning you have to have a cause for an effect....What caused the reactions? what created the first atom or molecule? SOMETHING had to set it in motion...science can't explain that and never will....therefore the human brain deduces there must be a higher power/ entity that started the wheels of motion moving....unless someone can give me a concrete scientific explanation of where it all began...science and religion go hand in hand when it comes to this very topic...both are unprovable...
stevedave08
Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3189545
Hold on. Lets touch on the war support. You said you supported both wars BEFORE you found they were about money (which all wars are in the end). I don't understand how someone else's reason for a war can change your mind and and change the reasons you supported the wars in the first place? Afghanistan..how is that war about money and even if it is, how does this change the facts of wehy you supported afghanistan in the first place?
Next...the lies and scare tactics of the far-right....how about these lies from the far left?
You are really funny. In your copy and pasting here, I don't see lies or scare tactics. I only see your percieved lies and scare tactics of your own. Let me explain.
You're first statements about war make no sense. By you're logic, if we go to war with Mexico because we've been told there is a threat there and WMD have been sighted and are being put together, but then we find out after many have died that it was all a plot to just take over the land there and kill all the people so that America can populate Mexico, it's perfectly fine. Since we supported the war at first cause there was a proposed threat of WMD, we should be ok with mass genocide and taking of their land. Its just an outlandish example, but by your logic, it's ok. It shouldn't change my reasons for supporting the war even though the original reasons were completely false and cost american lives.
I never said Afghanistan was about money. I was talking about Iraq. I said I agreed with the war in Afghanistan and still do, although we don't need to be there forever. I questioned the war in Iraq when they first started talking about it, but they said there was WMD there, in that case I said let's go get them. When I realized it wa all about Halliburton making a sh-it-ton of money, I was pissed and lied to by the supposed leaders who were using the supposed "defense of my freedom" to get money and nothing else, while costing us brave American soldiers lives. BTW, we went into WWII because the Japanese bombed the living S out of Pearl Harbor, did we not? I don't think blowing up Okinawa and Nagasaki made us any money. In fact, it cost us money to rebuild what was left. The war in Iraq is costing us an exorbitant amount of money and a lot of it is going straight to Halliburton. Look it up.
On the so detailed list of "lies" that you put up, I don't disagree with any of what is proposed there. I love the businesses who make an "honest mistake" get fined line. Oh, poor businesses who provide really crappy health care with through-the-roof deductibles to already poorly paid employees. They might just make an "honest mistake" and provide health care that covers nothing.
BTW, what's wrong with deciding what "acceptable" health care is. You don't know what acceptable health care is going to be. You think they will decide to lower the bar for acceptable health care or raise it? If they lower it, then why are you so concerned about companies that might make an "honest mistake". You mean that even if the acceptable health care was lower quality than what it is now, these companies would be making an "honest mistake" by providing even crappier coverage? If they raised the bar, would that not be good for us all, as quality of health care would get better? If the bar was lowered then existing insurance plans should be ok and shouldn't need to be reworked because they'd be above this mythic lowered bar already wouldn't they? They'd be providing better care than is required and if you already had one of those plans you could keep it. But the almighty insurance companies that everyone, by opposing reform, are supporting would more than likely reduce their coverage to the bare minimun to meet the lowered bar. Insurance companies really care about you. pfffft.
Of course taxes would go up, any plan, any war, any anything the government does raises taxes. Then people complain and someone lowers them and then someone raises them again. Changing anything in government for the better usually costs money to implement. So should we just stop trying to change anything in this country? How about we stop funding useless programs that benefit no one? Like the wild horse funding I mentioned earlier.
