Shrimp vs Damsels... think about it
- Thread starter theclemsonkid
- Start date
dse
Member
Originally Posted by earlybird
http:///forum/post/2534580
I feel bad for the fish and inverts that are used for food. Or wose, the mysis shrimp that got washed down the drain because I cut off too large a chunk to feed my fish.
Lets face it, fish really belong in the ocean and were not intended to live next to my TV.
yup agreed.
but fish are just damn pretty and good to watch,
also can improve childs minds too.
http:///forum/post/2534580
I feel bad for the fish and inverts that are used for food. Or wose, the mysis shrimp that got washed down the drain because I cut off too large a chunk to feed my fish.
Lets face it, fish really belong in the ocean and were not intended to live next to my TV.
yup agreed.
but fish are just damn pretty and good to watch,
also can improve childs minds too.
perfectdark
Active Member
IMO its not feeling free of wrong doing, its the fact that its an unessesary step to cycling your tank. Alternatives that are just as effective that do not hurt any living creature. I cannot control the harvesting of shrimp, but I can control not buying a damsel to cycle my tank. We do what we can and cannot control everything. These fish are bred and captured for our enjoyment not as food source. Im sure there are many points to be made about animals being put through cruel and unnesessary processes and relate them to us in some way, but I dont agree with that either. The difference in that scenario is, I am not in control of that situation. But maybe its a bit of personal satisfaction when I can try to do what I can. When you look at it in a different way it almost sounds like animal cruelty. Your intentions arent to enjoy their suffering but, what you are doing is purposely putting them through torture for the end result to be, so you can enjoy your tank.
rot_stupid
Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2534418
Not trying to play Devils advocate here... well actually I suppose I am
But this whole "don't use damsels, use a piece of raw shrimp" thing I find rather entertaining.
It's like people feel their hands are washed clean of any wrongdoing simply because you are using a piece of shrimp?
Did you forget that once upon a time, Mr. or Mrs. Shrimp was very much alive and having a wonderful day until out of nowhere they were on a deck of some broke down old ship enjoying their last few moments of life.
Say what you want, but most damsels make it out alive, and some are even kept in the tank. I don't personally have the damsels I cycled with (yes, I'm a damsel cycler) but I have a few friends who do.
So let's just assume that 20% of the damsels who are used to cycle end up making it and living happy, skiddish lives harassing all your much bigger fish for the next five years.
At least they HAD a chance, unlike your shrimp who was a goner when you bought him at the grocery store along with the rest of the cattle, pork, and whatever other meat you deem "ok" to eat, eventhough they too suffered (and a LOT worse than your little damsel, you can take that to the bank).
I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, I just get slightly peeved when people pick and choose their fights to try and come across as "humane". When the fact is, people will always be inhumane to animals, that's kinda just how the pecking order happened to work out.
Thank you, I've actually been debating this issue in another post. I'm not saying it's a good thing to cause a Damsel to die, suffer, be tortured or whatever they want to call it. But they need to realize that it's an unfortunate part of life. Using a raw shrimp is no more humane because the ultimate outcome is the same, a living creature dies (I'm no PETA advocate either, far from it).
I just think it's ridulous that people feel that just because they aren't the one pulling the trigger, so to speak, they have no responsibilty in the creature's death. Even if the shrimp has never been free in the wild, and have been jam packed in a tank, bred for food as Morval said, is that any more humane of treatment?
And if you think shrimp are treated well then magically killed instantly and painlessly, you mistaken. They are hauled out of the water, many times in a net probably bieing crushed by tons of other fish/shrimp above them, and and die, very likely to die of suffocation, before they are cut up.
And the arguement that it's ok because they are meant for consumption, IMHO, is stupid because unless you eat that shrimp after it cycles your tank, it's not used for consumption, it was used to cycle your tank.
So just because you use shrimp instead of Damsels, or buy meat in a store instead of hunt for yourself, it doesn't make you less responsible for the death of an animal.
http:///forum/post/2534418
Not trying to play Devils advocate here... well actually I suppose I am
But this whole "don't use damsels, use a piece of raw shrimp" thing I find rather entertaining.
