Save the BIG 3 or let them fail?

miaheatlvr

miaheatlvr

Active Member
I say let them fail and go through chapter 11 bankruptcy like the airlines, that will make the companies go through heavy restructuring with stringent oversight, Which then they can, dissolve the union contracts, make fewer cars, less models.. get rid of models that don't sell and concentrate on high quality high bred vehicles. It costs the big 3 like $1100 a vehicle for health insurance and for the same insurance it cost Toyota $110. They 25 billion they are asking for is a life preserver and not a cure and they will burn through it and ask for more by april or may 09. What do you think?
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
Let them fail!
I just read this morning that in order to get to the meeting where the big 3 were begging congress for a bailout, all 3 CEOs got there in their own, company owned, private jets. Talk about hypocrisy!
 
m0nk

m0nk

Active Member
Let them fail. They obviously have lost sight of what consumers want, and they've lost the edge in technological advancement, so why should we bail them out? Business is all about competition, and these guys failed at it, but other car manufacturers will rise out of the ashes as a new breed of competition for the other auto makers that are still out there.... and any new ones that come out will have to be innovative, breeding better cars out of all the other auto makers too. It's the very foundation of competitive business.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
It's so mixed for me. It's so sad to see such great pieces of Historic Americana going through this mess. I will agree that perhaps Chapter 11 is the only way to get rid of these union costs.
 
T

tizzo

Guest
My father in law recently retired after 41 years at a GM plant and is now living off his pension... Same as my uncle, only he retired about 10 years ago. And so many others. They are the only reason I'm on the fence with this issue.
Good cars, good people, bad management.
I wish there was a way to eliminate one without effecting the lives of so many others.
 
miaheatlvr

miaheatlvr

Active Member
I dont care what anybody says, I <3 FORDS. I love my FORD EXPEDITION! and I am dying for a HYBRED EXPEDITION which I will happily purchase.. similar to the hybred suburban? and escalade and put my $ back into the economy. p.s. Part of owning a large vehicle is for business.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2844929
My father in law recently retired after 41 years at a GM plant and is now living off his pension... Same as my uncle, only he retired about 10 years ago. And so many others. They are the only reason I'm on the fence with this issue.
Good cars, good people, bad management.
I wish there was a way to eliminate one without effecting the lives of so many others.
I agree Tizzo,its time for Unions to and Management to get real busy and work things out that are fair and beneficial to all
 
pontius

pontius

Active Member
they've been sitting on patents for gas-less cars for 3 decades because it would cost them too much profit margin to convert their equipment and technologies, with little regard for the consumer who pays ever rising energy costs. now, consumers no longer want to pay $40,000+ for a car that gets 12 mpg when gas is $3-$4 per gallon.
so yeah, let them fail.
 
jdl

jdl

Member
The gas companies should bail them out if anyone, not the american public.
Hopefully they all 3 fail, and someone starts up a new American car company from the dust and eliminates the UAW.
 
kjr_trig

kjr_trig

Active Member
Let them fail...I just bought a new car last week and I truely wanted to go American. I test drove a bunch, but the only American car I really loved was the Pontiac G-8 GT, loved the Infiniti G-35 but didn't like the dealership, so it came down to the Pontiac or the 3 Series Bimmer. I had horrible issues with my 2000 Pontiac Grand Am GT once it got past the 36,000 mile warranty, that stuck in my head and I spent about $7500 more and got the BMW....The big 3 are getting better, but the need to improve management drastically and still need to make better cars.
 
cowfishrule

cowfishrule

Active Member
to me, i see this as nothing more than the workers union raping the companies.
dont get me wrong... im all for hard workers being compensated, safe work areas, etc. but i have a problem with union management taking way too much of a cut, which i feel that has been happening over the years.
to me, the only change is revolution.
if the big 3 fail, then they absolutely must conform to what the american public want. feeding them morsels will only prolong it.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2844999
Let them fail...I just bought a new car last week and I truely wanted to go American. I test drove a bunch, but the only American car I really loved was the Pontiac G-8 GT, loved the Infiniti G-35 but didn't like the dealership, so it came down to the Pontiac or the 3 Series Bimmer. I had horrible issues with my 2000 Pontiac Grand Am GT once it got past the 36,000 mile warranty, that stuck in my head and I spent about $7500 more and got the BMW....The big 3 are getting better, but the need to improve management drastically and still need to make better cars.
Please, at least for me, tell me you looked at the new CTS??
Originally Posted by COWFISHRULE
http:///forum/post/2845003
dont get me wrong... im all for hard workers being compensated, safe work areas, etc. but i have a problem with union management taking way too much of a cut, which i feel that has been happening over the years.
That's a big part of it. Some of the current senior line workers for GM get upwards of $29/hr, and sometimes much more. That's $60k on an assembly line, and a great benefits package also. Granted they've put considerable time in, but seriously $60k to move a piece of sheet in and out a press, or $65k to bolt on a fender?
 
kjr_trig

kjr_trig

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2845010
Please, at least for me, tell me you looked at the new CTS??
I did "Caddy Guy", just doesn't measure up to the 3 series "feel" wise for me....I would have trouble putting it into words, all I can say is it doesn't "feel" as nice as the Bimmer or the Infiniti from a driving standpoint. It felt closer to my wife's 300C than it did to the 3, in other words, it comes closer to a luxary car than I would like.....They did a good job on the CTS, still have a way to go to catch BMW though, their is a reason that the BMW 3 has been one of Car & Drivers top 10 for like 20 years in a row.
The G-8 feels more like a "muscle car" which was nice.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2845056
I did "Caddy Guy", just doesn't measure up to the 3 series "feel" wise for me....I would have trouble putting it into words, all I can say is it doesn't "feel" as nice as the Bimmer or the Infiniti from a driving standpoint. It felt closer to my wife's 300C than it did to the 3, in other words, it comes closer to a luxary car than I would like.....They did a good job on the CTS, still have a way to go to catch BMW though, their is a reason that the BMW 3 has been one of Car & Drivers top 10 for like 20 years in a row.
The G-8 feels more like a "muscle car" which was nice.
Very interesting. The driving experience is usually one of the CTS's trump cards. They spent lots of time tuning the car. It was a 2008/9 CTS with DI, and not a older 07 or beater model, right?? The CTS is a bit bigger then the 3-series, sort of slotting to the equative, if BMW made a 4-series, bit smaller then the 5-series, so you perspective sounds right. Though if you want sport, there's always the CTS-V which attempts to slow the rotation of the earth down (or speed it up, depending on which direction the car is pointed
)
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Squidward
http:///forum/post/2845193
Typical let's blame it all on the unions. Typical republican responses.

hmmm somewhat equal products, same processes, they diverge with labor costs and bad management.
But then I wouldn't expect someone blinded by partisanship to reach such conclusions until you were told what to think by Nancy.
 
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