Shootings at Fort Hood

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by 37g Joe
http:///forum/post/3168015
So many of you just do not get it. When I first became apart of this forum i was not in the .mil but after serving several years and requesting to go over to the sand box to protect YOUR freedoms it amazes me how so many of you just do not get it. I had to sacrifice so much one of them would be my love of salt water aquauriums. i had to dismantle all the work i did and since i joined I have not had a SW Aqurium. that is a litle sacrifice sompared to what most sacrifice. I love my country and searve it with pride and would hope that those who share the same passions as I would also come to the same conclusions as I that we as a nation have enemies who hate freedom and liberty and those enemies are EVIL.
Thanks Joe....I appreciate all you do for us

keep safe....

 

[37g joe]

After rereading my previous comment I realised it might appear that I have been over to the sandbox, I wanted to clarify that I have as yet to go and at this time am not slated even though I have requested. Also I wanted also to remark on that I know of many individuals who have requested to go over there even after serving several tours in the region. There are many Brave Men and Women who have volunteered to go over to these conflicts.
These individuals unlike Hasan have Children, Wives, or Husbands back home and still requested to serve in the current conflict. These Men and Women have experienced the cold truth of war, they have seen friends and associates killed and injured on the battlefield but still they find it in them selves to volunteer their own names to go back. I would not be suprised if some of the victims of Hasan were those very type of people, Soldiers that had volunteered to go even after serving previous tours over in Iraq and A-stan.
Remember those are the people he attacked, people who were brave and did their duty without trying to get out of it, even though they would be away from loved ones, miss birthdays, holidays and so much more.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3167691
Here is what he is talking about. Your placing the blame at the foot of Bush and the war is a backdoor justification/excuse for why this guy performed such heinous action. Comments such as this remove partial blame from the criminal always.
It is like saying, "had the car manufacturer not made the car to go so fast I never would have been driving that speed and killed that family of 6 in a minivan.".
For the record, I think you both are behaving like a couple of............ And that has to be pretty bad if it is coming from me....lol
I was being sarcastic with that remark. I was making a point that this isn't a time to be throwing politics into a sensitive situation like innocent people getting killed by some nut job simply because he took the chicken way out of getting deployed to Iraq.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3167726
Yeah, and if Bush was never elected 9-11 would have never happened

This guy was against both Iraq and Afghanistan. Didn't your Messiah say Afghanistan was a war we needed to fight?
What PO's me is there were plenty of warning signs but nothing was done. His family said the guy's worst nightmare was being deployed. He should have been dishonorably discharged but I guess it would have been considered profiling to boot a Muslim for making statements justifying terrorist acts.
The last reports I read was this guy went to his commander and stated he'd relinquish his commission, and also pay back all costs for his medical education if they would let him out to keep from being deployed to Iraq. Whether this is accurate of not, no one in the Army has confirmed. For whatever reasons this guy had for not wanting to be deployed, he made up his mind that he had no intentions of going over there. Interviews from his neighbors in his apartments have come out. The day of, or before the shootings, he went to all his neighbors and gave them whatever possessions he had. He gave one neighbor his frozen vegetables, another an air mattress, and told the apartment manager to keep his $400 deposit and give it to someone who could use it. He gave each of them a copy of the Kuran, then told them all he was thankful for their friendship. Every one of them just assumed he was being deployed. The guns he was carrying were not military issue. He purchased them at a local gun shop. They haven't released what type of weapons he purchased, but one report stated he had a .357 magnum, and some German model 9mm that held a 20-round clip.
He's sitting in a coma in the ICU at BAMC here in San Antonio. My wife knows one of the nurses that works in that unit. She said no one really wants to take care of the guy, but of course they have to. Security is very tight, and they monitor and check every inidividual that has access to the area.
My question is what is the protocol in the military for someone like this? He will apparently be sentence for the death and injuries to all the people. Does the military still believe in the death penalty (I'd prefer the firing squad), or will he just get terminal residence in the mental ward at Levenworth? I also imagine he'll get charged in civil courts for the murders of the civilians. Either way, the guy deserves to fry, if he comes out of this coma he's in.

