Sailfin Tang problem

[the_bandit]

So here is the story of what happened last night.
I bought a water clarifier by Seachem a couple weeks ago and have used it a few times on my 55g reef and 40g Mantis/Reef tank. No ill effects when I did dose. I decided to dose my 55g last night because it was looking murky. I did a water change about 2 weeks ago and havent added anything at all to the tank. No fish, coral, supplements, chemicals, or new equipment. About an hour after dosing, I look at my tank and to my horror, my year old sailfin tang is laying on its side inside a cave. I had no clue what happened.
The tang looked and still looks perfectly fine. No Ich, no HLLE, no getting harassed, it was eating nori like a hog the same day. I have no clue what was wrong. It was breathing rapidly, having a hard time swimming and fighting the current. All my other fish were acting normal. Clowns, LMB, Watchmen goby, damnsel, and corals were all open.
I decided against my better judgement to place it in my Mantis tank. The mantis tank is a 40g breeder with a Peacock Mantis, 2 Tomatoe Clowns and a 3 Stripped Damnsel. After placing it in this tank, it has gotten about 80% better. Swimming normal, eating, picking at rocks, swimming with the rest of the fish, investigating my Mantis. It still swims a little off and is not as active as it was two days ago.
I have two questions.
1. Can I keep this 2 1/2'' Tang in my 40g breeder for a while? There is plently of open swim space and rocks to pick off of where as my 55g all the rocks are stacked and compact with not alot of swim space or algae to eat off of the rocks. Ive seen Purple tangs in 40g breeders that became TOTM on R C.
2. What the *&@! was going on with the Tang last night??

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by The_Bandit
http:///forum/post/3202452
So here is the story of what happened last night.
I bought a water clarifier by Seachem a couple weeks ago and have used it a few times on my 55g reef and 40g Mantis/Reef tank. No ill effects when I did dose. I decided to dose my 55g last night because it was looking murky. I did a water change about 2 weeks ago and havent added anything at all to the tank. No fish, coral, supplements, chemicals, or new equipment. About an hour after dosing, I look at my tank and to my horror, my year old sailfin tang is laying on its side inside a cave. I had no clue what happened.
The tang looked and still looks perfectly fine. No Ich, no HLLE, no getting harassed, it was eating nori like a hog the same day. I have no clue what was wrong. It was breathing rapidly, having a hard time swimming and fighting the current. All my other fish were acting normal. Clowns, LMB, Watchmen goby, damnsel, and corals were all open.
I decided against my better judgement to place it in my Mantis tank. The mantis tank is a 40g breeder with a Peacock Mantis, 2 Tomatoe Clowns and a 3 Stripped Damnsel. After placing it in this tank, it has gotten about 80% better. Swimming normal, eating, picking at rocks, swimming with the rest of the fish, investigating my Mantis. It still swims a little off and is not as active as it was two days ago.
I have two questions.
1. Can I keep this 2 1/2'' Tang in my 40g breeder for a while? There is plently of open swim space and rocks to pick off of where as my 55g all the rocks are stacked and compact with not alot of swim space or algae to eat off of the rocks. Ive seen Purple tangs in 40g breeders that became TOTM on R C.
2. What the *&@! was going on with the Tang last night??
Is there any specific reason why you were using the tank clarifier? I've heard that they're okay (and I have used the one made by Corallife and it's been fine). I've also heard that they chemicals go bad in them fairly quickly and you shouldn't use them for more than 2-3 months.

Since everyone else is fine, I don't think this is your issue though.
I also have a Sailfin, I have seen her get picked on by my watchman goby and blenny (especially the blenny) if she gets too close to their "turf". If she tries to pick on the same rocks as the blenny, he will chase her off. She may have gotten chased and stressed out. They do get stressed very easily, especially when they're young.
I think the 40G might be a good idea right now. My only concern is that if it starts to act poorly again, the mantis may strike at the opportunity so try to keep the mantis well fed while the tang is in there.
What do you feed the tang? Do you give it vitamins?
Sounds like a stress issue to me.

