Republican Candidates
- Thread starter stdreb27
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darthtang aw
Active Member
I attend every funeral for any of the troops coming home under our flag. Have you done as much to even honor one member and the sacrifice their family gave?
and just to clear up why I say they are safer, it is due to the fact our military is very efficient and good at what they do. This saves lives. They are the best equipped military in the world. Their equipment saves lives.
Still waiting on that report, amozing you have been at this almost 12 hours on this thread and you haven't even provided 1 of 10 reports you said you could.....typical leftwing democrat blind mule hugger
and just to clear up why I say they are safer, it is due to the fact our military is very efficient and good at what they do. This saves lives. They are the best equipped military in the world. Their equipment saves lives.
Still waiting on that report, amozing you have been at this almost 12 hours on this thread and you haven't even provided 1 of 10 reports you said you could.....typical leftwing democrat blind mule hugger
tarball
Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
But he was supposed to disarm and dismantle those shells in the first place....you keep skipping that key part.
18 wheeler loaded with gasoline has more destructive power then a 12 yr old sarin shell.
Maybe we should attack any country with tractor trailers full of gas.
Point is , your point is pointless.
But he was supposed to disarm and dismantle those shells in the first place....you keep skipping that key part.
18 wheeler loaded with gasoline has more destructive power then a 12 yr old sarin shell.
Maybe we should attack any country with tractor trailers full of gas.
Point is , your point is pointless.
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by Tarball
Stop dragging my comments out of perspective. saddam was a piece of sh*t, but that does not justify our troops death or 100,000 plus Iraqis death.
You're comment is extremely selfish.
My comment is spot on..Any war on terror that would leave Saddam in power would hardly be called a success.
Do you have anything to say regarding the movement of Iraq WMD to Syria?
Stop dragging my comments out of perspective. saddam was a piece of sh*t, but that does not justify our troops death or 100,000 plus Iraqis death.
You're comment is extremely selfish.
My comment is spot on..Any war on terror that would leave Saddam in power would hardly be called a success.
Do you have anything to say regarding the movement of Iraq WMD to Syria?
reefraff
Active Member
No reasonable person can deny that Iraq had produced chemical weapons because they had used them and the UN found and destroyed weapons and weapons agents in the 90's.
Therefore there can be no doubt even in hindsight that Iraq possessed the technical knowledge to produce chemical and biological weapons.
Even detractors of the war admit that there were numerous contacts between Al Qaeda and the Iraq government even if nothing came of it, they were known to have met on several occasions.
So pre war we knew Iraq had WMD technology.
We knew Iraq and Al Qaeda had several known contacts.
Even looking in hindsight how hard would it have been for Iraq to make a small amount of a chemical or biological agent and hand it off to Al Qaeda or another terrorist group?
Now consider this:
By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, June 19, 2004; Page A11
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jun18.html
"Russian President Vladimir Putin said yesterday that his intelligence service had warned the Bush administration before the U.S. invasion of Iraq that Saddam Hussein's government was planning attacks against U.S. targets both inside and outside the country.
"After Sept. 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, the Russian special services, the intelligence service, received information that officials from Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States and outside it against the U.S. military and other interests," Putin said, according to RIA Novosti, the Russian news agency. "American President George Bush had an opportunity to personally thank the head of one of the Russian special services for this information, which he regarded as very important," the Russian president told an interviewer while in Astana, capital of Kazakhstan."
So now we have a country known to posess the technology to produce chemical weapons, has had contacts with the terrorist group that has already made several major attacks against the US including 9-11-01 and has been found by numerous intellegence sources to be planning terrorist style attacks on the US.
My question to you anti-war folks is do you not see Iraq as a legitimate threat? That doesn't mean you have to suddenly agree with Bush or change your opinion that we shouldn't have invaded.
And as far as "Bush Lied" I will again post the link
http://www.americandaily.com/article/4694
That site provided credible links to all the quotes from Democrat politicians stating the fact they knew Iraq had WMD's. If you don't think USA Today, CNN, PBS, The official House and Senate achives are credible sources I suggest you move to Cuba
Most of those quotes are from people who were in office during the Clinton administration. So you have Democrat politicians that said during the Clinton administration Iraq had WMD, During the Bush administration the same people said Iraq had WMD's. None of these people ever said "wait, Iraqs WMD's were destroyed in 1998". They held the very same opinions in 2002 as they did in 1998.
