shrimp eater & my tank's first death

[busymom]

Well I think the photo says it all. I added a tiger pistol shrimp to my tank last night. He immediatly headed for a cave that is the 'home' to my chromis and sometimes to my serpent star. There was a little struggle when the pistol went in but he dug out a spot under one of the sides of the cave wall... About 14 hours later I happened to be looking in the tank and I see the serpent coming from a different direction looking like he does in the picture. As he got closer, I saw what it was.... I keep my camera right by the tank so I snapped 4 shots. Called the LFS where I got him to see if I should try to pull them apart? (I know it sounds stupid now, but I was in a panic) Now for my questions...
* Why??? - I didnt think that serpents would do something like that? Are they not reef safe?
* Was it actually killed by my fish - the lyre tailed chromis (black with yellow tail)- and the serpent was just doing his clean up.
* What do I do next? will I have some sort of spike? Should I try to get any remains out?
* My little tiger was so cute

and I am shooting to get a goby/pistol combo. What should I do before I try again? Does the fish or the star or both need to be traded in?
Boy this hobby is brutal.

 

[ophiura]

Yes, it is possible for them to do this with a new inhabitant. The shrimp "smelled" stressed and the star was merely following instincts.
However, as this didn't happen immediately, it is always entirely possible the shrimp died. Very very possible. How long did you acclimate? What are your water parameters - esp pH, salinity? How old is the tank?
What and how often do you feed this star?
In the future, I would add these sorts of animals to something like a critter keeper or breeder tank in the tank so they can get established and chill, and then put them down on the bottom. I would not say this is common, but it is certainly not a surprise.
I would not anticipate a spike of any sort unless the tank is young.
In addition, it should be known that "reef safe" generally refers to the fact that the animal is not likely to bother or eat corals, not necessarily other critters. IME, brittlestars and shrimp, etc can coexist...but IMO there is always a risk that the shrimp will be eaten.

 

[busymom]

I had a 2+ hour drive home from the LFS. I acclimated by floating the bag then adding about 3-4 oz of my water to the bag every 5 minutes I did this 5 times. So about 30 minutes total. My paramaters are all pretty normal. My nitrates are at 10-20 though. My salinity is 1.022 and my ph is 8.4. It is a 29 gal with 25 lb of live rock. It has been up since the first of the year. Currently I have the chromis, and the star, 4 snails (3 diff kinds), 10 hermits, an emrald crab, and a coral banded shrimp. My skimmer is probably not producing enough funk, and I have not been testing for Iodine, Phos, or calcium. I feed every evening, 2-3 flakes of aquadine. Last night for the first time I fed some frozen misis, before the pistol was added. You are right it probably was my acclimation and not them. Now I feel worse. Still scared to try him again tho but your idea of the keeper is a good one.

 

[busymom]

I should have added that I use RO water and have been doing weekly 4-5 gallon water changes. This week I did 2 of them to try to lower those nitrates.

 

[fishe1]

With invertabretes you should keep your salinity a little higher. I have mine at 1.026. These invertebrates are sensitive. Sounds like you have done a lot of water changing in a short amount of time. How many times have you seen your shrimp molt? All living organisms need nutrients from the water and doing water changes this often could or may cause new tank syndrome, JMO. What were they like before you purchased them? When you look at shrimp you can tell if they are healthy or not. IME its easier to tell if they are healthier than fish. I have only been in saltwater for 2 years but wth shrimp and other invertebrates, I believe these are some factors you need to take into consideration. I have had my cleaner shrimp for a 1 1/2 and they are more alive than ever. Maybe its the Bartlett that keeps them kicking

 

[busymom]

My coral has molted one time. So I should not change water weekly? or do you mean that the twice in one week was too much, there was 4 days between them...

 

[fishe1]

Water changes normally average once every 2 weeks, considering on the size of your tank. But if you have good filtration, then this should be norm. Some do regular water changes once a month. What type of skimmer do you have? Do you have pics of your full tank? How often are you feeding? How often are your lights on? Nitrates at 10-20 will normally not kill your coral.