It's like people feel their hands are washed clean of any wrongdoing simply because you are using a piece of shrimp?
Did you forget that once upon a time, Mr. or Mrs. Shrimp was very much alive and having a wonderful day until out of nowhere they were on a deck of some broke down old ship enjoying their last few moments of life.
Say what you want, but most damsels make it out alive, and some are even kept in the tank. I don't personally have the damsels I cycled with (yes, I'm a damsel cycler) but I have a few friends who do.
So let's just assume that 20% of the damsels who are used to cycle end up making it and living happy, skiddish lives harassing all your much bigger fish for the next five years.
At least they HAD a chance, unlike your shrimp who was a goner when you bought him at the grocery store along with the rest of the cattle, pork, and whatever other meat you deem "ok" to eat, eventhough they too suffered (and a LOT worse than your little damsel, you can take that to the bank).
I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, I just get slightly peeved when people pick and choose their fights to try and come across as "humane". When the fact is, people will always be inhumane to animals, that's kinda just how the pecking order happened to work out.
Thank you, I've actually been debating this issue in another post. I'm not saying it's a good thing to cause a Damsel to die, suffer, be tortured or whatever they want to call it. But they need to realize that it's an unfortunate part of life. Using a raw shrimp is no more humane because the ultimate outcome is the same, a living creature dies (I'm no PETA advocate either, far from it).
I just think it's ridulous that people feel that just because they aren't the one pulling the trigger, so to speak, they have no responsibilty in the creature's death. Even if the shrimp has never been free in the wild, and have been jam packed in a tank, bred for food as Morval said, is that any more humane of treatment?
And if you think shrimp are treated well then magically killed instantly and painlessly, you mistaken. They are hauled out of the water, many times in a net probably bieing crushed by tons of other fish/shrimp above them, and and die, very likely to die of suffocation, before they are cut up.
And the arguement that it's ok because they are meant for consumption, IMHO, is stupid because unless you eat that shrimp after it cycles your tank, it's not used for consumption, it was used to cycle your tank.
So just because you use shrimp instead of Damsels, or buy meat in a store instead of hunt for yourself, it doesn't make you less responsible for the death of an animal.
T
tizzo
Guest
Originally Posted by rot_stupid
http:///forum/post/2534623
So just because you use shrimp instead of Damsels, or buy meat in a store instead of hunt for yourself, it doesn't make you less responsible for the death of an animal.
OK, I'll bite.
By this statement are you saying that if every aquarist that cycles with fish, if we agree to no longer do this, then less shrimp will be caught, and that many less shrimp will end up at the seafood counter??
I thought seafood industries were paid by the lb.
OK, Let's say your right, then how should we cycle to be completely humane. Cause as far as I know, something died to start the bacteria on the LR, and something has to die to become fish food, be it flake or frozen.
So, so that nothing is "my fault" that it has to die, how would you recommend I start my cycle?
(This is still IMO, just fun debate.)
This is one of those topics that can go back and forth forever. So, my replies are only to elicit deeper answers, not to argue.
http:///forum/post/2534623
So just because you use shrimp instead of Damsels, or buy meat in a store instead of hunt for yourself, it doesn't make you less responsible for the death of an animal.
OK, I'll bite.
By this statement are you saying that if every aquarist that cycles with fish, if we agree to no longer do this, then less shrimp will be caught, and that many less shrimp will end up at the seafood counter??
I thought seafood industries were paid by the lb.
OK, Let's say your right, then how should we cycle to be completely humane. Cause as far as I know, something died to start the bacteria on the LR, and something has to die to become fish food, be it flake or frozen.
So, so that nothing is "my fault" that it has to die, how would you recommend I start my cycle?
(This is still IMO, just fun debate.)
This is one of those topics that can go back and forth forever. So, my replies are only to elicit deeper answers, not to argue.
crimzy
Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2534418
Not trying to play Devils advocate here... well actually I suppose I am
But this whole "don't use damsels, use a piece of raw shrimp" thing I find rather entertaining.
It's like people feel their hands are washed clean of any wrongdoing simply because you are using a piece of shrimp?