 

[the_bandit]

The Seachem Wat clarifier was less than a month old. I just used it because my tank looked cloudy. No real reason.
My tang was the boss of the 55g. Would chase the LMB and Watchmen whenever she was swimming by. I doubt it was being picked on by anything.
There has not been any added stress to the tang. No rediculous water changes, no stirring up the rocks or SB, no new salt, new light. I cant think of anything that could have stressed it out. It was eating perfectly fine right before I added the water clarifier.
The tang has dominated the Mantis tank. When the poor mantis popped her head out to see what the tang was doing, it flared up and scared my mantis back into her hole. But If I do see any changes any behavior I will make sure it is delt with.
I feed my tank frozen krill, brine shrimp, marine cuisine, and emerald entree along with Green/Red Nori sheets almost everyday. I dont give them vitamens because I saw no indications there was a problem with any fish in any of my tanks.
The only possible reason I can see this behavior happeneing is when I dosed the tank with the clarifier, the tang assumed it was feeding time and swam to the surface. It possibly could have ingested some of the chemical, making her act as if she was having a hard time breathing. Other than that, I am at a loss.

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by The_Bandit
http:///forum/post/3202489
The Seachem Wat clarifier was less than a month old. I just used it because my tank looked cloudy. No real reason.
My tang was the boss of the 55g. Would chase the LMB and Watchmen whenever she was swimming by. I doubt it was being picked on by anything.
There has not been any added stress to the tang. No rediculous water changes, no stirring up the rocks or SB, no new salt, new light. I cant think of anything that could have stressed it out. It was eating perfectly fine right before I added the water clarifier.
The tang has dominated the Mantis tank. When the poor mantis popped her head out to see what the tang was doing, it flared up and scared my mantis back into her hole. But If I do see any changes any behavior I will make sure it is delt with.
I feed my tank frozen krill, brine shrimp, marine cuisine, and emerald entree along with Green/Red Nori sheets almost everyday. I dont give them vitamens because I saw no indications there was a problem with any fish in any of my tanks.
The only possible reason I can see this behavior happeneing is when I dosed the tank with the clarifier, the tang assumed it was feeding time and swam to the surface. It possibly could have ingested some of the chemical, making her act as if she was having a hard time breathing. Other than that, I am at a loss.
Very likely that that it was just stressed, especially if she's acting normal now. Could have been the chemical, maybe not. Either way, I wouldn't add it anymore. When I use mine, I add it to the sump because the fish do the same thing, they think it's feeding time whenever something new drops in the tank.
I'd leave it in the 40G for a few more days, or until you feel comfortable that it's doing better.
+1 on the Emerald Entree! Great stuff!
I add vitamins to my food regardless, just to keep the fish healthy. I've never had any issues health wise, but I don't want any either.
Good luck with the tang!

 

[the_bandit]

Thank you for the input. My mind was boggling as to why it was reacting this way.
How long should I keep the tang in for? Seems to be thriving in the 40br.

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by The_Bandit
http:///forum/post/3202589
Thank you for the input. My mind was boggling as to why it was reacting this way.
How long should I keep the tang in for? Seems to be thriving in the 40br.
If it seems fine, I'd just play it by ear. Personally, I'd wait until after you do the next water change in your tank.

 

[the_bandit]

Ok. Thanks for the advice.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by BTLDreef
http:///forum/post/3202632
If it seems fine, I'd just play it by ear. Personally, I'd wait until after you do the next water change in your tank.
+1...
You'll also want to, in the future, try to address root causes rather than symptoms. If the tank is cloudy, try to understand why it is cloudly rather than dumping in a chemical that attacks the symptom rather than the cause. For all you know, it was what was making the water cloudy that affected the tang, not your additive.