It's obvious to any clear thinking individual that there would be no reason for the Clinton administration to conceal the fact Iraq's WMD capabilities had been destroyed. It would have been considered a major political accomplishment.
The whole notion that Bush lied us into war falls flat on it's face when confronted by the facts.
Therefore there can be no doubt even in hindsight that Iraq possessed the technical knowledge to produce chemical and biological weapons.
Even detractors of the war admit that there were numerous contacts between Al Qaeda and the Iraq government even if nothing came of it, they were known to have met on several occasions.
So pre war we knew Iraq had WMD technology.
We knew Iraq and Al Qaeda had several known contacts.
Even looking in hindsight how hard would it have been for Iraq to make a small amount of a chemical or biological agent and hand it off to Al Qaeda or another terrorist group?
Now consider this:
By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, June 19, 2004; Page A11
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jun18.html
"Russian President Vladimir Putin said yesterday that his intelligence service had warned the Bush administration before the U.S. invasion of Iraq that Saddam Hussein's government was planning attacks against U.S. targets both inside and outside the country.
"After Sept. 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, the Russian special services, the intelligence service, received information that officials from Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States and outside it against the U.S. military and other interests," Putin said, according to RIA Novosti, the Russian news agency. "American President George Bush had an opportunity to personally thank the head of one of the Russian special services for this information, which he regarded as very important," the Russian president told an interviewer while in Astana, capital of Kazakhstan."
So now we have a country known to posess the technology to produce chemical weapons, has had contacts with the terrorist group that has already made several major attacks against the US including 9-11-01 and has been found by numerous intellegence sources to be planning terrorist style attacks on the US.
My question to you anti-war folks is do you not see Iraq as a legitimate threat? That doesn't mean you have to suddenly agree with Bush or change your opinion that we shouldn't have invaded.
And as far as "Bush Lied" I will again post the link
http://www.americandaily.com/article/4694
That site provided credible links to all the quotes from Democrat politicians stating the fact they knew Iraq had WMD's. If you don't think USA Today, CNN, PBS, The official House and Senate achives are credible sources I suggest you move to Cuba
Most of those quotes are from people who were in office during the Clinton administration. So you have Democrat politicians that said during the Clinton administration Iraq had WMD, During the Bush administration the same people said Iraq had WMD's. None of these people ever said "wait, Iraqs WMD's were destroyed in 1998". They held the very same opinions in 2002 as they did in 1998.
It's obvious to any clear thinking individual that there would be no reason for the Clinton administration to conceal the fact Iraq's WMD capabilities had been destroyed. It would have been considered a major political accomplishment.
The whole notion that Bush lied us into war falls flat on it's face when confronted by the facts.
scubadoo
Active Member
When former weapons inspector Kay reported to Congress in January that the United States had found "no stockpiles" of forbidden weapons in Iraq, his conclusions made front-page news. But when he detailed what the ISG had found in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence last October, few took notice.
Among Kay's revelations, which officials tell Insight have been amplified in subsequent inspections in recent weeks:
A prison laboratory complex that may have been used for human testing of BW agents and "that Iraqi officials working to prepare the U.N. inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N." Why was Saddam interested in testing biological-warfare agents on humans if he didn't have a biological-weapons program?
"Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'"
New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not declared to the United Nations.
A line of unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs, or drones, "not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 kilometers [311 miles], 350 kilometers [217 miles] beyond the permissible limit."
"Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the U.N."
"Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] -- well beyond the 150-kilometer-range limit [93 miles] imposed by the U.N. Missiles of a 1,000-kilometer range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets throughout the Middle East, including Ankara [Turkey], Cairo [Egypt] and Abu Dhabi [United Arab Emirates]."
In addition, through interviews with Iraqi scientists, seized documents and other evidence, the ISG learned the Iraqi government had made "clandestine attempts between late 1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300-kilometer-range [807 miles] ballistic missiles -- probably the No Dong -- 300-kilometer-range [186 miles] antiship cruise missiles and other prohibited military equipment," Kay reported.
In testimony before Congress on March 30, Duelfer, revealed the ISG had found evidence of a "crash program" to construct new plants capable of making chemical- and biological-warfare agents.
The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials. That came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a clandestine nuclear-weapons program."