 

[37g joe]

Fort Hood shooting: Texas army killer linked to September 11 terrorists

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...errorists.html

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3168181
The last reports I read was this guy went to his commander and stated he'd relinquish his commission, and also pay back all costs for his medical education if they would let him out to keep from being deployed to Iraq. Whether this is accurate of not, no one in the Army has confirmed. For whatever reasons this guy had for not wanting to be deployed, he made up his mind that he had no intentions of going over there. Interviews from his neighbors in his apartments have come out. The day of, or before the shootings, he went to all his neighbors and gave them whatever possessions he had. He gave one neighbor his frozen vegetables, another an air mattress, and told the apartment manager to keep his $400 deposit and give it to someone who could use it. He gave each of them a copy of the Kuran, then told them all he was thankful for their friendship. Every one of them just assumed he was being deployed. The guns he was carrying were not military issue. He purchased them at a local gun shop. They haven't released what type of weapons he purchased, but one report stated he had a .357 magnum, and some German model 9mm that held a 20-round clip.
He's sitting in a coma in the ICU at BAMC here in San Antonio. My wife knows one of the nurses that works in that unit. She said no one really wants to take care of the guy, but of course they have to. Security is very tight, and they monitor and check every inidividual that has access to the area.
My question is what is the protocol in the military for someone like this? He will apparently be sentence for the death and injuries to all the people. Does the military still believe in the death penalty (I'd prefer the firing squad), or will he just get terminal residence in the mental ward at Levenworth? I also imagine he'll get charged in civil courts for the murders of the civilians. Either way, the guy deserves to fry, if he comes out of this coma he's in.
I don't know man

Why would they even want someone like this in the military. I just see red when I hear these A-holes whining that they didn't sign up to fight in a war, HELLO? It's the friggin army.
If this guy really did offer to pay everything back I don't see why they wouldn't have let him go. I almost hope it isn't true. That would really mean the army is seriously screwed up. The interviews with his family members I heard didn't mention him offering to repay anything or even wanting out. He just didn't want to be deployed. He has had to reenlist at least once since the war started so I dunno what to think about that.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3168241
I don't know man

Why would they even want someone like this in the military. I just see red when I hear these A-holes whining that they didn't sign up to fight in a war, HELLO? It's the friggin army.
If this guy really did offer to pay everything back I don't see why they wouldn't have let him go. I almost hope it isn't true. That would really mean the army is seriously screwed up. The interviews with his family members I heard didn't mention him offering to repay anything or even wanting out. He just didn't want to be deployed. He has had to reenlist at least once since the war started so I dunno what to think about that.

Apparently they did not want him. The evil of political correctness rears its ugly head.

 

[37g joe]

It is interesting to take note on earlier comments in this thread now with all the stuff coming out about this guy. There were those in here who wanted to everyone to tread ligly and not bring up any political aspects or have any discussions they viewed as not PC.
It is evident now that very attitude is partially responsible for this incident. If the powers that be had not been afraid of being un-PC there is a good chance this would never of happened. There were so many warning signs but political correctness created those who should of known better to be impotent. But instead of learning from this we continue to be afraid to ask the difficult questions in fear of back lash.
I saw some one on another thread post this.
"just because he was muslim, tried to contact al queda, frequented militant islamic websites, spoke about jihad, and yelled alla akbar before the shooting began does not mean he is a terrorist."
This is the head in the sand attitude that will result in more of this occuring. But you can not say that or you will be called a fear monger.

 

[ironeagle2006]

For me anymore if the Radicals in the Islamic Faith want a War with the USA it is time to turn the US Armed Forces loose. Unrestricted Warfare on any countries shipping that sponsors their butts. Lets see how long the Cash flows when their Tankers are going up in Flames or ships are not getting thru with food. Also they have tried to attack us or get the means to attack us with WMD's well lets show them what a WMD attack looks like. However make it a city that would make the moderates and those that do not want war go is it WORTH IT.
Called take out one of these 2 targets either Medina or MECCA. Look what happened to the last nation that swore they would never give in we had destroyed their cities, navy the rest of their armed forces and it still took 2 atomic weapons to get their leaders to go WE QUIT. That country Japan they had never been defeated in war before in fact surrender for their troops was a fate worse than death. They were so dedicated to trying to defeat us they would crash planes into our ships. Heck their pilots would ram B-29's tro stop them also. Yet how the Politcal leaders have forgotten.

 

[37g joe]

Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3170505
For me anymore if the Radicals in the Islamic Faith want a War with the USA it is time to turn the US Armed Forces loose. Unrestricted Warfare on any countries shipping that sponsors their butts. Lets see how long the Cash flows when their Tankers are going up in Flames or ships are not getting thru with food. Also they have tried to attack us or get the means to attack us with WMD's well lets show them what a WMD attack looks like. However make it a city that would make the moderates and those that do not want war go is it WORTH IT.
Called take out one of these 2 targets either Medina or MECCA. Look what happened to the last nation that swore they would never give in we had destroyed their cities, navy the rest of their armed forces and it still took 2 atomic weapons to get their leaders to go WE QUIT. That country Japan they had never been defeated in war before in fact surrender for their troops was a fate worse than death. They were so dedicated to trying to defeat us they would crash planes into our ships. Heck their pilots would ram B-29's tro stop them also. Yet how the Politcal leaders have forgotten.
I hear what you’re saying that we need to be more offensive militarily but an attack on Mecca and possibly Medina would bring about “Total War”. If Mecca was laid to waste we would see a war unlike any we have ever heard of. Within days of an attack on Mecca you would see nations such as Pakistan using Nuclear weapons against targets such as Israel and our allies. Islamic nations that we are allies with would instantly declare war against us. After it was all said and done the death toll would likely be above a billion. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[reefraff]

+1 There are an awfully lot on non terrorist muslims that would rise up if we did something dumb like that. We should have bombed Bin Laden all the way to Pakistan leaving nothing but rubble in out wake. Pakistan's government wouldn't have been too heart broken if we cleared out that nest of terrorist on their side of the Afghanistan border.

