Sand in a QT? Hypo questions...

[m0nk]

Here's the background; I was dumb (I'll admit it) and trusted the LFS that their QT of a baby blue tang was sufficient since I didn't have a QT setup at the time. This tang has introduced ich into my DT. I now need to split the 5 fish out into 2 tanks:
I have a 12 gallon tank that's been running for about 9 months now that has all the rock moved out and I'm in the process of setting up a 10 gallon that a friend gave me with some of the sand and water from the other 2 tanks and cycling with small bit of live rock as well. My question is this: for hypo, should the sand in the 12 gallon be totally removed or can it stay in there? I have no need to keep the sand live, but I'm curious if any die off will occur that could crash the tank during the hypo process.
Also, I understand that if a fish is covered with ich, in the meantime while the QT setups cycle, that the fish can be given a freshwater dip. Do I just catch it in a net, rest it in a cup of freshwater for a second, then put it back in the tank? Any other suggestions until things can be setup and ready?
Thanks!

 

[sepulatian]

Don't do a fw dip. It can be extremely stressful to the fish if it is not done correctly. If the fish is covered in ich, pick up a bottle of Methylene blue. Take water out of your display tank and put it in a bucket along with a small heater (if needed) and a powerhead. Add the fish to the bucket then add the methylene blue. The fish can stay in there for a few hours. The dip will help knock some of the parasites off, it will sooth the gills, and calm the fish down. As for the sand, that can be left in. The bacteria on it will not die.

 

[m0nk]

Thanks for the info. Since the 12 gallon is cycled I'll just move the hippo and 2 clowns into that and start hypo tomorrow after picking up the refractometer. Once the 10 is cycled I'll put my firefish and royal gramma in that one (though the royal gramma is getting pretty covered too, hope he makes it) to start them off as well.
What a stressful event, but I suppose I brought it on myself by being stupid and too trustful.

 

[9g]

12g is tiny.

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by 9g
12g is tiny.
So is the hippo. It's no more that 1.5 inches long.

 

[al mc]

Monk....I once hypo'd a dog face puffer, foxface and 2 chromis in a 15 gallon tank...so you can do it in a 12 gallon. I did frequent water changes......Good luck

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
Monk....I once hypo'd a dog face puffer, foxface and 2 chromis in a 15 gallon tank...so you can do it in a 12 gallon. I did frequent water changes......Good luck
Thanks! I was worried about doing them all in 1 tank, but was lucky that a friend had a 10 gallon setup to donate, so I'm splitting them between the 2 tanks for hypo. I am, though, having a real tough time getting the tang into a net or even tricking it into the plastic bin. The clowns weren't too bad (though one jumped ship in the process, but he's quite happy now). I'm going to try again in the morning to get the hippo out. I thought about trying when she's sleeping but would that stress her out too much?

 

[sepulatian]

I am a little concered about the 10 gallon. What are you planning to use for biological filtration? They cannot all go into a 12 gallon (as you are aware). Can you move some of the LS into the 10 gallon? You will have to take the rock out, just mentioning it but I am sure that you know. Be certain to mix up PLENTY of water at 1.009. Check the ph of the water often, it has a tendency to drop in hypo. Be sure that the mix is properly buffered. If you have any questions durring the process, please do not hesitate to ask

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
I am a little concered about the 10 gallon. What are you planning to use for biological filtration? They cannot all go into a 12 gallon (as you are aware). Can you move some of the LS into the 10 gallon? You will have to take the rock out, just mentioning it but I am sure that you know. Be certain to mix up PLENTY of water at 1.009. Check the ph of the water often, it has a tendency to drop in hypo. Be sure that the mix is properly buffered. If you have any questions durring the process, please do not hesitate to ask

I put some sand in there, it's not enough to cover the entire bottom but there is some. I also put the thermometer from the 12 gallon into it, since it's got some coraline and likely bacteria buildup, plus a couple ugly plastic ornaments. Will that work?
So when you say to buffer, what should be used for that? I'll be sure to be ready for the regular water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite levels at 0.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by m0nk
I put some sand in there, it's not enough to cover the entire bottom but there is some. I also put the thermometer from the 12 gallon into it, since it's got some coraline and likely bacteria buildup, plus a couple ugly plastic ornaments. Will that work?
So when you say to buffer, what should be used for that? I'll be sure to be ready for the regular water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite levels at 0.

I hope it does work. I would feel better if you had more biological filtration though. Since you have to qt in a tank that was just started then you did the best that you can. Watch those levels every single day. Also be sure to watch the SG every day. Twice a day is better. You will be on a fine line. If the SG raises above 1.009 then ich can re-attatch. Be sure to check it and top off very often.

 

[m0nk]

Well, after a rough night of trying to get the fish out of the DT and into the QT (just the hippo and clowns) I'm ready to go. To get the hippo out I had to wait until she was sleeping behind a powerhead, then gently nudged her into the net...
So I got a calibrated refractometer today and with the first test of the 12 gallon water I saw that my SG was 1.024 and I thought it was 1.025 based on the hydrometer....so I got my first taste of the discrepancy. I've started to slowly replace tank water with RO water and will be working to get the SG down to 1.021 by morning, 1.017 by tomorrow night at this time, 1.014 by Tuesday morning, and 1.009 by Tuesday night. I figure watching for these measurements help me pace the progress. I also got some Marine Buffer just in case the pH gets way too low.
Guess that's about it, this is going to be quite an experience, but hopefully everything will survive (sans ich) and I'll have learned a valuable lesson. I guess it's also nice to have the refractometer too, since it's more accurate.