Among Kay's revelations, which officials tell Insight have been amplified in subsequent inspections in recent weeks:
A prison laboratory complex that may have been used for human testing of BW agents and "that Iraqi officials working to prepare the U.N. inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N." Why was Saddam interested in testing biological-warfare agents on humans if he didn't have a biological-weapons program?
"Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'"
New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not declared to the United Nations.
A line of unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs, or drones, "not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 kilometers [311 miles], 350 kilometers [217 miles] beyond the permissible limit."
"Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the U.N."
"Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] -- well beyond the 150-kilometer-range limit [93 miles] imposed by the U.N. Missiles of a 1,000-kilometer range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets throughout the Middle East, including Ankara [Turkey], Cairo [Egypt] and Abu Dhabi [United Arab Emirates]."
In addition, through interviews with Iraqi scientists, seized documents and other evidence, the ISG learned the Iraqi government had made "clandestine attempts between late 1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300-kilometer-range [807 miles] ballistic missiles -- probably the No Dong -- 300-kilometer-range [186 miles] antiship cruise missiles and other prohibited military equipment," Kay reported.
In testimony before Congress on March 30, Duelfer, revealed the ISG had found evidence of a "crash program" to construct new plants capable of making chemical- and biological-warfare agents.
The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials. That came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a clandestine nuclear-weapons program."
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by Tarball
You radical conservatives should share your perspective with the families of our dead troops. Better yet, better yet explain it to the couple hundred thousand family members of the Iraq families grieving their losses.
I'm sure their blood is worthless to you republican freaks.
lol, if one even one of my four cousins, (and we are mexican so all cousins are like brothers and sisters) who are in the military, either Airforce Academy grad who flies something classified, special forces recon Marine 3 tours in Iraq, Army helicopter pilot 2 tours in Iraq. Would tell me this is wrong, I'd believe him. But not only have they not, but they whole heartedly support what they VOLENTEERED to do. They believe in what their mission. And are willing to die to see it happen. It would be sad, but I only hope I have the core beliefs to be willing to die for what I believe in.
-The narrow minded idot with some perspective from the front lines-
You radical conservatives should share your perspective with the families of our dead troops. Better yet, better yet explain it to the couple hundred thousand family members of the Iraq families grieving their losses.
I'm sure their blood is worthless to you republican freaks.
lol, if one even one of my four cousins, (and we are mexican so all cousins are like brothers and sisters) who are in the military, either Airforce Academy grad who flies something classified, special forces recon Marine 3 tours in Iraq, Army helicopter pilot 2 tours in Iraq. Would tell me this is wrong, I'd believe him. But not only have they not, but they whole heartedly support what they VOLENTEERED to do. They believe in what their mission. And are willing to die to see it happen. It would be sad, but I only hope I have the core beliefs to be willing to die for what I believe in.
-The narrow minded idot with some perspective from the front lines-
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
When former weapons inspector Kay reported to Congress in January that the United States had found "no stockpiles" of forbidden weapons in Iraq, his conclusions made front-page news. But when he detailed what the ISG had found in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence last October, few took notice.
Among Kay's revelations, which officials tell Insight have been amplified in subsequent inspections in recent weeks:
A prison laboratory complex that may have been used for human testing of BW agents and "that Iraqi officials working to prepare the U.N. inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N." Why was Saddam interested in testing biological-warfare agents on humans if he didn't have a biological-weapons program?
"Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'"
New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not declared to the United Nations.
A line of unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs, or drones, "not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 kilometers [311 miles], 350 kilometers [217 miles] beyond the permissible limit."
"Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the U.N."
"Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] -- well beyond the 150-kilometer-range limit [93 miles] imposed by the U.N. Missiles of a 1,000-kilometer range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets throughout the Middle East, including Ankara [Turkey], Cairo [Egypt] and Abu Dhabi [United Arab Emirates]."
In addition, through interviews with Iraqi scientists, seized documents and other evidence, the ISG learned the Iraqi government had made "clandestine attempts between late 1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300-kilometer-range [807 miles] ballistic missiles -- probably the No Dong -- 300-kilometer-range [186 miles] antiship cruise missiles and other prohibited military equipment," Kay reported.
In testimony before Congress on March 30, Duelfer, revealed the ISG had found evidence of a "crash program" to construct new plants capable of making chemical- and biological-warfare agents.
The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials. That came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a clandestine nuclear-weapons program."
interesting perspective...