 

[ericjn]

Ok, since this post is about sailfin tangs I thought I'd ask a question as well. Its more for my dad but we still have had an odd expirence with a sail fin. I dont mean to take away from your question but maybe you have somthing that we can have for some closeur. My dad got a sail fin about 3 months ago (probly his all time fave fish) it ate well loved to swim up in the current. He was shy but that was all, however after about a month and a half he started to get darker. the next few weeks darker, and darker until we saw him laying on his side struggling. saddly to say he died about a few weeks later. My question is what in the world happened to the poor guy no other fish has had a problem just the sailfin, We are still at a confused state my dad has been afraid to get another sailfin because of this weird thing that happened....Any info on that?

 

[scsinet]

More info would be required. Water parameters are important, but if you don't have have ones from when he died written down, new ones today won't help much.
Tank size, tankmates, tank age, and food would probably be useful to know.
Sailfins, like many fish, can darken or lighten at will, but it's unusual for one to darken and stay dark. I am reluctant to mention this because IMO it's something that often gets blamed falsely, but when fish are collected with cyanide, they often die about 4-6 weeks after collection. Another symptom of cyanide is unusually bright coloration. It is perhaps possible that the sailfin didn't darken, but rather returned to his natural coloration... however, cyanide gets blamed too often. Hobbyists are quick to blame it because then they don't have to admit that they screwed up somehow - so I only mention it as a possibility, not a likely scenario.

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/3204241
More info would be required. Water parameters are important, but if you don't have have ones from when he died written down, new ones today won't help much.
Tank size, tankmates, tank age, and food would probably be useful to know.
Sailfins, like many fish, can darken or lighten at will, but it's unusual for one to darken and stay dark. I am reluctant to mention this because IMO it's something that often gets blamed falsely, but when fish are collected with cyanide, they often die about 4-6 weeks after collection. Another symptom of cyanide is unusually bright coloration. It is perhaps possible that the sailfin didn't darken, but rather returned to his natural coloration... however, cyanide gets blamed too often. Hobbyists are quick to blame it because then they don't have to admit that they screwed up somehow - so I only mention it as a possibility, not a likely scenario.
Yes, more info is definitely needed.
Highly doubt that cyanide was the case. Cyanide is used more for smaller schooling fish such as anthias and chromis than with tangs (makes their colors pop like crazy for a few weeks, then they just fade away as does the health of the fish). I don't think cyanide is the case here, it usually isn't, but like you mention, people like to use it because then they have someone or something to blame than admit fault.

[hr]
Darker sailfins that don't lighten back up are usually not healthy from my own personal experience. It is usually a sign of stress if they stay this way. Again, they're tangs and can stress easily. My sailfin is usually on the lighter side (she's extremely healthy) and she darkens at night and when she's stressed. My Blonde Naso does the same exact thing as well.

 

[ericjn]

yea I dont know the parameters cus well its my dads tank. But from what he was saying and from what I can remember everything was normal, he has a book somewhere he checks his water once a week and records it. So Maybe well have to look into that book to see the conditions. But I was always used to seeing stressed fish get lighter and lose there color this fish slowly turned almost all black and it was just a mystery I was thinking that maybe my dad needs to get some diff food cus all his fish eat is form 2 dried seaweed and brine shrimp. As far as tank mates go......Foxface rabbit fish, striped dog face pufferfish, dragon golby, huma huma trigger (small like and inch and a half). the tank is a 55 gal while he waits to save his money for somthing larger.

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by ericjn
http:///forum/post/3204292
yea I dont know the parameters cus well its my dads tank. But from what he was saying and from what I can remember everything was normal, he has a book somewhere he checks his water once a week and records it. So Maybe well have to look into that book to see the conditions. But I was always used to seeing stressed fish get lighter and lose there color this fish slowly turned almost all black and it was just a mystery I was thinking that maybe my dad needs to get some diff food cus all his fish eat is form 2 dried seaweed and brine shrimp. As far as tank mates go......Foxface rabbit fish, striped dog face pufferfish, dragon golby, huma huma trigger (small like and inch and a half). the tank is a 55 gal while he waits to save his money for somthing larger.
Feeding your fish brine shrimp as a main part of their diet is like giving a child candy as their main diet. Brine has almost no nutritional value.
Yes, most fish will lighten up in color, sailfins tend to do either, but consistently getting darker is usually associated with stress.
Sounds like stress from a few factors:
1) Too many aggressive fish in a small environment, making them more territorial towards a new fish.
2) lack of a proper healthy diet
3) not enough space