Did you forget that once upon a time, Mr. or Mrs. Shrimp was very much alive and having a wonderful day until out of nowhere they were on a deck of some broke down old ship enjoying their last few moments of life.
Say what you want, but most damsels make it out alive, and some are even kept in the tank. I don't personally have the damsels I cycled with (yes, I'm a damsel cycler) but I have a few friends who do.
So let's just assume that 20% of the damsels who are used to cycle end up making it and living happy, skiddish lives harassing all your much bigger fish for the next five years.
At least they HAD a chance, unlike your shrimp who was a goner when you bought him at the grocery store along with the rest of the cattle, pork, and whatever other meat you deem "ok" to eat, eventhough they too suffered (and a LOT worse than your little damsel, you can take that to the bank).
I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, I just get slightly peeved when people pick and choose their fights to try and come across as "humane". When the fact is, people will always be inhumane to animals, that's kinda just how the pecking order happened to work out.
Just to play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate... I agree whole-heartedly with your logic except that I'm going to take it a step further. I'm going to cycle my new tank with a snowflake eel, tomato clown and volitan lion. What do you think?
http:///forum/post/2534418
Not trying to play Devils advocate here... well actually I suppose I am
But this whole "don't use damsels, use a piece of raw shrimp" thing I find rather entertaining.
It's like people feel their hands are washed clean of any wrongdoing simply because you are using a piece of shrimp?
Did you forget that once upon a time, Mr. or Mrs. Shrimp was very much alive and having a wonderful day until out of nowhere they were on a deck of some broke down old ship enjoying their last few moments of life.
Say what you want, but most damsels make it out alive, and some are even kept in the tank. I don't personally have the damsels I cycled with (yes, I'm a damsel cycler) but I have a few friends who do.
So let's just assume that 20% of the damsels who are used to cycle end up making it and living happy, skiddish lives harassing all your much bigger fish for the next five years.
At least they HAD a chance, unlike your shrimp who was a goner when you bought him at the grocery store along with the rest of the cattle, pork, and whatever other meat you deem "ok" to eat, eventhough they too suffered (and a LOT worse than your little damsel, you can take that to the bank).
I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, I just get slightly peeved when people pick and choose their fights to try and come across as "humane". When the fact is, people will always be inhumane to animals, that's kinda just how the pecking order happened to work out.
Just to play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate... I agree whole-heartedly with your logic except that I'm going to take it a step further. I'm going to cycle my new tank with a snowflake eel, tomato clown and volitan lion. What do you think?
bang guy
Moderator
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2534704
So, so that nothing is "my fault" that it has to die, how would you recommend I start my cycle?
Pee into your tank.
A few drops a day should be all that is needed.
http:///forum/post/2534704
So, so that nothing is "my fault" that it has to die, how would you recommend I start my cycle?
Pee into your tank.
A few drops a day should be all that is needed.
T
tizzo
Guest
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2534755
Pee into your tank.
A few drops a day should be all that is needed.
I'm on it. And I will recommend it as well!
http:///forum/post/2534755
Pee into your tank.
A few drops a day should be all that is needed.
I'm on it. And I will recommend it as well!
morval
Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2534755
Pee into your tank.
A few drops a day should be all that is needed.
do u know haow many oranges have to die to make juice ?
or grapes give there life to make wine ?
or how much water has to be...uh...ummmm....just so u can pee in ur tank !
ok really tho anything thats alive will die somehow if u enjoy being the imediate cause so be it.
none of it really matters anyhow...just wait a few billion years till the sun expands enveloping earth and all life ends.
http:///forum/post/2534755
Pee into your tank.
A few drops a day should be all that is needed.
do u know haow many oranges have to die to make juice ?
or grapes give there life to make wine ?
or how much water has to be...uh...ummmm....just so u can pee in ur tank !
ok really tho anything thats alive will die somehow if u enjoy being the imediate cause so be it.
none of it really matters anyhow...just wait a few billion years till the sun expands enveloping earth and all life ends.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by dse
http:///forum/post/2534551
ill be honest im doing damsel cycle now A it's good for my son to see the fish 2 i dont have a clue on shrimp cycle so im never gonna do it as i dont want any thing dead rotting in my tank.
3 i dont wat to stink my house out i ave a 1 year old and a new born.
