Seahorses' Light Tolerance

[veronicad]

I'm totally interested in your findings, short and long term. I'm thinking of setting up a tank, you may know, for dsh only. So far, I'm leaning towards a 6gal, if only for ease of feeding issues mentioned. So I'd like to know what differences you note between keeping dsh in the 5.5 vs the 29.
By the way, I love how members of this site don't seem to get sidetracked from the aquarium issues by mundane personal issues.
Looking forward to further posts on this fascinating subject!

 

[monalisa]

In my 37gal I know that what I'm using for lighting is working, and I have happy, healthy horses and soft corals...coralife pcs, nothing fancy. IDK... experimenting at the possible expense of your ponies/horses. Have at it.
Lisa

 

[bronco300]

Originally Posted by MonaLisa
In my 37gal I know that what I'm using for lighting is working, and I have happy, healthy horses and soft corals...coralife pcs, nothing fancy. IDK... experimenting at the possible expense of your ponies/horses. Have at it.
Lisa

true...but i don't think she is putting them endanger unless she really starts to cut back on feeding more than what is needed normally considering it being such a large tank
I wonder, rykna...how is algae in the 29gallon?

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by MonaLisa
In my 37gal I know that what I'm using for lighting is working, and I have happy, healthy horses and soft corals...coralife pcs, nothing fancy. IDK... experimenting at the cost of your ponies/horses. Have at it.
Lisa
Of course, never at the cost of any animal. The different things that I try in my tanks, I try my ideas only if I am confident that the out come will benefit the fish, or, for instance my thanksgiving trip, be a choice between life and death.
Many things that I have tried have not be successful. Such as this Light Tolerance experience. I had no idea how light sensitive seahorses were. But now, after two nights of "spot light" feeding, through various sources, including our forum, I have learned that seahorses are very light sensitive. Which makes perfect sense to me now, in the wild the dwarfs live in murky waters. Not to mention what happens to our eye sight when we watch too much TV. So I have stopped using the spot lights.
One of the books I received for Christmas discussed breeding dwarf seahorses and gives guide lines to insure that your breeding stock is healthy and happy. Part of that section discussed the size of your tank and feeding differences between ponies and horses. One subject that stood out was that ponies are much more stationary then their larger cousins. In the wild they live in dense forests of marine plants that are smothered with tasty pods. So partially for safety and abundance of food ponies have no need to swim very far if at all in a day. Seahorses, on the other hand, having a larger snouts that allow a larger menu to choose from. So their home territory is much larger and they cover a lot more ground in a day.
So, as Luke was trying to pound into my head from day one

, that is why ponies should not be kept in anything larger than a 10 gallon tank. By taking pictures and recording the results of moving the ponies to the 5.5 gallon I will have tangible evidence, that smaller tanks are indeed much more beneficial for the health and longevity of ponies.
And that is why I love the input and experiences from everyone here~Knowledge

 

[zeke92]

good, then that means moving my dwarf from the 10 gal to my new and improved 2.5 gal will be even more beneficial. i also like how this forums (adding to the 'i like' list) threads usually end up helping more then just the person that started it.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by Bronco300
true...but i don't think she is putting them endanger unless she really starts to cut back on feeding more than what is needed normally considering it being such a large tank
I wonder, rykna...how is algae in the 29gallon?
Doing great!!! I just added a huge clump of chaeto, and the capulera is adding new sprouts almost daily. I also added a whole bunch of tigger pods, rotifers, and cocepods. The babies love to hang out there. I did triple the amount of atermia that I hatch. So when I add dinner to the 29 it looks like a white out in a blizzard here in Minnesota!!!
The other neat thing I noticed is that the small patches of algae that grow on the artificial plants attracts bbs and many of the other pods that make them easy pickings for the ponies.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by Bronco300
i mean what will be the results? short term 1 week studies will be nice but overall won't do much since it doesn't mean as much for success since here in the saltwater world success means years, not months even....ya know what i mean? but it sure is a good start , just wondered what the end purpose/conclusion would be from that study
Well, what got me thinking was the chapter about breeding. Anyone knows that when breeding animals, you need to have them in tip top shape to produce the healthiest offspring. The book had some very nice photos showing the difference between a physically healthy pony and one that was only of average physical health. I think my ponies are very healthy, but I want to know if I can improve their health more. So since I have pictures of them in the 29, I thought that they would be good to use for comparison. If I do not see and visual change in the ponies, I will confirm my original belief that the ponies health is not decreased by the size of the tank. However, I still do not recommend keeping ponies in anything larger than a 45...and that's really pushing the limit. The 29 is really the top of my comfort zone.