 

[davebrace5533]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3170580
+1 There are an awfully lot on non terrorist muslims that would rise up if we did something dumb like that. We should have bombed Bin Laden all the way to Pakistan leaving nothing but rubble in out wake. Pakistan's government wouldn't have been too heart broken if we cleared out that nest of terrorist on their side of the Afghanistan border.
lets face it the "religion of peace" was founded by a man who on his death bed proclaimed "death to the christians and the jews." sounds like a real peacefull religion but then again its not a religion, it is a social/political world view, one in which it's perfectly ok to beat your wife to death because she pissed you off, to execute someone for proclaiming to be anything other than muslim, to force your women to hide behind veils because your men cant be trusted to not behave like animals. my favorite memory from the sand box is of the goat trucks riding around with the son up front and dear old mom in the bed with the animals lol.... but hey what do i know.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by davebrace5533
http:///forum/post/3170589
lets face it the "religion of peace" was founded by a man who on his death bed proclaimed "death to the christians and the jews." sounds like a real peacefull religion but then again its not a religion, it is a social/political world view, one in which it's perfectly ok to beat your wife to death because she pissed you off, to execute someone for proclaiming to be anything other than muslim, to force your women to hide behind veils because your men cant be trusted to not behave like animals. my favorite memory from the sand box is of the goat trucks riding around with the son up front and dear old mom in the bed with the animals lol.... but hey what do i know.
The holy war thing has been tried before, it doesn't work out so well. If they want to treat their women like that it isn't our business. I don't buy the whole peaceful religion thing either, too many of them are able to be recruited for there not to be something beyond the culture that makes them so willing to become terrorists, the religion is the common thread. That still doesn't mean we should start a holy war with them.

 

[ironeagle2006]

Why they already DID WITH US or have you Forgotten the Barracks attack in Beruit in 83 the USS Cole attack the 2 attacks on the WTC the multiple Hijackings the Bombing of Pan Am 103 I can go on and on.
See I would let them know that if they keep attacking us that all of their HOLY SHIRNES in ISLAM would become RUBBLE. Now even the most hard liner supporter is going to go if we keep supporting Terror groups we will have NOTHING LEFT to go to. Medina were their Prophet was born turned to GLASS same as MECCA with a threat of doing the same to their last of the trio the Mound on the Rock in Jeruslaum by letting the Irealis tear it down and build their new Temple there would really get their attention. Why they would have lost were Muhummond went to paridise and with that be in real trouble.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3170780
Why they already DID WITH US or have you Forgotten the Barracks attack in Beruit in 83 the USS Cole attack the 2 attacks on the WTC the multiple Hijackings the Bombing of Pan Am 103 I can go on and on.
See I would let them know that if they keep attacking us that all of their HOLY SHIRNES in ISLAM would become RUBBLE. Now even the most hard liner supporter is going to go if we keep supporting Terror groups we will have NOTHING LEFT to go to. Medina were their Prophet was born turned to GLASS same as MECCA with a threat of doing the same to their last of the trio the Mound on the Rock in Jeruslaum by letting the Irealis tear it down and build their new Temple there would really get their attention. Why they would have lost were Muhummond went to paridise and with that be in real trouble.
Do a google search on the number of Muslims world wide and their distribution. You really want to start a war with them? When a wacko bombs an abortion clinic do you respond by bombing the Vatican?

 

[ironeagle2006]

There is a Differance even the VATICAN condems the BOMBING OF ABORTION CLINCS> However when the WTC was hit by the planes on 9-11 the people were dancing in the Streets Correct. Hit them were it HURTS THE MOST THEIR RELIGOUS SHRINES AND SITES. Blow Mecca away then tell the Muslim world you Retaliate Medina GETS THE SAME TREATMENT. If your so stupid to attack again then we along with Isreal will wipe your MOUND OF THE ROCK OFF THE TEMPLE MOUND and HELP THE JEWISH FAITH REBUILD THEIR TEMPLE THERE. Also we are going to Blow the eastern Gate to Old Jerrulsuam open agin so people can enter there. Hit them so hard and fast that they are going WHAT HIT US and then KEEP HITTING THEM.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3170780
Why they already DID WITH US or have you Forgotten the Barracks attack in Beruit in 83 the USS Cole attack the 2 attacks on the WTC the multiple Hijackings the Bombing of Pan Am 103 I can go on and on.
See I would let them know that if they keep attacking us that all of their HOLY SHIRNES in ISLAM would become RUBBLE. Now even the most hard liner supporter is going to go if we keep supporting Terror groups we will have NOTHING LEFT to go to. Medina were their Prophet was born turned to GLASS same as MECCA with a threat of doing the same to their last of the trio the Mound on the Rock in Jeruslaum by letting the Irealis tear it down and build their new Temple there would really get their attention. Why they would have lost were Muhummond went to paridise and with that be in real trouble.
You still really believe the destruction of physical places and things can affect and change a mental belief system? 90% of Islam wants no war with the U.S. You destroy those places, They will want war with us. To take it further they can effectively shut down oil trade with us, thus crippling our economy and our military...since we NEED fuel.

