Seahorse Tank-Newbie Hobbyist

[robdog696]

I'm sure a lot of you are laughing... from what I have read seahorse tanks are among the most difficult to maintain. However, I am ready to give it a go if the feedback I recieve here is not too harsh.
:happyfish First, I have done a ton of research and know the basics. I know all the equipment I will need for a "reef" or "fish only" tank. I am, however, having difficulty finding info on seahorse tanks. So I have a few questions:
:thinking: Do I need powerheads in a seahorse tank, considering they need a "low water motion tank"?
:thinking: Do I need a protien Skimmer to begin with, or is this an item I can afford to wait to buy?
:thinking: How much live rock should I buy if the fish I eventually desire are a mated pair of seahorses, dragonface pipefish, some green mandarin dragonets, and a dragon sea moth?
:thinking: If I attempt mated pairs of the above mentioned fish, will any other of the above mentioned fish eat their offspring?
:thinking: A 50 gallon tank is reccomended for the dragon sea moth. Will a 46 gallon bowfront tank be sufficient?
:thinking: The dragonface pipefish is said to feed on "red bugs" found in acropora coral. Does this mean that I should put this coral in the tank for them? If so, should I add the coral before adding any fish?
:notsure: I think that's about all the info I need to get started, although any help at all would be GREATLY appreciated! I'm simply trying to do as much research as possible and figure out exactly what I want in the tank before I get started. As well, I am trying to figure out how to minimize the start-up costs of this expensive hobby. Thank you so much in advance for any and all helpful replies!

 

[alyssia]

You will still need a PH (powerhead) in your tank for circulation. I have one PH in my 20 gallon seahorse tank.
Seahorses have a very heavy bioload so I would definitely get a skimmer ASAP.
You should have 1 to 1 1/2 lbs of LR per gallon, unless you have mandarins they need 100+ lbs of LR for to sustain ONE mandarin.
I don't have pipefish so I can't help ya with that one.
I suppose you already know, but CB (captive bred) seahorses are much hardier than WC (wild caught). My horses were already trained on frozen mysis when I got them so I don't have to mess with live foods.
Kudos to you for doing your research first!! :cheer:

 

[robdog696]

LOL The dragon sea moth is said to need "little to no rockwork". Yet it says that their ideal tankmates include dragonets. Now I am very confused. If ONE dragonet requires 100 lbs of liverock, and a dragon sea moth requires little to none, how the heck are these two compatible? Thanks so much for the response. Your post was very helpful!

 

[alyssia]

They are still compatiable, in terms of getting along.

 

[torno]

First off, I recommend you visit seahorse.org. Next, you do NOT need a skimmer. I hvae had a 30 gallon tank up and running for over a year with no skimmer and am doing just fine. MY filtration consists of a Whisper HOB 30 filter, 33ish pounds of liverock, and a Mxi Jet 400 powerhead. There is actually an argument AGAINST using skimmers in a SH tank. You don't neccessarily need 100+ pounds of liverock to sustain a mandarin. If you are able to find one that is eating frozen, not that rare actually, then it should do fine on a diet of frozen mysis and such. Your 46 gallon tank should be fine for a dragon sea moth.
Hope that helped!

 

[teen]

what is the argument against using the protein skimmer?
dont rely on feeding your mandarin on forzen foods alone. if you dont want the 100 lbs of live rock in your tank, id suggest a well established refugium so that you can raise pods and then transport them into the main tank.

 

[robdog696]

Wow, thanks for that website Torno!!! I have found a great deal of helpful info! Some of the articles there are even more helpful than what I have found on more established sites. You guys are all AWESOME for offering so much helpful advice!
:thinking: I still have two questions that haven't been answered, but may find answers yet on seahorse.org. Will the pipefish or dragon moth eat seahorse babies? And do I need coral for the pipefish to feed off of?

After reading info on cycling the tank I have learned that it is actually possible to cycle the tank and maintain the necessary bacteria without liverock. I would like to minimize the amount of liverock in my tank for 2 reasons. First, I would like to give the dragon sea moth as much room on the bottom of the tank as possible. And second, I'd like to avoid the cost of live rock. So, have any of you tried the ammonia method of cycling a tank, would you reccomend it, and would you reccomend NOT having any liverock in a seahorse tank. This is all, of course, assuming I choose NOT to have the mandarin in my tank.

 

[teresaq]

As you read and research, most people sho keep seahorses dont recomend mixing horses and pipe fish, only because pipe are ussually wc-wild cought, and carry pathigens that can hurt the horses.
I am doing a 37 seahorse tank with 1 pair of cb erectis.
Good Luck

 

[bovetek]

I know I'm gonna get flammed for this but here goes. I used to have a 90 gal with 125 lbs of LR. I had several fish and a mandarine . About 6 months ago my over zealous and very large dog accidently ran into the tank breaking out one side. Luckily I was home and had an empty 37. after aquick setup and putting everybody that survived in the 20L sump. Some of the LR had corals on them that I fugured would just die from lack of water so I scrubbed them off and let it dry out. I still have the 37 going with about 45 lbs of LR. I had been hatching BBS (baby brine shrimp) for some of my corals and my mandarin went crazy over them. So now I feed bbs 3 days a week and I think he needs to go on a diet. As for your Sea Horses, BBS newly hatched and gutloaded would be a fine suppliment.
just my opinion.