The line about how if you like what you have you can keep it being a lie is hilarious. It's obvious that if you have your own private insurance that you pay for out of pocket or through work would have to provide better coverage if the acceptable coverage bar goes up, so no, it would not be the same plan, it would be better. And, if these companies would like to keep you as a client they would offer you that coverage at the same rate or lower. They already overcharge, so why not actually give you what you pay for. If they cannot stay competitive then the public plan is there. Is that too difficult to understand? If the bar is lowered then keep what you got, right?
http:///forum/post/3189545
Hold on. Lets touch on the war support. You said you supported both wars BEFORE you found they were about money (which all wars are in the end). I don't understand how someone else's reason for a war can change your mind and and change the reasons you supported the wars in the first place? Afghanistan..how is that war about money and even if it is, how does this change the facts of wehy you supported afghanistan in the first place?
Next...the lies and scare tactics of the far-right....how about these lies from the far left?
You are really funny. In your copy and pasting here, I don't see lies or scare tactics. I only see your percieved lies and scare tactics of your own. Let me explain.
You're first statements about war make no sense. By you're logic, if we go to war with Mexico because we've been told there is a threat there and WMD have been sighted and are being put together, but then we find out after many have died that it was all a plot to just take over the land there and kill all the people so that America can populate Mexico, it's perfectly fine. Since we supported the war at first cause there was a proposed threat of WMD, we should be ok with mass genocide and taking of their land. Its just an outlandish example, but by your logic, it's ok. It shouldn't change my reasons for supporting the war even though the original reasons were completely false and cost american lives.
I never said Afghanistan was about money. I was talking about Iraq. I said I agreed with the war in Afghanistan and still do, although we don't need to be there forever. I questioned the war in Iraq when they first started talking about it, but they said there was WMD there, in that case I said let's go get them. When I realized it wa all about Halliburton making a sh-it-ton of money, I was pissed and lied to by the supposed leaders who were using the supposed "defense of my freedom" to get money and nothing else, while costing us brave American soldiers lives. BTW, we went into WWII because the Japanese bombed the living S out of Pearl Harbor, did we not? I don't think blowing up Okinawa and Nagasaki made us any money. In fact, it cost us money to rebuild what was left. The war in Iraq is costing us an exorbitant amount of money and a lot of it is going straight to Halliburton. Look it up.
On the so detailed list of "lies" that you put up, I don't disagree with any of what is proposed there. I love the businesses who make an "honest mistake" get fined line. Oh, poor businesses who provide really crappy health care with through-the-roof deductibles to already poorly paid employees. They might just make an "honest mistake" and provide health care that covers nothing.
BTW, what's wrong with deciding what "acceptable" health care is. You don't know what acceptable health care is going to be. You think they will decide to lower the bar for acceptable health care or raise it? If they lower it, then why are you so concerned about companies that might make an "honest mistake". You mean that even if the acceptable health care was lower quality than what it is now, these companies would be making an "honest mistake" by providing even crappier coverage? If they raised the bar, would that not be good for us all, as quality of health care would get better? If the bar was lowered then existing insurance plans should be ok and shouldn't need to be reworked because they'd be above this mythic lowered bar already wouldn't they? They'd be providing better care than is required and if you already had one of those plans you could keep it. But the almighty insurance companies that everyone, by opposing reform, are supporting would more than likely reduce their coverage to the bare minimun to meet the lowered bar. Insurance companies really care about you. pfffft.
Of course taxes would go up, any plan, any war, any anything the government does raises taxes. Then people complain and someone lowers them and then someone raises them again. Changing anything in government for the better usually costs money to implement. So should we just stop trying to change anything in this country? How about we stop funding useless programs that benefit no one? Like the wild horse funding I mentioned earlier.
The line about how if you like what you have you can keep it being a lie is hilarious. It's obvious that if you have your own private insurance that you pay for out of pocket or through work would have to provide better coverage if the acceptable coverage bar goes up, so no, it would not be the same plan, it would be better. And, if these companies would like to keep you as a client they would offer you that coverage at the same rate or lower. They already overcharge, so why not actually give you what you pay for. If they cannot stay competitive then the public plan is there. Is that too difficult to understand? If the bar is lowered then keep what you got, right?
katsafados
Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3189572
I can buy that...but what started those reactions...