You know the name of that report? I'd love to read it.
When former weapons inspector Kay reported to Congress in January that the United States had found "no stockpiles" of forbidden weapons in Iraq, his conclusions made front-page news. But when he detailed what the ISG had found in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence last October, few took notice.
Among Kay's revelations, which officials tell Insight have been amplified in subsequent inspections in recent weeks:
A prison laboratory complex that may have been used for human testing of BW agents and "that Iraqi officials working to prepare the U.N. inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N." Why was Saddam interested in testing biological-warfare agents on humans if he didn't have a biological-weapons program?
"Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'"
New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not declared to the United Nations.
A line of unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs, or drones, "not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 kilometers [311 miles], 350 kilometers [217 miles] beyond the permissible limit."
"Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited Scud-variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the U.N."
"Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1,000 kilometers [621 miles] -- well beyond the 150-kilometer-range limit [93 miles] imposed by the U.N. Missiles of a 1,000-kilometer range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets throughout the Middle East, including Ankara [Turkey], Cairo [Egypt] and Abu Dhabi [United Arab Emirates]."
In addition, through interviews with Iraqi scientists, seized documents and other evidence, the ISG learned the Iraqi government had made "clandestine attempts between late 1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300-kilometer-range [807 miles] ballistic missiles -- probably the No Dong -- 300-kilometer-range [186 miles] antiship cruise missiles and other prohibited military equipment," Kay reported.
In testimony before Congress on March 30, Duelfer, revealed the ISG had found evidence of a "crash program" to construct new plants capable of making chemical- and biological-warfare agents.
The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials. That came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a clandestine nuclear-weapons program."
interesting perspective...
You know the name of that report? I'd love to read it.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
lol, if one even one of my four cousins, (and we are mexican so all cousins are like brothers and sisters) who are in the military, either Airforce Academy grad who flies something classified, special forces recon Marine 3 tours in Iraq, Army helicopter pilot 2 tours in Iraq. Would tell me this is wrong, I'd believe him. But not only have they not, but they whole heartedly support what they VOLENTEERED to do. They believe in what their mission. And are willing to die to see it happen. It would be sad, but I only hope I have the core beliefs to be willing to die for what I believe in.
-The narrow minded idot with some perspective from the front lines-
My son is prety much unpolitical but his wife is a certified Bush hater. Her only comment is Bush needs to get his schnyt together so they can finish the job and come home. My son says if there are guys that think we shouldn't be there most must keep the opinion to themsleves because he has only ever heard a couple of guys whining about it. Most of them just want to finish the job and come home which seems to fall in line with what most other people say they hear from their relatives in the Army.
lol, if one even one of my four cousins, (and we are mexican so all cousins are like brothers and sisters) who are in the military, either Airforce Academy grad who flies something classified, special forces recon Marine 3 tours in Iraq, Army helicopter pilot 2 tours in Iraq. Would tell me this is wrong, I'd believe him. But not only have they not, but they whole heartedly support what they VOLENTEERED to do. They believe in what their mission. And are willing to die to see it happen. It would be sad, but I only hope I have the core beliefs to be willing to die for what I believe in.
-The narrow minded idot with some perspective from the front lines-
My son is prety much unpolitical but his wife is a certified Bush hater. Her only comment is Bush needs to get his schnyt together so they can finish the job and come home. My son says if there are guys that think we shouldn't be there most must keep the opinion to themsleves because he has only ever heard a couple of guys whining about it. Most of them just want to finish the job and come home which seems to fall in line with what most other people say they hear from their relatives in the Army.
scubadoo
Active Member
Dr David Kay, a former head of the UN nuclear inspection team. He suspected that the Iraqis were working on a gun-type bomb and was not quite so adamant in refusing to believe that one had been tested.
"One thing I've learnt in Iraq is that it is unwise to totally exclude anything, because in fact the Iraqis spent a lot of money and got a lot of assistance from other people. They were always trying to do it, and they did it under totalitarian pressure. So people can occasionally do miraculous things," he said.
Kay knew of Group Four - he called it a "major weapons design group operating under the auspices of Saddam himself" - but he had discovered few details about its activities.