3 fish cycle has been done for hundreds of years on all styles of tanks setups.
4 i dont put fish in till 3 weeks and ill only put one-four in depending on size of fish to tank.
5 i dont see why people get upset about this thread as it has actually just help me understand a few things tbh.
its lke comparing how to place rocks and plants in tanks and weather to use plastics/synthetics or natural.
how many use LR?
if you use LR and you use shrimp cycle and moan about damsel users please be awear of the damege and rareness of LR is becoming.
your doing just as much damege buy LR then a damsel cycle just think about it before criting people.
but like i said everyone chooses there own path on how to cycle and to proceed their tank to how they like it.
Without meaning to be argumenitive, let me address your points:
1 (A): I would argue possibly seeing the fish die is not good for your son. Certainly as he gets older you are going to want to teach him responsible aquarium keeping. That, of course, includes properly choosing fish, providing proper habitat, etc. Further, children live waaay toooo much today in an "instant" society. A little lesson in patience is a great thing.
2. There are probably many things you don't know about in this hobby. Heck, I probably learn something new everyday. If you don't know something, I would suggest researching and learning about it. Don't simply shun it because you don't know anything about it. The shrimp cycle is simply putting a piece of cocktail shrimp in the tank to provide Ammonia to kick off the cycle. When you feed a Damsel and it produces waste it does the exact same thing. If you keep a SW aquarium you are going to have "things rotting". Fish waste, bits of fish food, etc. No reason it should make your house stink.
3. That's just not true at all. The earliest hobbyists had no understanding of the "cycle" process. How many millions fo fish have died so that we could better understand this hobby?
4. If you are going to wait 3 weeks anyway add a bit of fish food (or piece of shrimp), start the cycle, and go from there...
5. Live rock is a renewable resource. In fact, if harvested properly, live rock can preserve the reef by providing an alternative income source for Pacific Islands that otherwise might allow over fishing, slash and burn farming, etc.
http:///forum/post/2534551
ill be honest im doing damsel cycle now A it's good for my son to see the fish 2 i dont have a clue on shrimp cycle so im never gonna do it as i dont want any thing dead rotting in my tank.
3 i dont wat to stink my house out i ave a 1 year old and a new born.
3 fish cycle has been done for hundreds of years on all styles of tanks setups.
4 i dont put fish in till 3 weeks and ill only put one-four in depending on size of fish to tank.
5 i dont see why people get upset about this thread as it has actually just help me understand a few things tbh.
its lke comparing how to place rocks and plants in tanks and weather to use plastics/synthetics or natural.
how many use LR?
if you use LR and you use shrimp cycle and moan about damsel users please be awear of the damege and rareness of LR is becoming.
your doing just as much damege buy LR then a damsel cycle just think about it before criting people.
but like i said everyone chooses there own path on how to cycle and to proceed their tank to how they like it.
Without meaning to be argumenitive, let me address your points:
1 (A): I would argue possibly seeing the fish die is not good for your son. Certainly as he gets older you are going to want to teach him responsible aquarium keeping. That, of course, includes properly choosing fish, providing proper habitat, etc. Further, children live waaay toooo much today in an "instant" society. A little lesson in patience is a great thing.
2. There are probably many things you don't know about in this hobby. Heck, I probably learn something new everyday. If you don't know something, I would suggest researching and learning about it. Don't simply shun it because you don't know anything about it. The shrimp cycle is simply putting a piece of cocktail shrimp in the tank to provide Ammonia to kick off the cycle. When you feed a Damsel and it produces waste it does the exact same thing. If you keep a SW aquarium you are going to have "things rotting". Fish waste, bits of fish food, etc. No reason it should make your house stink.
3. That's just not true at all. The earliest hobbyists had no understanding of the "cycle" process. How many millions fo fish have died so that we could better understand this hobby?
4. If you are going to wait 3 weeks anyway add a bit of fish food (or piece of shrimp), start the cycle, and go from there...
5. Live rock is a renewable resource. In fact, if harvested properly, live rock can preserve the reef by providing an alternative income source for Pacific Islands that otherwise might allow over fishing, slash and burn farming, etc.