I will skip to the chase....in science it is all cause and effect essentially...but when you get to the very beginning you have to have a cause for an effect....What caused the reactions? what created the first atom or molecule? SOMETHING had to set it in motion...science can't explain that and never will....therefore the human brain deduces there must be a higher power/ entity that started the wheels of motion moving....unless someone can give me a concrete scientific explanation of where it all began...science and religion go hand in hand when it comes to this very topic...both are unprovable...
Yeah I agree,
But the thing is has anyone tried to study what caused the first atoms ect.? What if the first molecules or what not that caused these reactions were always just around? Most reactions happen spontaneously under the right conditions, so what if one day there were some right conditions and some free floating electrons, protons, neutrons and boom an atom was created. There getting close with research though, they are trying to create anti matter in sweeden(I think) or a country like that, cant remember.
Thus far I havent seen any chruch try to go out and prove that a higher being has existed or shown any evidence that all these stories in the bible exist. At leaste science has proven things that might lead up to theories of creation.
I guess we'll never known untill someone goes to seek out the answers haha.
http:///forum/post/3189572
I can buy that...but what started those reactions...
I will skip to the chase....in science it is all cause and effect essentially...but when you get to the very beginning you have to have a cause for an effect....What caused the reactions? what created the first atom or molecule? SOMETHING had to set it in motion...science can't explain that and never will....therefore the human brain deduces there must be a higher power/ entity that started the wheels of motion moving....unless someone can give me a concrete scientific explanation of where it all began...science and religion go hand in hand when it comes to this very topic...both are unprovable...
Yeah I agree,
But the thing is has anyone tried to study what caused the first atoms ect.? What if the first molecules or what not that caused these reactions were always just around? Most reactions happen spontaneously under the right conditions, so what if one day there were some right conditions and some free floating electrons, protons, neutrons and boom an atom was created. There getting close with research though, they are trying to create anti matter in sweeden(I think) or a country like that, cant remember.
Thus far I havent seen any chruch try to go out and prove that a higher being has existed or shown any evidence that all these stories in the bible exist. At leaste science has proven things that might lead up to theories of creation.
I guess we'll never known untill someone goes to seek out the answers haha.
stevedave08
Member
Originally Posted by Katsafados
http:///forum/post/3189578
Yeah I agree,
But the thing is has anyone tried to study what caused the first atoms ect.? What if the first molecules or what not that caused these reactions were always just around? Most reactions happen spontaneously under the right conditions, so what if one day there were some right conditions and some free floating electrons, protons, neutrons and boom an atom was created. There getting close with research though, they are trying to create anti matter in sweeden(I think) or a country like that, cant remember.
Thus far I havent seen any chruch try to go out and prove that a higher being has existed or shown any evidence that all these stories in the bible exist. At leaste science has proven things that might lead up to theories of creation.
I guess we'll never known untill someone goes to seek out the answers haha.
With either approach, be it religious (creationism) or scientific (big bang), I have to agree with Darth. The science approach has a lot more proof because we know that it is possible to have such reactions, the religious approach says god created the world. No matter what you believe you are always going to come to the questions that follow:
1 Big Bang - Where did the molecules that caused it come from?
They were just floating around - Where?
If there was nothing, what did nothing look like? Nothing.
Was it black was it white? Nothing is indescribable, it is void.
2 Religion - Who created God?
God is uncreated, he just is and has always been.
So he just appeared one day? Yes.
What did the universe look like when he appeared and before he made anything?
You could go on forever. I tend to agree with Soviet on that all we do know is that one day we die and wether we believe in god or not we should all strive to be good people with love and compassion for others before we go. Maybe we'll find out what everything is all about when we go. Maybe everything will just go black.
http:///forum/post/3189578
Yeah I agree,
But the thing is has anyone tried to study what caused the first atoms ect.? What if the first molecules or what not that caused these reactions were always just around? Most reactions happen spontaneously under the right conditions, so what if one day there were some right conditions and some free floating electrons, protons, neutrons and boom an atom was created. There getting close with research though, they are trying to create anti matter in sweeden(I think) or a country like that, cant remember.