It was Kay who uncovered Iraq's crash programme to build an implosion device. He had been amazed at its size. "What we found was more or less an exact replica of a crash US Manhattan Project during the second world war. The facilities were large in number. I remember the initial briefing identified three or four sites. There turned out to be more than 50. We now think there were somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 working on the programme. The best guess of costs is somewhere in the order of $10 billion."
Late last year I turned to the most important Iraqi defector to reach Europe, Abbas al-Janabi. He was personal assistant to Saddam's son, Uday, for 15 years, was imprisoned eight times by his former boss and routinely tortured. He finally fled the country with his family in 1998.
His cousin, Fadil al-Janabi, was high in the Iraqi nuclear programme and other members of his clan were highly placed within Group Four. His response to my probing was succinct. "A nuclear test was carried out - in 1988 or 1989 - in an underground site beside Lake Rezzaza," he said.
He pointed out the test site on a map of Iraq. It was close to Leone's location. "It's a military zone," he said. "I doubt whether UN inspectors ever visited it." He himself had clambered down into a vast underground cavern.
He learnt of the successful test from Uday, who, he said, was unable to conceal his jubilation. "They were talking about the test, about their ability to produce a nuclear bomb. They were talking about a new powerful Iraq," said Janabi.
Was it definitely a nuclear test? "Definitely. There is no doubt about that. It was a small nuclear test." Who had supplied the highly enriched uranium for the bomb?South Africa, he said, via South America.
He claimed to know the person who had negotiated with the South Africans. "He was talking about 50kg. Negotiations began in 1986 and the delivery was made in 1988."
In the mid-1990s, on a Channel 4 investigation, I visited Valindaba, the facility near Pretoria which produced South Africa's bomb-grade uranium. Officially, I was told the plant never achieved its design output because of technical problems. In its lifetime, it was said to have produced weapons-grade uranium for only six or seven devices. But a plant supervisor let slip that it had functioned flawlessly from 1976 until 1989. It could have produced enough for 20 simple uranium bombs.
"One thing I've learnt in Iraq is that it is unwise to totally exclude anything, because in fact the Iraqis spent a lot of money and got a lot of assistance from other people. They were always trying to do it, and they did it under totalitarian pressure. So people can occasionally do miraculous things," he said.
Kay knew of Group Four - he called it a "major weapons design group operating under the auspices of Saddam himself" - but he had discovered few details about its activities.
It was Kay who uncovered Iraq's crash programme to build an implosion device. He had been amazed at its size. "What we found was more or less an exact replica of a crash US Manhattan Project during the second world war. The facilities were large in number. I remember the initial briefing identified three or four sites. There turned out to be more than 50. We now think there were somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 working on the programme. The best guess of costs is somewhere in the order of $10 billion."
Late last year I turned to the most important Iraqi defector to reach Europe, Abbas al-Janabi. He was personal assistant to Saddam's son, Uday, for 15 years, was imprisoned eight times by his former boss and routinely tortured. He finally fled the country with his family in 1998.
His cousin, Fadil al-Janabi, was high in the Iraqi nuclear programme and other members of his clan were highly placed within Group Four. His response to my probing was succinct. "A nuclear test was carried out - in 1988 or 1989 - in an underground site beside Lake Rezzaza," he said.
He pointed out the test site on a map of Iraq. It was close to Leone's location. "It's a military zone," he said. "I doubt whether UN inspectors ever visited it." He himself had clambered down into a vast underground cavern.
He learnt of the successful test from Uday, who, he said, was unable to conceal his jubilation. "They were talking about the test, about their ability to produce a nuclear bomb. They were talking about a new powerful Iraq," said Janabi.
Was it definitely a nuclear test? "Definitely. There is no doubt about that. It was a small nuclear test." Who had supplied the highly enriched uranium for the bomb?South Africa, he said, via South America.
He claimed to know the person who had negotiated with the South Africans. "He was talking about 50kg. Negotiations began in 1986 and the delivery was made in 1988."
In the mid-1990s, on a Channel 4 investigation, I visited Valindaba, the facility near Pretoria which produced South Africa's bomb-grade uranium. Officially, I was told the plant never achieved its design output because of technical problems. In its lifetime, it was said to have produced weapons-grade uranium for only six or seven devices. But a plant supervisor let slip that it had functioned flawlessly from 1976 until 1989. It could have produced enough for 20 simple uranium bombs.
scubadoo
Active Member
Then a barrage of near-smoking guns opened up. Document after document from Saddam's files was posted unread on the public website, each one describing how to make a nuclear bomb in more detail than the last. These documents, dated just before the war, show that Saddam had accumulated just about every secret there was for the construction of nuclear weapons. The Iraqi intelligence files contain so much accurate information on the atom bomb that the translators’ public website had to be closed for reasons of national security.