 

[joojoo]

another reason saltwater tanks need lots of liverock is that the amount of natural filtration just one piece of LR supplies is very hard to duplicate

 

[robdog696]

I am mentally exhausted, but can't remember the last time I was this excited about anything!!! LMAO! I have discovered exactly what you just decribed. I no longer wish to incorporate pipefish with my seahorses, due to the normal problems with mixing CB and WC fish. Now I am down to wanting to breed seahorses and keep the dragon sea moth just because I think they're so cool. I have been reading up on how to make a refugium to add filtration to the system, and also to act as either an infirmary or nursery. I am super excited about this idea. However, I have just one delima. The tank I wish to purchase is already very tall, and a refugium should be placed above it. How would I accomplish this without it looking like junk??? I'm baffled. So, any advice or pictures on adding refugiums to a store bought tank/stand/hood combo would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise I am down to just two questions. Will the dragon sea moth eat the fry and (especially with a refugium) how much if any LR will I need? Thanks again, guys!!! I'm not worthy!

 

[joojoo]

fuge's dont have to go above the tank
instead of using gravity as the fuge's output, you will just need another pump

 

[robdog696]

What if one of the pumps lost power? wouldn't it cause 1 tank to overflow?

 

[joojoo]

use an overflow in your main tank and a pump in the fuge
if the fuge pump stops, water wont flow into the overflow

 

[alyssia]

They also make HOB fuges, but I'm not sure if they are big enough for what you need.
That website is excellent. I was afraid to post it because we aren't allowed to post links to other sites on here.

Teresa, great catch on the pipefish/seahorse mixing! I totally forgot about that.

 

[torno]

Some people don't use protein skimmers because they tend to release a lot of small microbubbles. Microbubbles can get into the seahorses pouches, etc., and Gas Bubble Disease (GBD) can occur. The fish then has to be moved to a hospital tank, and if the bubbles cannot be released, Diamox will need to be used. I've never used a skimmer, and found that with weekly water changes, and a smart stocking plan, you don't really need one for a 30-50 gallon aquarium.
Bovetek, sure the horses will accept the brine shrimp, that doesn't mean it's good for them! The nutrition in baby brine shrimp is only enough to sustain one species of seahorse, h. zosterae (the dwarf seahorse). If you buy from a breeder who sells captive bred horses, then you should be able to feed them frozen mysis shrimp, like Hikari or Piscine Energetics brands. Not only is this a fine diet for them, it's very easy to feed! Just pop a cube out of the freezer, thaw it out, and put it in the tank. Some hobbyists train their horses to eat at a feeding station, so the shrimp can be placed in one spot and not blown all over the tank. The horses then go to that spot, station, each time they're fed. I use a large over turned sea shell as my feeding station.
You shouldn't "rely on your mandarine eating frozen", but if you see it eat at the store, then you therefore know it is capable of doing so, and such large quantities of liverock aren't such a neccessity.
Hope that helped!

 

[robdog696]

Do any of you know of breeders that sell mated pairs of seahorses? And after doing a bit more research I have found that peppermint shrimp will eat fry. It was reccomended in the first refugium article I read to use the refugium both as a nursery and a "cleaner" tank. The author had peppermint shrimp in their refugium. Could this be why the breeder was having a very low survival rate? Would you reccomend two refugiums in series, allowing for a cleaner tank and a nursery? I'm loving all this saltwater research! This hobby is so fun, and I don't even have a tank yet. It requires patience, research, and creativity. I don't think I was even this challenged by a task in high school. LOL!

 

[robdog696]

Oh and, btw... I can't say thanks enough for all the help... especially JooJoo Torno and Alyssia! One more question about the refugium advice, JooJoo... I read that seahorses fry can easily get sucked into an overflow... obviously the idea of having the overflow in the main tank is much less risky than in the refugium if it will be used as a nursery. However, is there much concern that the fry would be sucked into the overflow before I realize that a seahorse has had his babies?

 

[alyssia]

Originally Posted by Robdog696
Do any of you know of breeders that sell mated pairs of seahorses? And after doing a bit more research I have found that peppermint shrimp will eat fry. It was reccomended in the first refugium article I read to use the refugium both as a nursery and a "cleaner" tank. The author had peppermint shrimp in their refugium. Could this be why the breeder was having a very low survival rate? Would you reccomend two refugiums in series, allowing for a cleaner tank and a nursery? I'm loving all this saltwater research! This hobby is so fun, and I don't even have a tank yet. It requires patience, research, and creativity. I don't think I was even this challenged by a task in high school. LOL!

You can find some very reputable breeders on that site that has been mentioned in this thread.

 

[teresaq]

Raising fry is a big undertaking. I would do a lot of research. each kind of horse requires a diff setup and require differant food. Erectis are the easiest, the fry eat bbs from the start. you need a seperate tank and system to raise fry and feed them correctly. Do some research of the seahorse site. there are a lot of people who have a lot of knowlege in that department