Thus far I havent seen any chruch try to go out and prove that a higher being has existed or shown any evidence that all these stories in the bible exist. At leaste science has proven things that might lead up to theories of creation.
I guess we'll never known untill someone goes to seek out the answers haha.
With either approach, be it religious (creationism) or scientific (big bang), I have to agree with Darth. The science approach has a lot more proof because we know that it is possible to have such reactions, the religious approach says god created the world. No matter what you believe you are always going to come to the questions that follow:
1 Big Bang - Where did the molecules that caused it come from?
They were just floating around - Where?
If there was nothing, what did nothing look like? Nothing.
Was it black was it white? Nothing is indescribable, it is void.
2 Religion - Who created God?
God is uncreated, he just is and has always been.
So he just appeared one day? Yes.
What did the universe look like when he appeared and before he made anything?
You could go on forever. I tend to agree with Soviet on that all we do know is that one day we die and wether we believe in god or not we should all strive to be good people with love and compassion for others before we go. Maybe we'll find out what everything is all about when we go. Maybe everything will just go black.
soviettaco
Active Member
Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3189585
With either approach, be it religious (creationism) or scientific (big bang), I have to agree with Darth. The science approach has a lot more proof because we know that it is possible to have such reactions, the religious approach says god created the world. No matter what you believe you are always going to come to the questions that follow:
1 Big Bang - Where did the molecules that caused it come from?
They were just floating around - Where?
If there was nothing, what did nothing look like? Nothing.
Was it black was it white? Nothing is indescribable, it is void.
2 Religion - Who created God?
God is uncreated, he just is and has always been.
So he just appeared one day? Yes.
What did the universe look like when he appeared and before he made anything?
You could go on forever. I tend to agree with Soviet on that all we do know is that one day we die and wether we believe in god or not we should all strive to be good people with love and compassion for others before we go. Maybe we'll find out what everything is all about when we go. Maybe everything will just go black.
Yes now lets close this thread and go eat turkey bacon
http:///forum/post/3189585
With either approach, be it religious (creationism) or scientific (big bang), I have to agree with Darth. The science approach has a lot more proof because we know that it is possible to have such reactions, the religious approach says god created the world. No matter what you believe you are always going to come to the questions that follow:
1 Big Bang - Where did the molecules that caused it come from?
They were just floating around - Where?
If there was nothing, what did nothing look like? Nothing.
Was it black was it white? Nothing is indescribable, it is void.
2 Religion - Who created God?
God is uncreated, he just is and has always been.
So he just appeared one day? Yes.
What did the universe look like when he appeared and before he made anything?
You could go on forever. I tend to agree with Soviet on that all we do know is that one day we die and wether we believe in god or not we should all strive to be good people with love and compassion for others before we go. Maybe we'll find out what everything is all about when we go. Maybe everything will just go black.
Yes now lets close this thread and go eat turkey bacon
katsafados
Active Member
Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3189585
With either approach, be it religious (creationism) or scientific (big bang), I have to agree with Darth. The science approach has a lot more proof because we know that it is possible to have such reactions, the religious approach says god created the world. No matter what you believe you are always going to come to the questions that follow:
1 Big Bang - Where did the molecules that caused it come from?
They were just floating around - Where?
If there was nothing, what did nothing look like? Nothing.
Was it black was it white? Nothing is indescribable, it is void.
2 Religion - Who created God?
God is uncreated, he just is and has always been.
So he just appeared one day? Yes.
What did the universe look like when he appeared and before he made anything?
You could go on forever. I tend to agree with Soviet on that all we do know is that one day we die and wether we believe in god or not we should all strive to be good people with love and compassion for others before we go. Maybe we'll find out what everything is all about when we go. Maybe everything will just go black.
