Sand under rocks?

[leopard_babe]

Taking a poll. I don't really trust LFS, however this kind of sounded smart. Do you have sand under your aqua scaping???
I do, the LFS said you shouldn't do that, because all kinds of stuff can grow under the rocks. It sounds like it makes sence??? But do any of you have sand under your aquascaping, or do you move the sand out from underneath the liverock??

 

[dburr]

In my 100 gallon I made aggrocrete columes that I used to support the LR off the sand.
When I moved it all to the 90 gallon, I didn't bother doing it. Didn't really make sense to. Unless you have digging fish or shrimp that dig under the rock. That would squish them and topple the rock maybe breaking the glass.

 

[nm reef]

I think sand under LR can contribute to problems....would seem to me it allows accumulation of nutrients and restricts circulation. But even more critical in my opinion it prohibits the LR from playing its part in the filtration process...over time a lot of LR surface area will sink under the sand...when I set up my new display I decided to place the LR on a PVC structure to keep it level with the top of the sand and prevent it from sinking under the sand. My thinking was why have 1/4 to 1/3 of my 150+ lbs of LR under the sand...with the PVC structure its all right at the top of the sand or above sand level and there is little to no chance of it sinking.

 

[dburr]

place the LR on a PVC structure to keep it level with the top of the sand and prevent it from sinking under the sand.
I have heard this. Unfortunatly after I setup my tank.

This is a great idea and can be done easily and without glueing the struckture. Just a bunch of tee's, elbows and pipe.

 

[lionfish28]

:scared: :scared: I never knew that if i place a LR on my LS it will harm my tank!...........That does not make sense at all:notsure:

 

[jblabs]

My base rock goes down to the bottom of the tank, but not for the reasons your LFS said. It just gave me a solid, non-settling base for the rest of the rock, some of which rests on the top of the sand.
(200 pounds LR)
The bristles and other organisms that take care of the DSB don't care if there is rock above them. I wouldn't worry about what is growing under there, just remember that sand "disolves" away and your rocks will shift as it does.

 

[bigsteve]

I always thought that having the rocks on top of the sand caused "dead spots" that could cause bad things to build up and possibly be released into the system causing a crash.
Incorrect?:notsure:

 

[fishman830]

nope i don't put rocks ontop of sand, sand is in front so i can see it nad i have a a very little

 

[leopard_babe]

Now that I have heard that it makes so much more sence. Probably half my sand is under my rock work. That is part of what the LFS said (not always reliable, but made sence to me today). I thought hmm... I should move my sand out from under my rocks. I am definately doing that in the one corner of my tank. The other, the rock work is way to complex.
thanks guys,
Leopard

 

[po bear]

In my tank I'm having trouble with the sand landing on my live rock, is this harmful to the rock? Also any ideas on how to get the sand to stop blowing around the tank, the filter blower is causeing this, can I slow the flow in anyway? :help:
Po Bear

 

[jblabs]

Originally posted by BigSteve
I always thought that having the rocks on top of the sand caused "dead spots" that could cause bad things to build up and possibly be released into the system causing a crash.
Incorrect?:notsure:
My understanding is that that is thought to be correct with CC beds where you have to siphon off accumulated crud. You don't siphon a DSB and the organisms that airate and take care of the DSB don't stop when they come to an area that is under a rock, they go right under and do the same job as where there are no rocks. Shifting rockwork would be the only concern.

 

[kistheeze]

rocks on sand here. No reason not to. As long as your sand has plenty of life all the "bad stuff" growing under there will be moved around anyway.

 

[fishman830]

ugh where's steveweast!?

