Reply to Shoreliner again/Evolution/Creation debate :)

[molamola]

I don't disagree that the helper was ultimately woman (We are quite helpful too). But looking at a parallel Bible and seeing each version side by side, I see two accounts of creation. I know that we agree on who is responsible for that creation, which, to me, is the focus of the story. We just interpret these passages differently. It doesn't help that there are so many translations to choose from, and I can't make up my mind, hence the parallel bible I've spent so much time on just these two chapters that I'm starting to think it's time to move on to chapter 3
Thanks for all that you have pointed out. There is a lot to learn and a lot to share and I appreciate your viewpoint very much.

Now I'm going to bed. I hope everyone has a good week

 

[neoreef]

In my opinion, you are all misguided.
There is no better pie in all the land than my own sour cherry pie with cherries from my own tree, pitted by my own hand.
There is no better desert, however, than Betty Crocker brownies.
That is the truth and I'm sticking to it. This is what I teach my children, and they will teach their children, and on down through the generations it will be handed.
Every spring there will be cherry pies, and every January 10, there will be brownies for my birthday. No exceptions.
For what it is worth, I don't think God cares whether we figure out the truth about from where we came. God's got bigger cares than that.
He would probably like a piece of pie, though. Come to think of it, so would I.

 

[farmboy]

God wants us to know him. Thus his inspired word-the Bible. Good discussion.
Apple dumplings. Nuff said.
The diversity of deserts on this planet is staggering.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by lovethesea
so..........the last question was the evolution of cream pie.. coconut cream has evolved nicely too :joy:

You know, call me crazy, but I have never been brave enough to take on the cream pie debate. Just SO many opinions you know...and everyone is entitled to theirs. But I've had bad experiences with coconut in general. Sometimes it can be like little bits of sawdust in things. But like the fresh dried powdered or whatever? I would suck on the stuff like chewing tobacco if no one was watching. Then spit out the rest. I have a sugar problem.
How about the evolution of soft drinks? Lots of extinct lines there...wondering if the splenda coke will go that way. :thinking:

 

[molamola]

It has always been my understanding that TAB is the common ancestor of all diet colas.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by neoreef
For what it is worth, I don't think God cares whether we figure out the truth about from where we came. God's got bigger cares than that.
He would probably like a piece of pie, though. Come to think of it, so would I.

You know, thanks for saying this. I was truly wondering about something along these lines.
Can we be judgemental and condemn people so long as we don't believe in evolution; can we believe in Evolution but still believe in God and be A-OK? Is that what we are taught to do (cast stones)? Each person's faith is their own. I encourage people to think about it, to think about the challenges we each face, and try and become better people. I think the free will we are given is sometimes used for wrong, but sometimes used to better one's life and others in turn. Some of the times I felt "closest" to God was not in church, but in looking at a jar of specimens in a museum, working on my research in evolutionary biology! I'd thank him to see the beauty in a specimen. It is what worked to draw me closer. Maybe God is saying "hey, there's that kid down there with all the rocks and plants and stuff in her pockets, this is what I'm gonna do to reach out to her...." I believe very strongly in fate, that we are set to do things for a reason, and accepting that is key to one's relationship with God. I believe I met my husband at a particular time for a particular reason. I believe I have been given challenges in my life to overcome, that also are important in my relationship with God. I am, for example, an EXTREMELY judgemental person...like within minutes...but I have to always ask myself if I allowed that bias to result in mistreatment of someone. Yeah, there is a lot of guilt involved there But I'm working on it.
For some, a relationship with God may be best developed with strict doctrine; for others it may be out on a hike, or study in a museum or whatever. I may read the bible and believe "hey, that was a good way to explain this complex stuff that people couldn't explain at the time" but others may believe it is as it was. Coolio. Just like I would never withhold medical attention from someone because I believe God performs miracles through the hands of doctors, and medical science (at least most of the time!). But there are people who want that bolt of lightening miracle and won't seek any medical attention.
We all have different ways of worship...but is it the ways, or the worship, that really counts in the end?