I can agree with that..
I really gotta go study now, I dont even thing a higher being can help me with this exam
http:///forum/post/3189585
With either approach, be it religious (creationism) or scientific (big bang), I have to agree with Darth. The science approach has a lot more proof because we know that it is possible to have such reactions, the religious approach says god created the world. No matter what you believe you are always going to come to the questions that follow:
1 Big Bang - Where did the molecules that caused it come from?
They were just floating around - Where?
If there was nothing, what did nothing look like? Nothing.
Was it black was it white? Nothing is indescribable, it is void.
2 Religion - Who created God?
God is uncreated, he just is and has always been.
So he just appeared one day? Yes.
What did the universe look like when he appeared and before he made anything?
You could go on forever. I tend to agree with Soviet on that all we do know is that one day we die and wether we believe in god or not we should all strive to be good people with love and compassion for others before we go. Maybe we'll find out what everything is all about when we go. Maybe everything will just go black.
I can agree with that..
I really gotta go study now, I dont even thing a higher being can help me with this exam
t316
Active Member
Originally Posted by Katsafados
http:///forum/post/3189591
I can agree with that..
I really gotta go study now, I dont even thing a higher being can help me with this exam
Ask, and ye shall receive
http:///forum/post/3189591
I can agree with that..
I really gotta go study now, I dont even thing a higher being can help me with this exam
Ask, and ye shall receive
darthtang aw
Active Member
Originally Posted by Katsafados
http:///forum/post/3189578
Yeah I agree,
But the thing is has anyone tried to study what caused the first atoms ect.? What if the first molecules or what not that caused these reactions were always just around? Most reactions happen spontaneously under the right conditions, so what if one day there were some right conditions and some free floating electrons, protons, neutrons and boom an atom was created.
Something always being around is contrary to every scientific rule.
What caused the right conditions? Science states everything has an order and a pattern. Therefore the perfect conditions could not happen without something setting them in motion....
Religion has shown many things to show There is a god...Many of the stories in the bible can now be proven as true...
Science can not prove there is no god (with scientific evidence) and religion can not prove (with scientific evidence) there is......
That is why it is called "faith". On the weather alone how many times has science been wrong with it's predictions?
http:///forum/post/3189578
Yeah I agree,
But the thing is has anyone tried to study what caused the first atoms ect.? What if the first molecules or what not that caused these reactions were always just around? Most reactions happen spontaneously under the right conditions, so what if one day there were some right conditions and some free floating electrons, protons, neutrons and boom an atom was created.
Something always being around is contrary to every scientific rule.
What caused the right conditions? Science states everything has an order and a pattern. Therefore the perfect conditions could not happen without something setting them in motion....
Religion has shown many things to show There is a god...Many of the stories in the bible can now be proven as true...
Science can not prove there is no god (with scientific evidence) and religion can not prove (with scientific evidence) there is......
That is why it is called "faith". On the weather alone how many times has science been wrong with it's predictions?
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by SteveDave08
http:///forum/post/3189523
I'm sorry, Joe Lieberman is an idiot. I don't care who's side he's on or what he's got to say to anyone about anything. That guy is an absolute flip-flopping moron willing to support the highest bidder and has no business being in office. He only supports what is most beneficial to him at the time and I think he gets off by being so "mavericky" and getting in the paper.
You consider me a democrat, I supported the wars when when they started. Then I found out it was all a sham to get big money, and I wasn't so happy to say the least.
Again, don't get me wrong, in nothing that I stated did I say all conservaties or all anyone. And in nothing that I stated did I even propose that there are not loons on both sides. What I'm saying is that at the moment, the loons who are out there the most are the nutcase right-wingers. Notice I said nutcase right-wingers, not all right-wingers. I'm not generalizing.