T
tizzo
Guest
Originally Posted by dse
http:///forum/post/2534792
yeah in a billion years there will be no actual LR= less or even no fish that excist to day.
so lets end this as it's getting a bit to mad here...
Nobody is mad... Least I don't think.
I am hoping were all just posting ideas.
Practice according to your own researched beliefs, and all is well.
But threads such as these are how the research starts.
We are all just throwing out our ideas.
http:///forum/post/2534792
so lets end this as it's getting a bit to mad here...
Nobody is mad... Least I don't think.
I am hoping were all just posting ideas.
Practice according to your own researched beliefs, and all is well.
But threads such as these are how the research starts.
We are all just throwing out our ideas.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by dse
http:///forum/post/2534792
yeah in a billion years there will be no actual LR= less or even no fish that excist to day.
so lets end this as it's getting a bit to mad here...
Again, that's not really a true statement at all. I live in North Texas. I can go down to creek beds here and find evidence of sea creatures millions of years old.
The oceans have risen and fallen, warmed and cooled, who knows how many times. Contemplate where much of "dry" rock comes from, limestone beds, etc. There is countless evidence of long extinct reefs to be seen today well out of the ocean's current reach. Yet, we still have reefs.
http:///forum/post/2534792
so lets end this as it's getting a bit to mad here...
Again, that's not really a true statement at all. I live in North Texas. I can go down to creek beds here and find evidence of sea creatures millions of years old.
The oceans have risen and fallen, warmed and cooled, who knows how many times. Contemplate where much of "dry" rock comes from, limestone beds, etc. There is countless evidence of long extinct reefs to be seen today well out of the ocean's current reach. Yet, we still have reefs.
sk8shorty01
Active Member
I have been watching this thread for a while now and I have to say that there have been some rather interesting points brought up so far. I too have used a damsel at one point, and I agree it is torture, and it is certainly bad for the fish no matter what way you look at it. The cocktail shrimp is probably a better way to go about it because the shrimp suffered a lot less than the damsel did, considering it might be in the air for 10 minutes suffocation, where the damsel is breathing poisoness fumes from the water for no less than four weeks. I use the shrimp method now, and actually I just use a few of the shrimp tails after I eat the rest of the shrimp. It still accomplishes the same thing but you are just going to throw away that part anyways. There is one thing I wanted to point out because I dont know that this statement is completely true...
Originally Posted by Horsin1963
http:///forum/post/2534487
but when you think about it. using something thats its allready dead something that you dont have to personaly torture on your own part is a much more humane way.
In my opinion I doubt the animal being tortured cares who is torturing it, the animal is still being treated in-humanely. I would say that it might make you feel less guilty (not pointed at the quoted person, this is to everyone) about it, but you still know that it is happening so is this really any better? I am by no means an animal rights activist as I do hunt, fish, and have an aquarium (dead fish happen here and there on occassion, but my percentages are getting a lot better haha). This is kind of a similar statement to the people that boycott or parade in front of an animal shelter that participates in the killing of some animals within the facility. They say that a better alternative is to bring the animal to one of the "no-kill" shelters, but what do you think they do with the animals? These shelters, more time than not, will send the animals off to the other shelters when they have been there too long, and those other shelters kill them. They are just sending the problem somewhere else and are washing their hands of it, but yet it is still a problem.
I never really gave the shrimp torture idea any thought before, but it does make sense. Just because it suffered less doesnt mean that it is any better, because it still suffers. Again, I am just in the friendly debate as well, and I am not trying to point fingers or say one way is right, and one is wrong, because in 10 years there will be more information and better technology than there is in the hobby now, and things will probably be different then as well (but still probably not better for all parties).
Originally Posted by Horsin1963
http:///forum/post/2534487
but when you think about it. using something thats its allready dead something that you dont have to personaly torture on your own part is a much more humane way.