If Saddam had nuclear weapons facilities, where was he hiding them? Iraqi informants showed US investigators where Saddam had constructed huge underwater storage facilities beneath the Euphrates River. The tunnel entrances were still sealed with tons of concrete. The US investigators who approached the sealed entrances were later determined to have been exposed to radiation. Incredibly, their reports were lost in the postwar confusion, and Saddam’s underground nuclear storage sites were left unguarded for the next three years. Still, the eyewitness testimony about the sealed underwater warehouses matched with radiation exposure is strong circumstantial evidence that some amount of radioactive material was still present in Iraq on the day the war began.
Our volunteer researchers discovered the actual movement order from the Iraqi high command ordering all the remaining special equipment to be moved into the underground sites only a few weeks before the onset of the war. The date of the movement order suggests that President Bush, who clearly knew nothing of the specifics of the underground nuclear sites, or even that a nuclear weapons program still existed in Iraq, may have been accidentally correct about the main point of the war: the discovery of Saddam’s secret nuclear program, even in hindsight, arguably provides sufficient legal justification for the previous use of force.
Saddam’s nuclear documents compel any reasonable person to the conclusion that, more probably than not, there were in fact nuclear WMD sites, components, and programs hidden inside Iraq at the time the Coalition forces invaded. In view of these newly discovered documents, it can be concluded, more probably than not, that Saddam did have a nuclear weapons program in 2001-2002, and that it is reasonably certain that he would have continued his efforts towards making a nuclear bomb in 2003 had he not been stopped by the Coalition forces. Four years after the war began, we still do not have all the answers, but we have many of them. Ninety percent of the Saddam files have never been read, let alone translated. It is time to utterly reject the conventional wisdom that there were no WMD in Iraq and look to the best evidence: Saddam’s own files on WMD. The truth is what it is, the documents speak for themselves.
John Loftus is President of IntelligenceSummit.org, which is entirely free of government funding, and depends solely upon private contributions for its support. The full research paper on Iraqi WMD, along with the supporting documents and photographs can be found at www.LoftusReport.com
If Saddam had nuclear weapons facilities, where was he hiding them? Iraqi informants showed US investigators where Saddam had constructed huge underwater storage facilities beneath the Euphrates River. The tunnel entrances were still sealed with tons of concrete. The US investigators who approached the sealed entrances were later determined to have been exposed to radiation. Incredibly, their reports were lost in the postwar confusion, and Saddam’s underground nuclear storage sites were left unguarded for the next three years. Still, the eyewitness testimony about the sealed underwater warehouses matched with radiation exposure is strong circumstantial evidence that some amount of radioactive material was still present in Iraq on the day the war began.
Our volunteer researchers discovered the actual movement order from the Iraqi high command ordering all the remaining special equipment to be moved into the underground sites only a few weeks before the onset of the war. The date of the movement order suggests that President Bush, who clearly knew nothing of the specifics of the underground nuclear sites, or even that a nuclear weapons program still existed in Iraq, may have been accidentally correct about the main point of the war: the discovery of Saddam’s secret nuclear program, even in hindsight, arguably provides sufficient legal justification for the previous use of force.
Saddam’s nuclear documents compel any reasonable person to the conclusion that, more probably than not, there were in fact nuclear WMD sites, components, and programs hidden inside Iraq at the time the Coalition forces invaded. In view of these newly discovered documents, it can be concluded, more probably than not, that Saddam did have a nuclear weapons program in 2001-2002, and that it is reasonably certain that he would have continued his efforts towards making a nuclear bomb in 2003 had he not been stopped by the Coalition forces. Four years after the war began, we still do not have all the answers, but we have many of them. Ninety percent of the Saddam files have never been read, let alone translated. It is time to utterly reject the conventional wisdom that there were no WMD in Iraq and look to the best evidence: Saddam’s own files on WMD. The truth is what it is, the documents speak for themselves.