 

[ericjn]

see i thought it was diet problems, myself cus he seemed to be calm around everyone else in the tank he has been looking into getting a 150 gal but since his work have been iffy on the economy he wants to put just a lil away for it. hes been saving like 20 per paycheck for the past 2 months so im hoping he can get a bigger tank soon... I herd mysis is good in nutrition is that a good substitute for brine?
p.s. sorry about my bad spelling.....and I is a college student lol haha

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by BTLDreef
http:///forum/post/3204302
Feeding your fish brine shrimp as a main part of their diet is like giving a child candy as their main diet. Brine has almost no nutritional value.
Yes, most fish will lighten up in color, sailfins tend to do either, but consistently getting darker is usually associated with stress.
Sounds like stress from a few factors:
1) Too many aggressive fish in a small environment, making them more territorial towards a new fish.
2) lack of a proper healthy diet
3) not enough space
HEY...candy is great

I love turtles

 

[ericjn]

Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3204310
HEY...candy is great

I love turtles

I love lamp

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by ericjn
http:///forum/post/3204308
see i thought it was diet problems, myself cus he seemed to be calm around everyone else in the tank he has been looking into getting a 150 gal but since his work have been iffy on the economy he wants to put just a lil away for it. hes been saving like 20 per paycheck for the past 2 months so im hoping he can get a bigger tank soon... I herd mysis is good in nutrition is that a good substitute for brine?
p.s. sorry about my bad spelling.....and I is a college student lol haha
Yes. PE Mysis is really the best, IMO.
I am not a fan of flake or pellet food and neither are my fish.
For a tang, Seaweed strips (mine prefer red and brown algae strips, won't touch green seaweed), lots of LR to pick on and a good quality frozen food designed for omnivores (such as San Francisco Bay Brand Emerald Entree - my tangs devour this stuff). The Seaweed/Algae strips should NOT be the main part of their diet. They need to receive algae/greens from other sources as well (that's where a good prepared food and the LR comes in). In a 55G, there just isn't enough LR for a growing sailfin to pick at. They grow quickly, and therefore have a rapid metabolism and eat like pigs. Some sailfins are more picky about what they eat, mine would eat my finger if I waved it in front of her for long enough

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by BTLDreef
http:///forum/post/3204335
Yes. PE Mysis is really the best, IMO.
I am not a fan of flake or pellet food and neither are my fish.
For a tang, Seaweed strips (mine prefer red and brown algae strips, won't touch green seaweed), lots of LR to pick on and a good quality frozen food designed for omnivores (such as San Francisco Bay Brand Emerald Entree - my tangs devour this stuff). The Seaweed/Algae strips should NOT be the main part of their diet. They need to receive algae/greens from other sources as well (that's where a good prepared food and the LR comes in). In a 55G, there just isn't enough LR for a growing sailfin to pick at. They grow quickly, and therefore have a rapid metabolism and eat like pigs. Some sailfins are more picky about what they eat, mine would eat my finger if I waved it in front of her for long enough

OMG.....Mine tear the green apart....you would think they are starving...LOL
I also agree with the fact that a 55G is wayyyyy too small for a sailfin

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3204338
OMG.....Mine tear the green apart....you would think they are starving...LOL
I also agree with the fact that a 55G is wayyyyy too small for a sailfin
I think it's just my tangs that won't eat green.
Does your green seaweed have or do you add garlic? My red and brown both have garlic added to it. I've tried a couple different brands of green with no luck.

I think they just know that the red/brown cost me more

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by BTLDreef
http:///forum/post/3204354
I think it's just my tangs that won't eat green.
Does your green seaweed have or do you add garlic? My red and brown both have garlic added to it. I've tried a couple different brands of green with no luck.

I think they just know that the red/brown cost me more

It's the Ocean Nutrition that says it has added garlic....I also have brown, red, and purple

I thought a variety would be nice