In my opinion I doubt the animal being tortured cares who is torturing it, the animal is still being treated in-humanely. I would say that it might make you feel less guilty (not pointed at the quoted person, this is to everyone) about it, but you still know that it is happening so is this really any better? I am by no means an animal rights activist as I do hunt, fish, and have an aquarium (dead fish happen here and there on occassion, but my percentages are getting a lot better haha). This is kind of a similar statement to the people that boycott or parade in front of an animal shelter that participates in the killing of some animals within the facility. They say that a better alternative is to bring the animal to one of the "no-kill" shelters, but what do you think they do with the animals? These shelters, more time than not, will send the animals off to the other shelters when they have been there too long, and those other shelters kill them. They are just sending the problem somewhere else and are washing their hands of it, but yet it is still a problem.
I never really gave the shrimp torture idea any thought before, but it does make sense. Just because it suffered less doesnt mean that it is any better, because it still suffers. Again, I am just in the friendly debate as well, and I am not trying to point fingers or say one way is right, and one is wrong, because in 10 years there will be more information and better technology than there is in the hobby now, and things will probably be different then as well (but still probably not better for all parties).
theclemsonkid
Member
Ahh I start a thread and then leave for a few hours and look at what happens 
Anyways, I appreciate all the responses that you guys have thrown up here, I think that it's always nice to have some open perspective on things, I really do.
After reading all the posts, I have to say more than anything I agree with the above poster.
Whether you use a damsel, a shrimp, or anything else that "dies", you are killing something to cycle your tank.
The whole reason I started this thread was because I get annoyed when I hear people say "Never cycle your tank with a damsel! Always use raw shrimp!"
They always suggest this as if somehow you are preserving life, and saving this poor animal a slow, painful death by using the shrimp.
Which is all good and dandy, except the SHRIMP IS KILLED TOO!
You use the damsel, you will probably kill it. Which is in essence the EXACT SAME THING that happened to the shrimp, only you didn't do the dirty work yourself.
I just feel like its the classic case of the kettle and the pot...
Anyways, I appreciate all the responses that you guys have thrown up here, I think that it's always nice to have some open perspective on things, I really do.
After reading all the posts, I have to say more than anything I agree with the above poster.
Whether you use a damsel, a shrimp, or anything else that "dies", you are killing something to cycle your tank.
The whole reason I started this thread was because I get annoyed when I hear people say "Never cycle your tank with a damsel! Always use raw shrimp!"
They always suggest this as if somehow you are preserving life, and saving this poor animal a slow, painful death by using the shrimp.
Which is all good and dandy, except the SHRIMP IS KILLED TOO!
You use the damsel, you will probably kill it. Which is in essence the EXACT SAME THING that happened to the shrimp, only you didn't do the dirty work yourself.
I just feel like its the classic case of the kettle and the pot...
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2535011
...
The whole reason I started this thread was because I get annoyed when I hear people say "Never cycle your tank with a damsel! Always use raw shrimp!"...
I'll still say that; In fact it is in my Sig.
The "torture" is but a small part overall. As I pointed out, there is the issue of disease, parasites, and catching the little monsters later if they survive.
Let's not also forget Damsels are primarily captured and sold for new tanks. If we stop buying them for this purpose maybe there won't be quite so many of them harvested in the wild anymore.
http:///forum/post/2535011
...
The whole reason I started this thread was because I get annoyed when I hear people say "Never cycle your tank with a damsel! Always use raw shrimp!"...
I'll still say that; In fact it is in my Sig.
The "torture" is but a small part overall. As I pointed out, there is the issue of disease, parasites, and catching the little monsters later if they survive.
Let's not also forget Damsels are primarily captured and sold for new tanks. If we stop buying them for this purpose maybe there won't be quite so many of them harvested in the wild anymore.
perfectdark
Active Member
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid
http:///forum/post/2535011
Ahh I start a thread and then leave for a few hours and look at what happens
Anyways, I appreciate all the responses that you guys have thrown up here, I think that it's always nice to have some open perspective on things, I really do.
After reading all the posts, I have to say more than anything I agree with the above poster.
Whether you use a damsel, a shrimp, or anything else that "dies", you are killing something to cycle your tank.
The whole reason I started this thread was because I get annoyed when I hear people say "Never cycle your tank with a damsel! Always use raw shrimp!"
They always suggest this as if somehow you are preserving life, and saving this poor animal a slow, painful death by using the shrimp.