Also, I'm not saying the left has not nominated idiots before, I wasn't even talking about that. I wasn't even talking about policy either. I was talking about the political strategies being implemented by some people to further their cause by appealing to ignorant people that can't tell they are being lied to even when facts that prove the lie are held out in front of them. Example. If I'm a politician and I choose to propagate a lie, and I am called out on it, I shouldn't keep propogating that lie and just hoping that people think it's true even though it's been proven false. That is what I have an issue with and it is a practice, I'm sorry to say that may be active in any political party, but is curently the favorite strategy of the right. That's what I meant.
Where has Lieberman flipped? He has said it might be worth exploring expanding medicare for those who retire early or are laid off, not open it up to everyone.
I hope all you on the left, who originally supported the war and flipped after it became obvious that the intelligence on the WMD's was wrong will hold the same opinion when it comes to the deliberate deception of the public over the global warming issue.
http:///forum/post/3189523
I'm sorry, Joe Lieberman is an idiot. I don't care who's side he's on or what he's got to say to anyone about anything. That guy is an absolute flip-flopping moron willing to support the highest bidder and has no business being in office. He only supports what is most beneficial to him at the time and I think he gets off by being so "mavericky" and getting in the paper.
You consider me a democrat, I supported the wars when when they started. Then I found out it was all a sham to get big money, and I wasn't so happy to say the least.
Again, don't get me wrong, in nothing that I stated did I say all conservaties or all anyone. And in nothing that I stated did I even propose that there are not loons on both sides. What I'm saying is that at the moment, the loons who are out there the most are the nutcase right-wingers. Notice I said nutcase right-wingers, not all right-wingers. I'm not generalizing.
Also, I'm not saying the left has not nominated idiots before, I wasn't even talking about that. I wasn't even talking about policy either. I was talking about the political strategies being implemented by some people to further their cause by appealing to ignorant people that can't tell they are being lied to even when facts that prove the lie are held out in front of them. Example. If I'm a politician and I choose to propagate a lie, and I am called out on it, I shouldn't keep propogating that lie and just hoping that people think it's true even though it's been proven false. That is what I have an issue with and it is a practice, I'm sorry to say that may be active in any political party, but is curently the favorite strategy of the right. That's what I meant.
Where has Lieberman flipped? He has said it might be worth exploring expanding medicare for those who retire early or are laid off, not open it up to everyone.
I hope all you on the left, who originally supported the war and flipped after it became obvious that the intelligence on the WMD's was wrong will hold the same opinion when it comes to the deliberate deception of the public over the global warming issue.
reefraff
Active Member
Trying to figure out how the universe was formed is only good for a blue ribbon headache. If you believe in God how was he created? If not how were the elements that lead to the creation of the universe?
And my favorite, When did time begin? Wat was there before time? How big is space? Where does space end?
And my favorite, When did time begin? Wat was there before time? How big is space? Where does space end?
stevedave08
Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3189619
Where has Lieberman flipped? He has said it might be worth exploring expanding medicare for those who retire early or are laid off, not open it up to everyone.
I hope all you on the left, who originally supported the war and flipped after it became obvious that the intelligence on the WMD's was wrong will hold the same opinion when it comes to the deliberate deception of the public over the global warming issue.
http://gawker.com/5426193/is-joe-lieberman-just-stupid
http://gawker.com/5426728/joe-lieber...-mentioning-it
http://gawker.com/5426556/another-re...es-a-hypocrite
http:///forum/post/3189619
Where has Lieberman flipped? He has said it might be worth exploring expanding medicare for those who retire early or are laid off, not open it up to everyone.
I hope all you on the left, who originally supported the war and flipped after it became obvious that the intelligence on the WMD's was wrong will hold the same opinion when it comes to the deliberate deception of the public over the global warming issue.
http://gawker.com/5426193/is-joe-lieberman-just-stupid
http://gawker.com/5426728/joe-lieber...-mentioning-it
http://gawker.com/5426556/another-re...es-a-hypocrite