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by MolaMola
It has always been my understanding that TAB is the common ancestor of all diet colas.
Did diet sodas evolve from regular (and ultimately "fountain" sodas) or what? They are pretty different. Convergence, or a common ancestor somewhere in the regular soda lineage?

 

[ophiura]

Finally, advice to Shawnts...and serious advice, BTW, not in jest.
You should read both books that favor Creationism, as well as those that favor Evolutionary theory, and then those that may merge both. If you hope to be a scientist, you must deal with actually studying theories you disagree with and that may challenge your own. In debating, you are trying to debate to the strength of those you disagree with (saying "evolutionist believe THIS...") which is like a hanging curve ball in a debate. There is no way that you can know exactly what your opponent thinks, and you can easily be defeated that way. You must debate to your own strength.
Yo should also find what "TV rating" evolutionists study versus what more conservative research evolutionists study. At no time in my research was I looking for the "missing link" nor did my advisors or fellow students. Simply put, you can't really recognize them, you wouldn't see them come out at a node of an evolutionary tree...that's just not how the data is analyzed. I wasn't, however, a molecular systematist and refused to be, because they tend to employ models of evolution which I felt couldn't be tested. They can get pretty far out there, IMO.

 

[darth tang]

have no control over what people believed or thought they believed in the past, the people who murdered people in the Name of God probably were not truthfull in their sayings, They were probably and most likly enveloped in their own personal feelings are reacted on impulse and emotion rather than Gods will...
You see in the news about mothers saying that they killed their children becaue thats what God said to do. These people are probably mentally ill and do not know what or who God is but because they have heard such they repeat it, and also could have possibly been consumed and infected by a demon, or the devils angels, this has happend, and is still happening today.
You didn't answer the whole question. The question is actually larger than just the slayings done by man in the name of god. You avoid the obvious by your statement. Let me explain.
Sodom and Gommorhea.
The great Flood.
Cain
The slayings of all the Egyptian first born
Things not done by man, but by God as the bible states. A systematic cleansing of heathens, criminals, heretics, and sinners. But slayings in the name of God none the less.
Now I can defend these actions. Can you? Explain how they are different from the slayings done by man in the name of God. Especially since in the eyes of God all men are sinners and aren't free from sin.
NMReef, you posed this question to our feverishly religious poster here. I am assuming you are namely targeting the three Crusades enacted by the church. If so, I can PROPERLY answer the reasons for these crusades. Justifying them even. Something our fellow poster in all his religious intellect was unable to do. But I have the feeling you were looking to trip up the poster. However if you still wish for an answer, I would be happy to explain it.
Shawnts106, I have a suggestion for you. Take both sides of the arguement. And try to justify both sides. Only then will you have the greater understanding on the topic that you currently think you do. You are giving christians and followers of faith a bad reputation. You portray us as blind, single-minded, and narrow. Not to mention, uneducated on topics of this nature. You are taking the small piece of information you know well and trying to expand on it blindly. You are in essence, debating the third grade level of evolution with those that have been taught or learned the College level of evolution. This is coming from a man of faith with a belief there is a God.

 

[molamola]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Did diet sodas evolve from regular (and ultimately "fountain" sodas) or what? They are pretty different. Convergence, or a common ancestor somewhere in the regular soda lineage?

I believe that Coca Cola was the original and all carbonated beverages can be traced back to it, even though some have evolved over time into different brandnames. They are still related though. Sodas like Pepsi Clear, and the New Coke, must have had negative mutations and that is why they're not still around. I also think that an important lesson can be learned from Coca Cola and I will quote it now.
"I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony..." :yes: That would be difficult though because some people are just plain tone deaf and it wouldn't work out.