John Loftus is President of IntelligenceSummit.org, which is entirely free of government funding, and depends solely upon private contributions for its support. The full research paper on Iraqi WMD, along with the supporting documents and photographs can be found at www.LoftusReport.com
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
My son is prety much unpolitical but his wife is a certified Bush hater. Her only comment is Bush needs to get his schnyt together so they can finish the job and come home. My son says if there are guys that think we shouldn't be there most must keep the opinion to themsleves because he has only ever heard a couple of guys whining about it. Most of them just want to finish the job and come home which seems to fall in line with what most other people say they hear from their relatives in the Army.
yeah, pretty much, who in their right minds want to be somewear that has camel spiders, and gets over 110 degrees, and there are people shooting at you. War is not a plesent experience. But I've only spoken with one returning soldier who was a bush hater. and did not support his policy. But he wasn't very credible before he was in the military.
My son is prety much unpolitical but his wife is a certified Bush hater. Her only comment is Bush needs to get his schnyt together so they can finish the job and come home. My son says if there are guys that think we shouldn't be there most must keep the opinion to themsleves because he has only ever heard a couple of guys whining about it. Most of them just want to finish the job and come home which seems to fall in line with what most other people say they hear from their relatives in the Army.
yeah, pretty much, who in their right minds want to be somewear that has camel spiders, and gets over 110 degrees, and there are people shooting at you. War is not a plesent experience. But I've only spoken with one returning soldier who was a bush hater. and did not support his policy. But he wasn't very credible before he was in the military.
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
interesting perspective...
You know the name of that report? I'd love to read it.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=38213
interesting perspective...
You know the name of that report? I'd love to read it.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=38213
scubadoo
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
I'm still dumbfounded by this guy.
I've provided info for him/her to 'comment" on. I doubt much will be served back in return.
My point is.....a Saddam in power in a post 9/11 world is a danger.... period. he has already demonstrated he will use WMD.
THe idea of being proactive is to take the bad guys out before they take you out and/or support folks that will. We can all argue over the order the rats, roaches and mice should be squashed. ...but difficult for me to see how Saddam should have been ignored....and that somehow...the horrible loss of life is not worth the protection of freedom for all.
No thanks needed for the zero attacks here on US soil since 9/11.
Carry on.
I'm still dumbfounded by this guy.
I've provided info for him/her to 'comment" on. I doubt much will be served back in return.
My point is.....a Saddam in power in a post 9/11 world is a danger.... period. he has already demonstrated he will use WMD.
THe idea of being proactive is to take the bad guys out before they take you out and/or support folks that will. We can all argue over the order the rats, roaches and mice should be squashed. ...but difficult for me to see how Saddam should have been ignored....and that somehow...the horrible loss of life is not worth the protection of freedom for all.
No thanks needed for the zero attacks here on US soil since 9/11.
Carry on.
mfp1016
Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
My son is prety much unpolitical but his wife is a certified Bush hater. Her only comment is Bush needs to get his schnyt together so they can finish the job and come home. My son says if there are guys that think we shouldn't be there most must keep the opinion to themsleves because he has only ever heard a couple of guys whining about it. Most of them just want to finish the job and come home which seems to fall in line with what most other people say they hear from their relatives in the Army.
I hear somewhat similar things, but what I hear the most is that most of the troops agree that their presence there has had a profoundly positive effect on the Iraqi people. Regardless of Bush, Saddam, agendas, WMDs; the stories I hear point to soldiers doing good things for the local population.
If anyone is wondering......I speak to my nephew, a Major, through Skype on a 2-4/week basis. He has been nice enough to let me talk to some of his troops directly to try to ascertain their experiences and thoughts.
My son is prety much unpolitical but his wife is a certified Bush hater. Her only comment is Bush needs to get his schnyt together so they can finish the job and come home. My son says if there are guys that think we shouldn't be there most must keep the opinion to themsleves because he has only ever heard a couple of guys whining about it. Most of them just want to finish the job and come home which seems to fall in line with what most other people say they hear from their relatives in the Army.
I hear somewhat similar things, but what I hear the most is that most of the troops agree that their presence there has had a profoundly positive effect on the Iraqi people. Regardless of Bush, Saddam, agendas, WMDs; the stories I hear point to soldiers doing good things for the local population.
If anyone is wondering......I speak to my nephew, a Major, through Skype on a 2-4/week basis. He has been nice enough to let me talk to some of his troops directly to try to ascertain their experiences and thoughts.