 

[ophiura]

Do you ever spot feed the brittlestar, or ensure that things like shrimp pellets get to the bottom? If not, I bet that is one very hungry brittlestar. Your coral banded shrimp may also be an issue, as in small systems they can be quite aggressive toward other shrimp and even fish.
I also agree that your salinity is quite low for some of these invertebrates, and that your acclimation time could have been critical.

 

[fishychick]

What is the ideal salinity for corals? I have some leathers, xenia and zoos? Fish too.

 

[ophiura]

In general, tanks with inverts and corals ideally should be 1.025-1.026 as measured with a refractometer (not hydrometer).

 

[busymom]

I thought smaller tanks required more frequent water changes. Is 4 gal too much for one change.
My coral banded shrimp has molted once since I have had him, the pistol shrimp is the one that died. As I said, I feed once a day, 2-3 flakes in a feeding. My lights are set to be on for 10 hours per day. I have a Skilter 400, which I know (now) isn't the best but I added an airstone to its chamber and seem to be having some success with it.
I keep hearing conflicting info about acclimation, some say its best to keep it short, others want it to take hours. I dont live very near any lfs so my drive time will always be an issue. What is the "norm" for inverts as compared to fish.
Yes the serpent does come out at feeding time and nab some of the food. He often goes back in his cave before all the food is off the floor. leaving the fish and hermits to clean up the rest.
The coral banded will snap at someone if they get right in his space, but he never goes out to search someone out. atleast I guess I can say that I normally see him playing nice with the others.
Over how long a period of time should I raise the salinity? If I am now shooting for 1.025 can I mix up one stronger gal and mix it in to raise it by .001 each day??
On a seperate note. I am getting about 1 gal a week of evaporation but I am not seeing the salinity go up any. I know people say to top off with plain RO but I have not been doing that as my salinity was holding firm. I just pull out 4 gal when I do a water change and then mix up 5 gal to add back in to it. Where am I going wrong?
And here I thought I was doing pretty well at all this. You guys have been a huge help!

 

[wax32]

A water change of 4 gallons a week is just fine for your tank.
Top off your tank with RO everyday. Mark a line at the top of your tank and make sure to keep your water there.
I drip acclimate all inverts and corals for 2 hours.
A flake or two isn't enough for that serpent. Get some sort of pellets and make sure he gets some.
To raise your salinity, top off with saltwater instead of Ro until the salinity is where you want it. Do it every day, not a bunch all at once.

 

[fishychick]

Originally Posted by ophiura
In general, tanks with inverts and corals ideally should be 1.025-1.026 as measured with a refractometer (not hydrometer).

Thanks. That's probably one thing I could improve on. Since I started with Fish I was generally sticking aroung 1.022. And a refractometer costs ???????????? and is available at my lfs?????????? :cheer:

 

[wax32]

about 50 bucks from any online pet supply place. This one has them I think.

 

[fishychick]

thanks - You must be expert at this by the look of your zoos.

 

[wax32]

I read a lot anyway!

 

[fishychick]

If I don't have enough lighting, will that prevent my zoos from showing their true color. I have 75 watts of compact florescent / actinic & 120 of regular flourescent.

 

[wax32]

Yes, with a caveat: not all zoanthids are created equal... some "like" more light than others. PLUS, people vary on how they think zoanthids should look. For instance... I like the way mine look under VHO's but not under halides. Currently mine are under 665w of VHO, 5 actinic bulbs and 2 10k and I really like the way they look.

 

[fishychick]

Well, I got some online that looked flourescent blue/purple. I put them in the tank, they opened right up and I expected blue/purple. They are dull. It could have been a poor supplier, but I don't think so. I guess I should look into VHOs. Actually, I am not even sure what that stands for YET

 

[wax32]

Very High Output fluorescent.
A lot of online places take pictures of zoanthids under 20k halides with actinic supplementation and a little photoshop thrown in. All of this makes them look better than under typical PC lighting.