 

[shawnts106]

The diversity of deserts on this planet is staggering.
LMBO!!!!!!! oh I read this and bout' fell out of my seat!!!!
You should read both books that favor Creationism, as well as those that favor Evolutionary theory, and then those that may merge both. If you hope to be a scientist, you must deal with actually studying theories you disagree with and that may challenge your own.
Been there done that, why do you think im a Creationist now? I was ONCE an evolutionists then a Gap Theorist then I realized that there is NO way possible for the earth to be millions of years old because Genesis states the word DAY so many times I cant count, and since YOM means a 24 hour period and also since plants were created before the sun it is impossible for the DAYS to stand for millions of years... also, if maybe God used evolution to develope the earth and organisms, which I once believed, then that would meen that the entire BIBLE is a LIE, because he says Days, not YEARS and also, Animals bring forth "after his KIND" aka, *(dogs bring forth dogs, cats bring forth cats and dolphins bringth forthth dolphinsths!)*,
You can not accept a lie and a truth at the same time, but what you can do is put them into thought, time and research and see which one stands up... that would then be the truth and the rest should by thrown out like rotten apples...
I do study other theorys, have for years, and am still continuing, not to get off subject but I am now studying reincarnation, so far I do not believe this is possible but I do have a few questions which I am still researching to find answers....
I am not in any way, shape, form, or fashion a close minded person, Im very open, to other religions, cultures, beliefs, but this doesnt meen that I am going to let someone elses IDEAS or THEORYS inpact my own thats like saying since Joe over here believes the sky is orange at midnight, I will too... its not logical, rational or very smart.... its foolish to believe someone elses ideas just because they do believe them.... you have to put time and effort into realizing why people believe what they do....
Things not done by man, but by God as the bible states. A systematic cleansing of heathens, criminals, heretics, and sinners. But slayings in the name of God none the less.

done by man because God came and either verbally told them to or told them to in prayer, these people that died in the name of God were filthy sinners, who where killed because of their sins and because they knew what they were doing but chose to do them anyway... The slaying of the egyptian first borns was done and ordered by the pharoah, not by God, I believe that God had a plan for this, that moses should be preserved and lead his people, which he did, but the pharoah was the one who ordered the deaths. God did not tell him to do so, he did because he did not want to be overthrown.
Take both sides of the arguement. And try to justify both sides. Only then will you have the greater understanding on the topic that you currently think you do.
I agree, but you can not justify a lie, thats not possible, thats like saying I chose to steal this object because I wanted it, WOOOP TE DOOO, Well I want a New Tank, but Im not going to go hold up my LFS and steel one!
yes I do think that people, including myself, should research and learn each choice topic they wish to know about before going out and trying to defend the one they know more about... this is obveous!
You are giving christians and followers of faith a bad reputation. You portray us as blind, single-minded, and narrow. Not to mention, uneducated on topics of this nature. You are taking the small piece of information you know well and trying to expand on it blindly. You are in essence, debating the third grade level of evolution with those that have been taught or learned the College level of evolution. This is coming from a man of faith with a belief there is a God.
Sorry you believe this, but I have yet to hear any information about a "college level" analysis of the Evolutionary theory, all I have heard is, " you dont understand" and " you dont know what your talking about" and "no thats not right" but there are no facts, information, test results, evidence to back these statments up....
Let someone on here explain the "college level" of evolution and give me facts and research to back it up and then we will talk about being single minded, narrow, blind people ok?... Thrid Grade level huh?... OK, first, why are they teaching third graders religion in public schools? evolution is a religion, I am NOT asking that creation to be taught in public school, but what I AM ASKING is that real SCIENCE, TRUTH, TESTABLE, RESEARCHABLE, OBSERVABLE, REPEATABLE evidence be taught in schools... that you for proving that point for me there!

 

[tizzo]

You guys stress to much...
Lovethesea, I believe I'll take you up on that offer up there...THEN more pie!!

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by lovethesea
anybody????..............


The pie/dessert and brief soda discussion would pale in comparison to a discussion of the evolution/creation of pain killers. Then we get the whole prescription/pharm industry thing, then over the counter, government agencies....
I prefer Aleve myself, though for a headache I do like the Excedrin migraine quite a lot. But that has caffeine, which could take us back around to either chocolate (desserts, candy), soda or coffee relationships.
Some people have been unhappy that this thread was "hijacked" or otherwise went off course, but you can also see where the attempts to keep it going by keeping it on the lighter side had a purpose. Without that, these threads can turn real ugly, real fast. :yes: I don't think there is anything productive left, in there was anything productive to start.