 

[scubasteve]

I guess my question is, if the rock is on the sand, how is the "crud" getting under there? I don't think the point is that stuff is accumulating under the rock, because bacteria and sand sifting critters can still access these areas, and any stuff falling out of the water column obviously can't settle there (it's blocked by the rock). The point is you're minimizing the filtering capability of the sandbed by covering a large portion of the surface area with rock. That is why they say you should mound your rock in a way that minimizes the number of contact points with the sandbed. Whether you do this artificially with pipes or some other method, or take the time to aquascape the rock so that there is space for water flow under your rock doesn't really matter. The key for natural filtration is surface area (this applies to LR and your sandbed), and you can see this theory replicated in things like bio balls. I have all my rock on my sandbed, but placed in a way that it actually touches the sandbed in minamal fashion that still allows for a stable structure.

[hr]
Please respect the natural environment that makes this hobby possible. Be responsible and be informed. Support aquacultured/tank raised species.

 

[leopard_babe]

Thank you scuab steve, that was informative. I noticed that you live in Mi. Where do you get your corals from??
Thhanks,
Leopard

 

[scubasteve]

Cool, I didn't pay attn to the fact that you're from MI too. Right now i live in the Livonia area, but back in the day when i got sucked into this hobby, i was frequenting a LFS in Roseville on Gratiot south of 696 if you're familiar with the area (don't want to put the name on the post). I got about 95% of my stuff from there, including rock. I like the people and it's one of the best stocked lfs i've found. I've promised myself that I'm only going with tank breed/aquacultured corals and fish for my new setup. After researching the methods used to collect many of these animals and corals, and the death rate from transport, i don't feel right about contributing to the degredation of the environment or local populations of animals from the regions where they are taken. Luckily, more and more people are propogating corals, and there is a great selection of captive breed fish and coral. It might cost a little more, but I'm willing to pay the cost to help protect the environment. I'm a diver too, and I've even considered giving up the hobby when i'm down there and see the kind of damage people do to the reefs, but i don't think the we have to give up the hobby as along as we're responsible about it. If you're in the area and would like some pulsing xenia i'd be happy to give you some. Mine reproduces like crazy. Once the 300 gallon is setup i plan on trying to propogate a lot more corals. Maybe we could start trading some. Oh, we just sold the house, so we'll be moving to Washington Twnshp next month (26/Van Dyke), if you're in this area.

 

[leopard_babe]

I live in downriver MI, on Grosse Ile. That is like 35 Minutes Southeast of detroit. I know where you are speaking of. I have family that lives in washington. I would love to trade, as soon as my corals start to spread.
Thanks Scubasteve!!!!!!!!!
Leopard

 

[stuckinfla]

After hearing a "clicking" noise coming from my 5gal kitchen tank, I proceded to watch a shrimp(s) (what i think is/are pistol....cant tell if its only one) burrow a very intricate labyrinth under ALL of my rock. So yes, i can see the rock tumbling down from lack of support. In my 55, I think I shall do some "aquascaping"!

 

[harrysreef]

My rock is supported by the sand not really on top. Like it has been mentioned you just try not to cover to much arae of the sand. It helps stabilize the rock. IMO

 

[scubasteve]

I guess this is related to the initial post, as well as the posts on LR stability. There are epoxies out there that can be used underwater (they even cure underwater) that you can use to glue your rocks together. This is beneficial for many reasons: animals not constantly toppling formations, you can shape caves, ledges, and even "legs" so that the majority of rock is off the sand, and if you have sick fish or pests you need to catch, it is a lot easier to move several larger masses of rocks than move a bunch of individual rocks. Some of the epoxies start out red (close match to the color of coraline algae), and the coraline algae from the rock will cover it in time and blend right in. I'm sure many of you already knew about this stuff, just thought i'd throw it out there.
Leopard_babe, hope to hear from you in the future. I'll keep my eye out for other people from MI. Maybe we can get a little trading ring going and get some cool stuff! I have some really nice ricordea that i want to try and propogate in the future too, as well as a nice orange tree (scleronephthya if you want to look it up). I'll use the refugium in my new setup as a grow out tank for coral frags. Hopefully I'll have as much sucess with my other coral as I've had with my xenia.

[hr]
Please respect the natural environment that makes this hobby possible. Be responsible and be informed. Support aquacultured/tank raised species.