Rylan and Obama supporters please defend this stance for me.

dogfaceman

dogfaceman

Member

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2723329
Here is an exmple from the woman that first strted pushing this bill.
"One night, a nursing co-worker was taking an aborted Down’s syndrome baby who was born alive to our Soiled Utility Room because his parents did not want to hold him, and she did not have time to hold him. I could not bear the thought of this suffering child dying alone in a Soiled Utility Room, so I cradled and rocked him for the 45 minutes that he lived. He was 21 to 22 weeks old, weighed about ½ pound, and was about 10 inches long. He was too weak to move very much, expending any energy he had trying to breathe. Toward the end, he was so quiet that I couldn’t tell if he was still alive unless I held him up to the light to see if his heart was still beating through his chest wall. After he was pronounced dead, we folded his little arms across his chest, wrapped him in a tiny shroud, and carried him to the hospital morgue where all of our dead patients are taken."
Now tell me this, the baby is .5 lbs, and still lived for 45 minutes. It even had down's syndrome. If it was given medical treatment, might it have lived? Might it gone on to have a life that other down's syndrome people have? You take people off life support they die in meer minutes. This baby was given no life support and still lived 45 minutes. How can a person NOT vote to give this baby a chance?
Rylan, please do not get sidetracked. This is a very critical issue as it shows a lack of human compassion.
How can a professed christian as Obama claims to be, stand by and allow a born alive baby to be allowed to die and given no chance to continue living?
He probably doesn't take his religion into his political stance... like all politicians should do. have you ever heard of separation of church and state?
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
Agreed.
And now we are going to hear about the fact that this country was founded on Christian principles........
 
dogfaceman

dogfaceman

Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2723548
Agreed.
And now we are going to hear about the fact that this country was founded on Christian principles........
and then we will hear about how the christian religion was founded on jewish and pagan principles
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by dogfaceman
http:///forum/post/2723545
He probably doesn't take his religion into his political stance... like all politicians should do. have you ever heard of separation of church and state?
you mean that phrase that was it thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter?
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html
To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
You misunderstand me. I didn't think you were joking. I was laughing at the little face....lol. I know you are correct.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2723539
I know it to be a fact, Roll your eyes all you want. I was in the Marine Corps when this happened. All of us knew he was lying. I knew the Marines in the infantry unit personally that were involved. The were stationed on Camp Pendleton. Period. He is and has been dead for YEARS now. And officially I am done talking about it. I will even give you my phone number if you want to talk about it because this probably isn't the place to argue.
This is what I honestly think, I'm not knocking you in any way. But if this has been factually confirmed, (body or however they do it). there is no way that the media or Bush would be sitting on it. As far as the media goes, they'd print it because that would be news, regardless of their views on war. Bush wouldn't sit on it, because it would have been politically good for the sob to be dead. Besides can you imagine the field day the media would have if say a anti-bush marine came out and said, I killed em, and we are still here anyway, so bush could <insert dem theory here>
I don't think the media would go with a cover up for 6 years look at the stories regarding the "secret european toture prisons" ect. They didn't sit on those for very long.
If it is unconfirmed then the guy could be mistaken or really have gotten him but can't prove it.
I personally wouldn't be suprised if the latter has taken place, just don't think there has been any "cover up".
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2723449
no, I simply like his plans and directions more than I like McCain's... I don't like what has happened the last 8 years.. and I am voting Obama because I believe he will change our current course and improve our lives as Americans

What direction, Hope, CHange? To what? Obama is so busy contridicting himself nobody has a clear picture what his grand plan is. I know he thinks the way to lower gas prices is to increase the oil companies cost of production by raising their taxes. Anyone who was awake during HS economics knows what happens when the price of doing business goes up. Maybe obs was out smoking reefer and catching waves during that class

Bush has been rightfully criticized for allowing the budget to grow too large. Obama wants to spend more than Bush dreamed of. How is that change?
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2723579
This is what I honestly think, I'm not knocking you in any way. But if this has been factually confirmed, (body or however they do it). there is no way that the media or Bush would be sitting on it. As far as the media goes, they'd print it because that would be news, regardless of their views on war. Bush wouldn't sit on it, because it would have been politically good for the sob to be dead. Besides can you imagine the field day the media would have if say a anti-bush marine came out and said, I killed em, and we are still here anyway, so bush could <insert dem theory here>
I don't think the media would go with a cover up for 6 years look at the stories regarding the "secret european toture prisons" ect. They didn't sit on those for very long.
If it is unconfirmed then the guy could be mistaken or really have gotten him but can't prove it.
I personally wouldn't be suprised if the latter has taken place, just don't think there has been any "cover up".
Yes it would be politically correct. But not financially. He couldn't keep justifying his use of tax money for the war if people knew he was dead obviously. And did anyone notice how they suddenly stopped looking for him one day and started going after Sadaam? Most of the public didn't but it was very sudden. That was because he DIED. No one is supposed to honestly know this but I am not bound by any laws anymore to not tell people. I am tired of people thinking that Bush did this out of his good nature or his great leadership of this country.
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
It's cool if no one believes me. I may not either under the same circumstances. But I was there, you weren't.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2723589
Yes it would be politically correct. But not financially. He couldn't keep justifying his use of tax money for the war if people knew he was dead obviously. And did anyone notice how they suddenly stopped looking for him one day and started going after Sadaam?

I don't think that it would have made a difference. Obama dead or alive. Bush was villified before Sadaam was captured, just as much as he was villified after he was captured. But still was able to get appropriations after Sadaam was hung. He would have gotten the war appropriated.
 
coraljunkie

coraljunkie

Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2723603
I don't think that it would have made a difference. Obama dead or alive. Bush was villified before Sadaam was captured, just as much as he was villified after he was captured. But still was able to get appropriations after Sadaam was hung. He would have gotten the war appropriated.
Agreed.
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
You are prolly right. It was easier that way though. I am just saddened all the way around by everything. I got so tired of hearing about people that I had served with that had been killed for no reason. It honestly still makes me nauseous to hear about Bush talk about the war on terrorism. I love our country and hate that we are using our force to control other countries and how they govern themselves. It wasn't too long ago that it was done to us.
 
hlcroghan

hlcroghan

Active Member
Okay CoralJunkie, how would I have proof? Be serious. I don't have his teeth under my pillow. This was a conversation between a Corporal and some other Marines that had been in the infantry unit that bombed the house where he was hiding and myself. There was no reason for them to lie. Although I guess they could have been......I very seriously doubt it.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2723610
You are prolly right. It was easier that way though. I am just saddened all the way around by everything. I got so tired of hearing about people that I had served with that had been killed for no reason. It honestly still makes me nauseous to hear about Bush talk about the war on terrorism. I love our country and hate that we are using our force to control other countries and how they govern themselves. It wasn't too long ago that it was done to us.
Politically the difference is, we are going to leave... Iraq isn't going to fight us to get out of our country.
The thing that bugs me, is that we as flawed as it is, really have compared to other countries have the best political system. We are the longest standing country with the current form of government. It has allowed for great prosperity, equality, and freedom. But when we try to teach our system to others, it is "hate that we are using our force to control other countries and how they govern themselves."
Why should we keep our knowledge to ourselves?
 
coraljunkie

coraljunkie

Member
I find it hard to believe that we can get pictures of the mistreatment of prisoners in abu garib but not one picture has leaked of a dead Osama Bin Laden????? Come on? I respect your service to this country and applaud you for doing so but I just find this very hard to believe.
 
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