 

[bronco300]

but can you really confirm after testing only a week in each?

 

[zeke92]

hey rykna, you should scan the pics of a average healthy and physically healthy pony onto this thread so people can see the difference. i'm sure everyone would like to see what a very healthy pony looks like compared to an average health.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by Bronco300
but can you really confirm after testing only a week in each?
Well, I've worked in a vet clinic, and having seen what a balanced diet can do for a undernourished or starving, neglected dog in two weeks, I think if there is going to be any significant difference in physical apperance,I'd think you'd see it within the first week due to the animal's size and state of health.
I would definitely like to take zeke's idea and post the pictures from the book, and post my pony pictures along with them.

 

[bronco300]

but health would need to be watched over a long term basis...you may be able to see some preliminaries short term like that but overall in a big tank something could develop a little later where in a 5.5 it wouldnt be a worry..me personally i'd find it hard to believe that dwarves will be ok in a 29 even after you do a weeks watching over them....if you get them in there and they last a year without deaths then i would maybe change my mind...but a week just isn't enough for to confirm an actually theory like that, especially with some many variables and the necessity to have a very sterile tank and correct feeding to reach even the smallest of babies.
what would feeding ratios going to be? are you going to do a 1/2 teaspoon of bbs every feeding in the 5.5...and then match that for the 29..doing what..2.6363 tsp? or record how much you have to bump it up to make sure they do stay healthy....
or, will you take the 29 gallon and mimic its home in the wild...having plant life everywhere, boost your pods for a while like mad....having not the prettiest tank but making it suitable for them like they would, or close to what they would in the wild.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by Bronco300
but health would need to be watched over a long term basis...you may be able to see some preliminaries short term like that but overall in a big tank something could develop a little later where in a 5.5 it wouldnt be a worry..me personally i'd find it hard to believe that dwarves will be ok in a 29 even after you do a weeks watching over them....if you get them in there and they last a year without deaths then i would maybe change my mind...but a week just isn't enough for to confirm an actually theory like that, especially with some many variables and the necessity to have a very sterile tank and correct feeding to reach even the smallest of babies.
what would feeding ratios going to be? are you going to do a 1/2 teaspoon of bbs every feeding in the 5.5...and then match that for the 29..doing what..2.6363 tsp? or record how much you have to bump it up to make sure they do stay healthy....
or, will you take the 29 gallon and mimic its home in the wild...having plant life everywhere, boost your pods for a while like mad....having not the prettiest tank but making it suitable for them like they would, or close to what they would in the wild.
Hmmm... let me back up.
I have pictures of the ponies over the past month in the 29. Since I have decided to breed the ponies, I wanted to seperate the ones I want to keep in my DT, and those that will be added to the breeding stock. After reading the chapter discussing breeding and health issues, mulling over your concerns that anything larger than a 10 gallon is to big, I decided to find that out.
Lisa has commented many times to me, that posting information about keeping ponies in larger tanks successfully, can be very harmful to those who are just started with seahorses. And I agree with Lisa. We all want our fish to thrive, not just exist.
I really like your thoughts here, i hadn't thought much more past simply observing the ponies in the 5.5~
what would feeding ratios going to be? are you going to do a 1/2 teaspoon of bbs every feeding in the 5.5...and then match that for the 29..doing what..2.6363 tsp? or record how much you have to bump it up to make sure they do stay healthy....
or, will you take the 29 gallon and mimic its home in the wild...having plant life everywhere, boost your pods for a while like mad....having not the prettiest tank but making it suitable for them like they would, or close to what they would in the wild.
I guess with the 29 I've been going for the "wild habitat". I have always prefered to mimic the natural habitat in all of my aquariums. I've been increasing the chaeto and capulera quite a bit. After two weeks I have noticed that all of the ponies are growing new cirri. The babies prefer to hang out in the chaeto, but now many more of them venture out, due to the huge increase of hitching posts.
~Rykna

 