 

[sepulatian]

I am surprised that your hydrometer was that close. .001 diffrence is pretty good. Have you placed some RO on the refractometer just to be certain that it reads zero? Your plan looks good. When are you planning to catch the other fish? If you need help with anything, just ask. We are all here.

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
I am surprised that your hydrometer was that close. .001 diffrence is pretty good. Have you placed some RO on the refractometer just to be certain that it reads zero? Your plan looks good. When are you planning to catch the other fish? If you need help with anything, just ask. We are all here.
Thanks, I certainly appreciate the support; not sure what I would have done without this site and your help on this one especially.
I actually just did that with the RO water and the reading came out correct.
I've been watching the readings on the 10 gallon and haven't seen any ammonia or nitrites yet. It's been running for about 30 hours at this point. Could it have skipped a real cycle? I thought at least something would have kicked up in the process of moving sand into it...

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by m0nk
Thanks, I certainly appreciate the support; not sure what I would have done without this site and your help on this one especially.
I actually just did that with the RO water and the reading came out correct.
I've been watching the readings on the 10 gallon and haven't seen any ammonia or nitrites yet. It's been running for about 30 hours at this point. Could it have skipped a real cycle? I thought at least something would have kicked up in the process of moving sand into it...
Just go with the 10. It is not going to have an ammonia spike in 2 days anyway. Those fish need to come out. Just make sure that you have water mixed for changes. Don't start counting the 6 weeks of an empty tank until those fish are out.

 

[m0nk]

Just an update. The hippo was almost covered with ich when I got her and the clowns into the 12. I started dropping the salinity Sunday night and finished Tuesday night. As of today she's looking great, I don't see a single spot. I won't start the 3 week countdown to raise it back up until I've been able to watch her consistently for the next day or two just to be sure, since I know there was still at least one or two spots yesterday, but these 3 fish are doing great.
As for the other two, it took me nearly all week to figure out a way to get them out. I tried a few things and nothing worked, so finally yesterday I put all my rock into buckets with tank water

and finally got them out and acclimated to the 10. I haven't started hypo there since the process to extract them was pretty stressful (to me and to them) so I'll probably start that tomorrow or Monday. 6 week countdown starts today.

It sure was tough getting to them, and I've learned a valuable lesson: shortcuts only kill time, not save it. Anyways, that's that, and hopefully everyone will pull through without any loss. My coral is all open this morning and I did a water change in the DT and levels are good, so I think that although it was a pain, and made a mess, there wasn't any lasting damage done by pulling all the rock. Thanks again, sepulatian, for all the advice, it was a life saver (fish lives, that is...heh).

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by m0nk
Just an update. The hippo was almost covered with ich when I got her and the clowns into the 12. I started dropping the salinity Sunday night and finished Tuesday night. As of today she's looking great, I don't see a single spot. I won't start the 3 week countdown to raise it back up until I've been able to watch her consistently for the next day or two just to be sure, since I know there was still at least one or two spots yesterday, but these 3 fish are doing great.
As for the other two, it took me nearly all week to figure out a way to get them out. I tried a few things and nothing worked, so finally yesterday I put all my rock into buckets with tank water

and finally got them out and acclimated to the 10. I haven't started hypo there since the process to extract them was pretty stressful (to me and to them) so I'll probably start that tomorrow or Monday. 6 week countdown starts today.

It sure was tough getting to them, and I've learned a valuable lesson: shortcuts only kill time, not save it. Anyways, that's that, and hopefully everyone will pull through without any loss. My coral is all open this morning and I did a water change in the DT and levels are good, so I think that although it was a pain, and made a mess, there wasn't any lasting damage done by pulling all the rock. Thanks again, sepulatian, for all the advice, it was a life saver (fish lives, that is...heh).
Please keep us posted on the progress and ask any questions that you may have along the way

 

[m0nk]

Well, I guess this is day 6 on the 12 gallon and I've been seeing spots re-emerging over the past 2 days on the hippo. I've double and triple checked the SG/salinity daily and it's been steady at 1.009 SG / 12-13 ppt Salinity. Why would ich survive and return? My pH has been ok, I've been buffering as needed, and the tank has gotten a couple water changes already. Any thoughts would be great. Thanks.

 

[m0nk]

Bump....Anyone know why I'd see ich spots again after 6 days in hypo? Thanks!

 

[m0nk]

Nm, I found that the calibration of my refractometer was a bit off...must have happened while I was dropping the SG. It's apparently at 1.010 so I've re-calibrated and will be adjusting.
Question now, is it going to cause too much stress to basically start over on day 6 of hypo? Will just dropping it back down to 1.009 be enough?

 

[earlybird]

Not sure. I don't know the purpose of the 48 hour drop. It's either to prevent stress or reduce it at least OR to knock the ich off. It's possible that ich has acclimated to 1.010 and the reduction to 1.009 may not be sufficient if the ich has adjusted. Keep this up or seek out Beth or sepulatan.