 

[dragonzim]

Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3170866
There is a Differance even the VATICAN condems the BOMBING OF ABORTION CLINCS> However when the WTC was hit by the planes on 9-11 the people were dancing in the Streets Correct. Hit them were it HURTS THE MOST THEIR RELIGOUS SHRINES AND SITES. Blow Mecca away then tell the Muslim world you Retaliate Medina GETS THE SAME TREATMENT. If your so stupid to attack again then we along with Isreal will wipe your MOUND OF THE ROCK OFF THE TEMPLE MOUND and HELP THE JEWISH FAITH REBUILD THEIR TEMPLE THERE. Also we are going to Blow the eastern Gate to Old Jerrulsuam open agin so people can enter there. Hit them so hard and fast that they are going WHAT HIT US and then KEEP HITTING THEM.
You're truly an idiot if you think that destroying Mecca and all the muslim holy sites will accomplish anything other than pissing off EVERY muslim in the world (and there are more of them than christians) That would be the first step to WWIII

 

[ironeagle2006]

Go back thru History even back to Aicent Greece. When did Athens stop Fighting Sparta when they Threatened to Burn the Acroplis and the Parthanon to the GROUND after capturing the City. What forced Rome to Surrender more than one time when the Barbabarions threats to burn the Forum and other Roman Treasures and Temples to the Ground. When did the Jews stop fighting the Romans when the last of the old temples were destroyed.
Yes it is a HUGE risk however they declared the HOLY WAR FIRST NOT US. Either we fight to win or ADMIT DEFEAT LIKE FRENCH AND BEND OVER.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3170889
Go back thru History even back to Aicent Greece. When did Athens stop Fighting Sparta when they Threatened to Burn the Acroplis and the Parthanon to the GROUND after capturing the City. What forced Rome to Surrender more than one time when the Barbabarions threats to burn the Forum and other Roman Treasures and Temples to the Ground. When did the Jews stop fighting the Romans when the last of the old temples were destroyed.
Yes it is a HUGE risk however they declared the HOLY WAR FIRST NOT US. Either we fight to win or ADMIT DEFEAT LIKE FRENCH AND BEND OVER.
Athens lost the war with Sparta because the war went Maritime and the Spartans defeated the Athens Navy completely...This is what caused Athens to surrender, they had no more resources to wage war with.
The Roan Jewish war was actually 3 separate wars. The first one, Yes the Great Jewish Temple was destroyed during the seige of jerusalem...but the reason the Jewish people lost Jerusalem is because during the siege they burned their own food stores to force themselves (and the greeks in the city with them that they were also in a civil war with) to fight the Romans and not surrender. The Jews were completely wiped in the city as they did not surrender but fought on right down to the last child as it was better to die than live under roman captivity.
The destruction of the Great Temple did not prevent the two subsequent wars either, as the Jewish people rose up twice more years later. It wasn't until the end of the third war were many more temples destroyed. the majority of the Jewish population of Judea was either killed, exiled, or sold into slavery after the Bar-Kokhba Revolt, and Jewish religious and political authority was suppressed far more brutally.
There for it wasn't the destruction of places or things that prevented any further uprisings but the removal; of the people entirely that stopped it.
The Barbarians of Carthage repeatedly beat the Romans because of superior battle tactics. The Romans didn't have a smart enough General at the time (as most of the Generals were more politically minded) that could match them in battle strategy. It wasn't until Roman General Scipio came onto the scene.....did the Romans push back and clear the barbarians from their territory. Had nothing to do with burning and razing and everything to do with strategy. The Romans didn't give up, they werte just getting beat.
Dude seriously, don't rewrite history to support your belief that the destruction of physical places can break the will of a mentally thinking. It can not.
I would be inclined to agree that dropping a few nuclear weapons would force them to capitulate. But not because their precious meccs or medina is destroyed but because the millions of lives that they would see lost in less than 3 seconds....
Wars are won by three ways, gain the support of the people with in your enemy, Superior strategy/tactics, or superior firepower that can not be matched....