[bronco300]

i agree with lisa...which, by the way, where has she been? i havent seen much of her, or maybe im just blind....
but if a bigger tank can work with these guys than thats great because that will allow more people to get into them as well that hate the small tanks...however for us to finally say yes big tanks will work it would have to be long term experiments with alot of recordings as to feedings necessities,etc...maybe i'm wrong...but there is also a difference in saying they are just as healthy in a 29 gallon as a 5.5 gallon...and leave it at that could be misleading...because you may have to feed a much much higher qty of bbs in the 29...or you have to absolutely make sure you have tons of chaeto for pod production..kind of like requirements for mandarins needing tons of pods...you always have to make sure flow is large enough but have enough havens for the dwarves to go to if want low flow....so i guess if a 29 would end up working after long term success i imagine it would still need to be followed with the fact that it is easier to keep in small tanks, or need alot more feeding in a larger tank and giant pod population for safety etcetc avg hobbyist or new hobbyist may go in and say hey this can be in a 29 too...lets put them in...increase size but not increasing the number of seahorses....so we can feed the same...when i would highly doubt that would work as we discussed before...things like that.
that make sense?

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by Bronco300
i agree with lisa...which, by the way, where has she been? i havent seen much of her, or maybe im just blind....
but if a bigger tank can work with these guys than thats great because that will allow more people to get into them as well that hate the small tanks...however for us to finally say yes big tanks will work it would have to be long term experiments with alot of recordings as to feedings necessities,etc...maybe i'm wrong...but there is also a difference in saying they are just as healthy in a 29 gallon as a 5.5 gallon...and leave it at that could be misleading...because you may have to feed a much much higher qty of bbs in the 29...or you have to absolutely make sure you have tons of chaeto for pod production..kind of like requirements for mandarins needing tons of pods...you always have to make sure flow is large enough but have enough havens for the dwarves to go to if want low flow....so i guess if a 29 would end up working after long term success i imagine it would still need to be followed with the fact that it is easier to keep in small tanks, or need alot more feeding in a larger tank and giant pod population for safety etcetc avg hobbyist or new hobbyist may go in and say hey this can be in a 29 too...lets put them in...increase size but not increasing the number of seahorses....so we can feed the same...when i would highly doubt that would work as we discussed before...things like that.
that make sense?

100%. I think from now on your should be my thread editor!!!
As for Lisa, I don't know, I'm worried about her.

 

[bronco300]

Originally Posted by Rykna

100%. I think from now on your should be my thread editor!!!
As for Lisa, I don't know, I'm worried about her.

lol, how much does it pay?
have you tried callin her?

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by Bronco300
lol, how much does it pay?
have you tried callin her?
hmm....pay....well, how about 10% of the gratuities if the book gets printed

I did call her a while back...she seem very distracted...and not happy.

 

[bronco300]

i'll do 15%!
well hopefully everything is ok with her still

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by Bronco300
i'll do 15%!
well hopefully everything is ok with her still

15%

I do too...
say Lisa, I miss your input and tank pics, so if you happen to catch this post, love to hear from you

 

[rays862]

..because you may have to feed a much much higher qty of bbs in the 29
That is exactly my point, no matter what size tank, the animals are at our mercy as for feeding density. In the wild they are saturated with density, or they move on to more fruitful feeding grounds.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by Rays862
That is exactly my point, no matter what size tank, the animals are at our mercy as for feeding density. In the wild they are saturated with density, or they move on to more fruitful feeding grounds.
Bingo!!!! That's absolutely right. Since our cb fish cannot move on to better feeding grounds we would have to calculate how much each seahorse consumes in a day per in a cubic foot. So if you had a 55 gallon tank:
that's 48" x 12" x 20" =11,520 cubic inches
11,520/ 1,328 = 8.67 cubic feet
1,328 cubic inches= 1 cubic foot
A 55 gallon tank has 8.67 cubic feet of water
So how much shrimp does a seahorse snick when seahorse does snick shrimp? A seahorse snicks as much shrimp as a seahorse can snick when a seahorse does snick shrimp!
From what I've read, seahorses in the wild can consume over 1,000 pods in one feeding. A show on the Discovery Planet stated that mated pairs in the wild protect and area of 600 square feet or more.
So how does this compare in our tanks? Would one need to house at least 1,000 pods per square foot of the tank?
55 gallon= 8 square feet
8 square feet= 8,000 pods per square foot
~64,000 pods in a 55 gallon
Now, I know my 90 gallon reef pod population was so large, at times the rocks surface seemed liquid. But I certainly didn't take time to count them all.
So how much is enough?