Which is all good and dandy, except the SHRIMP IS KILLED TOO!
You use the damsel, you will probably kill it. Which is in essence the EXACT SAME THING that happened to the shrimp, only you didn't do the dirty work yourself.
I just feel like its the classic case of the kettle and the pot...
I absoultly do not agree, the choice is taken out of your equation, and that IMO makes all the difference in the world. You choose to use the damsel, you didnt make the choice to kill the shrimp. Animals harvested for food IMO cannot be classified under the torture method used to cycle a tank with a fish. My opinion would be different if shrimp were harvested and killed exclusivly to cycle our tanks. JMO
http:///forum/post/2535011
Ahh I start a thread and then leave for a few hours and look at what happens
Anyways, I appreciate all the responses that you guys have thrown up here, I think that it's always nice to have some open perspective on things, I really do.
After reading all the posts, I have to say more than anything I agree with the above poster.
Whether you use a damsel, a shrimp, or anything else that "dies", you are killing something to cycle your tank.
The whole reason I started this thread was because I get annoyed when I hear people say "Never cycle your tank with a damsel! Always use raw shrimp!"
They always suggest this as if somehow you are preserving life, and saving this poor animal a slow, painful death by using the shrimp.
Which is all good and dandy, except the SHRIMP IS KILLED TOO!
You use the damsel, you will probably kill it. Which is in essence the EXACT SAME THING that happened to the shrimp, only you didn't do the dirty work yourself.
I just feel like its the classic case of the kettle and the pot...
I absoultly do not agree, the choice is taken out of your equation, and that IMO makes all the difference in the world. You choose to use the damsel, you didnt make the choice to kill the shrimp. Animals harvested for food IMO cannot be classified under the torture method used to cycle a tank with a fish. My opinion would be different if shrimp were harvested and killed exclusivly to cycle our tanks. JMO
dse
Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2534827
Again, that's not really a true statement at all. I live in North Texas. I can go down to creek beds here and find evidence of sea creatures millions of years old.
The oceans have risen and fallen, warmed and cooled, who knows how many times. Contemplate where much of "dry" rock comes from, limestone beds, etc. There is countless evidence of long extinct reefs to be seen today well out of the ocean's current reach. Yet, we still have reefs.
but we havent been pulling LR for millions of years or been using trawlers.
both of these are on the up rise in the uk the is a mass petition to try to calm down trawling and theres a petition in my town just before xamas to stop taking excessive ammounts of LR.
and at our rate of damge to sea beds and homes of fish we wont have anything left.
in uk we are using boats to give new homes for fish we are taking boats out to sea annd blowing them up so fish can make homes out of them.
why.
cos its getting bad.
same will be for all over the world too.
so yes it is a true statement.......
http:///forum/post/2534827
Again, that's not really a true statement at all. I live in North Texas. I can go down to creek beds here and find evidence of sea creatures millions of years old.
The oceans have risen and fallen, warmed and cooled, who knows how many times. Contemplate where much of "dry" rock comes from, limestone beds, etc. There is countless evidence of long extinct reefs to be seen today well out of the ocean's current reach. Yet, we still have reefs.
but we havent been pulling LR for millions of years or been using trawlers.
both of these are on the up rise in the uk the is a mass petition to try to calm down trawling and theres a petition in my town just before xamas to stop taking excessive ammounts of LR.
and at our rate of damge to sea beds and homes of fish we wont have anything left.
in uk we are using boats to give new homes for fish we are taking boats out to sea annd blowing them up so fish can make homes out of them.
why.
cos its getting bad.
same will be for all over the world too.
so yes it is a true statement.......
T
tizzo
Guest
They do the boat thing here in florida too... ONly it's not to give them a new home. It's to attract them to an easy place to spe.ar fish. Dropping boats for that reason is not legal here, but it's done. I kinda wonder if it's being done with good intentions there.
Why in the world would s.p.e.a.r be a spam word...
and the LR here, was dumped as dead dry rubble, then removed 2 years later. It was not part of an established reef so to speak.
Why in the world would s.p.e.a.r be a spam word...
and the LR here, was dumped as dead dry rubble, then removed 2 years later. It was not part of an established reef so to speak.